God and the nature of evil
-
Paul Selormey wrote:
Wow, very impressive!
Looks like you can fool some of the sheeple all of the time...
The Apocalyptic Teacup wrote:
Looks like you can fool some of the sheeple all of the time...
Score: 2.3(3 votes) Truth hurts, doesn't it plebs? :laugh:
-
pdohara wrote:
evil as evil is not a thing. Evil is the absence of good
I disagree with this. I believe the absense of good is apathy: someone who lacks the will to do anything but sit on their ass and watch Wife Swap is neither good nor evil. Evil is an active thing; just as hate is not merely the absense of love, you cannot say evil is the absense of good. The monster who killed the girls at the Amish school had something seriously wrong with him that went way beyond "not good." Of course, God didn't create any of it (including evil, as you said), but that's because there is no God. At least, not a God in the form we've been led by the nose to believe. But that's outside the scope of this discussion.
Good and evil are determined by observers after the deed is done. Thus, they are subjective. What if someone didn't take action because they felt that the deed needed to be done for a greater good.
David Kentley wrote:
Evil is an active thing; just as hate is not merely the absense of love, you cannot say evil is the absense of good. The monster who killed the girls at the Amish school had something seriously wrong with him that went way beyond "not good."
Although I agree with this, I am going to play devil's advocate. What if that person was sick and didn't know what he was doing? What if he was drugged or hypnotized to kill? What if he aliens (yes I know one in a million to the power a million chance, but still) forced him to do so? What if he had a disease that attacked his nervous system and made him not see right from wrong? Unfortunately, this was not one of those cases, but it isn't always easy to describe good vs. bad. Pro-choice/anti-abortion is the perfect example of such a thing.
"I know which side I want to win regardless of how many wrongs they have to commit to achieve it." - Stan Shannon Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn
-
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Was my reply to you considered good or evil?
You were not responding to my post.
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
It's practically impossible to argue with blind faith....
Please keep to the topic. Robots do not have any sense of their own and God did not create us to be robots, and we therefore have a choice to choose Him or not. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
You were not responding to my post.
:doh: Now I can ask the question.
Paul Selormey wrote:
Robots do not have any sense of their own and God did not create us to be robots, and we therefore have a choice to choose Him or not.
I choose freedom. I choose not to be afraid. In other words, I choose to be good because I want to, not because some book says that some guy claimed to be the son of some omnipotent spirit we've never perceived, and who will supposedly judge and sentence us upon death.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. - Aristotle
-
This is a response to the comment that God created evil in the lounge[^] God did not create evil as evil is not a thing. Evil is the absence of good, or the absence of God. God limits himself to allow evil, but he did not create it. God allows evil so people can have free will. Free will is the expression of choice. If there were only good there would be no choice. Getting back to evil not being a thing, think of it like darkness. Scientists don't study darkness, because it does not exist. Light exists, has properties, can be studied. What we call darkness is simply an area where there is little or no light. Likewise evil is the absence of good.
Tanks for your support
Pat O
Blog_ _ _
/*\== /*\== /*\==
<ooo> <ooo> <ooo>You're right, the Bible says that God makes evil, but He does it by defining good.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
-
Paul Selormey wrote:
You were not responding to my post.
:doh: Now I can ask the question.
Paul Selormey wrote:
Robots do not have any sense of their own and God did not create us to be robots, and we therefore have a choice to choose Him or not.
I choose freedom. I choose not to be afraid. In other words, I choose to be good because I want to, not because some book says that some guy claimed to be the son of some omnipotent spirit we've never perceived, and who will supposedly judge and sentence us upon death.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. - Aristotle
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
I choose freedom. I choose not to be afraid. In other words...
Fine, that answers your earlier post...
OK, but by allowing it to happen, isn't God an accomplice to it?
YOU have chosen what you call freedom (which actually depends on knowledge), and have full responsibility. Jesus Christ only knocks, you have the right to allow Him in or not. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
-
You're right, the Bible says that God makes evil, but He does it by defining good.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Here's a serious question, and hopefully the trolls will stay away. How do you reconcile (you, personally) the problem of evil[^] contained in Christianity? Just interested in your opinion and not a prolonged debate.
-
Here's a serious question, and hopefully the trolls will stay away. How do you reconcile (you, personally) the problem of evil[^] contained in Christianity? Just interested in your opinion and not a prolonged debate.
I don't see it as a problem at all. God has created everything and defined good. His existence doesn't mean there cannot be evil, or suffering.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
-
I don't see it as a problem at all. God has created everything and defined good. His existence doesn't mean there cannot be evil, or suffering.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
His existence doesn't mean there cannot be evil, or suffering.
This was the point I would hope you address. Why does his existence imply that evil can exist if he is an omnipotent and benevolent being? My line of thinking on it would be to ask why the Christian God would allow the people he created in his image to suffer from one of his creations - evil. To me, maybe you differ in your opinion, that would seem to indicate that something he created was flawed: ie: evil. I know that this goes back to the ejection of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, but to me, if God created everything, then he also created evil and that is the problem I cannot seem to resolve (as per the link I gave you). It seems to be a very fundamental topic in theology and most have had trouble reconciling it - none the least of which is the Catholic church. Now, I know you don't accept the Catholic Church, but how do you reconcile the creation of evil by God? Again, not looking for a fight here, just an honest back and forth with you. I can't seem to find many people willing to discuss the problem.
-
Christian Graus wrote:
His existence doesn't mean there cannot be evil, or suffering.
This was the point I would hope you address. Why does his existence imply that evil can exist if he is an omnipotent and benevolent being? My line of thinking on it would be to ask why the Christian God would allow the people he created in his image to suffer from one of his creations - evil. To me, maybe you differ in your opinion, that would seem to indicate that something he created was flawed: ie: evil. I know that this goes back to the ejection of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, but to me, if God created everything, then he also created evil and that is the problem I cannot seem to resolve (as per the link I gave you). It seems to be a very fundamental topic in theology and most have had trouble reconciling it - none the least of which is the Catholic church. Now, I know you don't accept the Catholic Church, but how do you reconcile the creation of evil by God? Again, not looking for a fight here, just an honest back and forth with you. I can't seem to find many people willing to discuss the problem.
Evil wasn't created by God but by one of His creations. "Omnipotence" is incorrectly attributed to God in that, through His omnipotence, he created beings with free will that are capable of dissent.
-
Christian Graus wrote:
His existence doesn't mean there cannot be evil, or suffering.
This was the point I would hope you address. Why does his existence imply that evil can exist if he is an omnipotent and benevolent being? My line of thinking on it would be to ask why the Christian God would allow the people he created in his image to suffer from one of his creations - evil. To me, maybe you differ in your opinion, that would seem to indicate that something he created was flawed: ie: evil. I know that this goes back to the ejection of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, but to me, if God created everything, then he also created evil and that is the problem I cannot seem to resolve (as per the link I gave you). It seems to be a very fundamental topic in theology and most have had trouble reconciling it - none the least of which is the Catholic church. Now, I know you don't accept the Catholic Church, but how do you reconcile the creation of evil by God? Again, not looking for a fight here, just an honest back and forth with you. I can't seem to find many people willing to discuss the problem.
The real question is "Is freewill a good thing?" Essentially the question comes down to does the value of freewill justify God allowing evil? Again as I said in my original post God did not "create" evil, but he allows it by limiting himself. If God did not limit himself, then we would not have freewill, there would be only good. There would be essentially only God. As humans we would like to think that we could have freewill without there being the possibility of evil. But what would that look like. If I can only do good, then I can only do God's will (which is the Biblical definition of good). At that point I no longer have a will, but am subject to God's will. Does that help?
Tanks for your support
Pat O
Blog_ _ _
/*\== /*\== /*\==
<ooo> <ooo> <ooo>