Netscape....Where do I begin...?
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Usually I really try to keep a positive attitude about things, until I recently ran into a problem of sorting a table of data without posting back to the server. This was completely possible through IE, however as soon as I checked it in Netscape nothing happened. Wow, what a big surprise. This has left me looking into other options to sort my data (one must never fail to complete the project), however I really am skeptical as to the purpose of not forcing a standard across the board for web browsers. How do you feel? Nick Parker
When you are doing web projects you must consider netscape and IE as two different entities, almost as different as Win32 and Linux [in a way] Our design team has had considerable problems with nested tables in netscape. And the fonts always always look better on IE. No one has figured out why! Nish [Signature temporarily down]
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Usually I really try to keep a positive attitude about things, until I recently ran into a problem of sorting a table of data without posting back to the server. This was completely possible through IE, however as soon as I checked it in Netscape nothing happened. Wow, what a big surprise. This has left me looking into other options to sort my data (one must never fail to complete the project), however I really am skeptical as to the purpose of not forcing a standard across the board for web browsers. How do you feel? Nick Parker
Ignore netscape and it will go away. Seriously: consider how many readers you have using netscape, and whether the huge cost of trying to a) get pages to look halfway decent b) get pages to load without netscape crashing c) adding graceful degredation to anything vaguely DHTMLish is worth it. Netscape have had 5 years to get their act together and I seriously doubt they ever will. They even stated last year they were no longer in the browser business. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Ignore netscape and it will go away. Seriously: consider how many readers you have using netscape, and whether the huge cost of trying to a) get pages to look halfway decent b) get pages to load without netscape crashing c) adding graceful degredation to anything vaguely DHTMLish is worth it. Netscape have had 5 years to get their act together and I seriously doubt they ever will. They even stated last year they were no longer in the browser business. cheers, Chris Maunder
What I never fully understood was how a pixel could be a different size in Netscape (or in IE - depending on your outlook). Anyone trying to make frames the look the same in bot browsers will know exaxtly what I mean. "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Usually I really try to keep a positive attitude about things, until I recently ran into a problem of sorting a table of data without posting back to the server. This was completely possible through IE, however as soon as I checked it in Netscape nothing happened. Wow, what a big surprise. This has left me looking into other options to sort my data (one must never fail to complete the project), however I really am skeptical as to the purpose of not forcing a standard across the board for web browsers. How do you feel? Nick Parker
FiretrUCK NETSCAPE Jon Sagara What about :bob:? Sonork ID: 100.9999 jonsagara
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Ignore netscape and it will go away. Seriously: consider how many readers you have using netscape, and whether the huge cost of trying to a) get pages to look halfway decent b) get pages to load without netscape crashing c) adding graceful degredation to anything vaguely DHTMLish is worth it. Netscape have had 5 years to get their act together and I seriously doubt they ever will. They even stated last year they were no longer in the browser business. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: They even stated last year they were no longer in the browser business. Chris, is this documented anywhere that I can read about it? Thanks :) Nick Parker
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FiretrUCK NETSCAPE Jon Sagara What about :bob:? Sonork ID: 100.9999 jonsagara
Jon Sagara wrote: FiretrUCK NETSCAPE is that a disguised Fuck Netscape sign? Nish [Signature temporarily down]
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Jon Sagara wrote: FiretrUCK NETSCAPE is that a disguised Fuck Netscape sign? Nish [Signature temporarily down]
What does it look like? Jon Sagara What about :bob:? Sonork ID: 100.9999 jonsagara
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What does it look like? Jon Sagara What about :bob:? Sonork ID: 100.9999 jonsagara
Jon Sagara wrote: What does it look like? :-O :-O :-O Nish [Signature temporarily down]
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Usually I really try to keep a positive attitude about things, until I recently ran into a problem of sorting a table of data without posting back to the server. This was completely possible through IE, however as soon as I checked it in Netscape nothing happened. Wow, what a big surprise. This has left me looking into other options to sort my data (one must never fail to complete the project), however I really am skeptical as to the purpose of not forcing a standard across the board for web browsers. How do you feel? Nick Parker
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When you are doing web projects you must consider netscape and IE as two different entities, almost as different as Win32 and Linux [in a way] Our design team has had considerable problems with nested tables in netscape. And the fonts always always look better on IE. No one has figured out why! Nish [Signature temporarily down]
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Our design team has had considerable problems with nested tables in netscape. And the fonts always always look better on IE. No one has figured out why! Maybe it is a better browser ? (Font anti aliasing is a good hint, too) Crivo Automated Credit Assessment
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Our design team has had considerable problems with nested tables in netscape. And the fonts always always look better on IE. No one has figured out why! Maybe it is a better browser ? (Font anti aliasing is a good hint, too) Crivo Automated Credit Assessment
Daniel Turini wrote: Maybe it is a better browser ? (Font anti aliasing is a good hint, too) Uh yeah. That sounds astoundingly plausible. [Signature temporarily down]
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Chris Maunder wrote: They even stated last year they were no longer in the browser business. Chris, is this documented anywhere that I can read about it? Thanks :) Nick Parker
The original articles have gone. Here's an article on the article that quashes the rumour and slap me down for my poor memory: Netscape quits? cheers, Chris Maunder
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The original articles have gone. Here's an article on the article that quashes the rumour and slap me down for my poor memory: Netscape quits? cheers, Chris Maunder
Thanks Chris, just read through all the "rumors" and finally I made it to the end with a link that actually worked off that site(all other sites had been expired). So here is the link that provides some insight as to whether Netscape is out of the business. One caveat, this article is rather vague too. Netscape Out Of Business Nick Parker
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Usually I really try to keep a positive attitude about things, until I recently ran into a problem of sorting a table of data without posting back to the server. This was completely possible through IE, however as soon as I checked it in Netscape nothing happened. Wow, what a big surprise. This has left me looking into other options to sort my data (one must never fail to complete the project), however I really am skeptical as to the purpose of not forcing a standard across the board for web browsers. How do you feel? Nick Parker
Nick Parker wrote: How do you feel? Fffffffffffffffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk Nutscraper. That is how I feel about standards and Netscape. MS may be a bully but no matter what anyone says they produced one shit hot browser that Netscape 4 simply could not compete with. Netscape 6 is pretty good and works as intended. Netscape 4 though... well lets just say I would sleep with Bill Gates if it meant every Netscape 4 user suddenly, magically got IE 5.5 or higher installed on their machines and used it. It has cause me problems than any other aspect in computing, period. Not even clients are as troublesome as Netscape 4. At least with clients you can tell them to sod off. Netscape 4 just hangs around and wont let go. To anyone who uses Netscape 4 and keeps it on the charts: Please die right this instant and come back as a web developer. Netscape can suck my purple headed warrior! (thanks for the liberties John) this is a rant and rave forum, so I ranted and raved regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Nick Parker wrote: How do you feel? Fffffffffffffffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk Nutscraper. That is how I feel about standards and Netscape. MS may be a bully but no matter what anyone says they produced one shit hot browser that Netscape 4 simply could not compete with. Netscape 6 is pretty good and works as intended. Netscape 4 though... well lets just say I would sleep with Bill Gates if it meant every Netscape 4 user suddenly, magically got IE 5.5 or higher installed on their machines and used it. It has cause me problems than any other aspect in computing, period. Not even clients are as troublesome as Netscape 4. At least with clients you can tell them to sod off. Netscape 4 just hangs around and wont let go. To anyone who uses Netscape 4 and keeps it on the charts: Please die right this instant and come back as a web developer. Netscape can suck my purple headed warrior! (thanks for the liberties John) this is a rant and rave forum, so I ranted and raved regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
This is really great, but I do have one question then: Aside from Microsoft dominating yet another software realm (big deal anymore) what is the purpose of even keeping Netscape around? What are they doing when they release new versions of their browser? Are they just fixing errors from before? Why Oh Why couldn't their browser become corrupt when Y2K came around, wouldn't that have been a more reasonable solution I ask. I know that was more than one question, but can you blame me? Nick Parker
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This is really great, but I do have one question then: Aside from Microsoft dominating yet another software realm (big deal anymore) what is the purpose of even keeping Netscape around? What are they doing when they release new versions of their browser? Are they just fixing errors from before? Why Oh Why couldn't their browser become corrupt when Y2K came around, wouldn't that have been a more reasonable solution I ask. I know that was more than one question, but can you blame me? Nick Parker
Nick Parker wrote: This is really great, LOL, I thought I was being a raving lunatic :-D Nick Parker wrote: What are they doing when they release new versions of their browser? Are they just fixing errors from before? Well Netscape 4 and all it's sub-versions were initially a cock-up and then a running-battle cock-up. We all gave up on v4.75. Then Netscape 5 was announced and we all groaned. That got scraped and eventually they realeased v6 which was this whole Mozilla touted thing. Unfortuantley v6 did rendering well, good standards support etc., but the surrounding application, based on all this XUL crap, was a nightmare, crashed faster than you can say "IE works". They then release v6.1 and 6.2 which are now actually rather good. IF you give IE 6.0 a HTML doc it renders it almost exactly the same as Netscape 6.2. That is such a cool thing to see. My whole point is this: I would love for there to be five thousand browsers out there. As long as each and every one of them stuck to the W3C standards and rendered the same HTML the same way. I don't like IE because it is MS or it came with my OS, I like it because it renders HTML as you expect it to be rendered, i.e. via the standards. So bring on Opera, Netscape 6.2, IE 7, Konqueror etc. Just as long as they all treat HTML the same way. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
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Nick Parker wrote: This is really great, LOL, I thought I was being a raving lunatic :-D Nick Parker wrote: What are they doing when they release new versions of their browser? Are they just fixing errors from before? Well Netscape 4 and all it's sub-versions were initially a cock-up and then a running-battle cock-up. We all gave up on v4.75. Then Netscape 5 was announced and we all groaned. That got scraped and eventually they realeased v6 which was this whole Mozilla touted thing. Unfortuantley v6 did rendering well, good standards support etc., but the surrounding application, based on all this XUL crap, was a nightmare, crashed faster than you can say "IE works". They then release v6.1 and 6.2 which are now actually rather good. IF you give IE 6.0 a HTML doc it renders it almost exactly the same as Netscape 6.2. That is such a cool thing to see. My whole point is this: I would love for there to be five thousand browsers out there. As long as each and every one of them stuck to the W3C standards and rendered the same HTML the same way. I don't like IE because it is MS or it came with my OS, I like it because it renders HTML as you expect it to be rendered, i.e. via the standards. So bring on Opera, Netscape 6.2, IE 7, Konqueror etc. Just as long as they all treat HTML the same way. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: LOL, I thought I was being a raving lunatic Aren't we all? :laugh: Maybe that's just what my girlfriend would say! Nick Parker
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Nick Parker wrote: This is really great, LOL, I thought I was being a raving lunatic :-D Nick Parker wrote: What are they doing when they release new versions of their browser? Are they just fixing errors from before? Well Netscape 4 and all it's sub-versions were initially a cock-up and then a running-battle cock-up. We all gave up on v4.75. Then Netscape 5 was announced and we all groaned. That got scraped and eventually they realeased v6 which was this whole Mozilla touted thing. Unfortuantley v6 did rendering well, good standards support etc., but the surrounding application, based on all this XUL crap, was a nightmare, crashed faster than you can say "IE works". They then release v6.1 and 6.2 which are now actually rather good. IF you give IE 6.0 a HTML doc it renders it almost exactly the same as Netscape 6.2. That is such a cool thing to see. My whole point is this: I would love for there to be five thousand browsers out there. As long as each and every one of them stuck to the W3C standards and rendered the same HTML the same way. I don't like IE because it is MS or it came with my OS, I like it because it renders HTML as you expect it to be rendered, i.e. via the standards. So bring on Opera, Netscape 6.2, IE 7, Konqueror etc. Just as long as they all treat HTML the same way. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
Rendering HTML equivalent isn't enough - we need a consistent DOM, CSS1/2 and DHTML support. Then I'll be happy. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Rendering HTML equivalent isn't enough - we need a consistent DOM, CSS1/2 and DHTML support. Then I'll be happy. cheers, Chris Maunder
While were at it I'll take a Pepperoni Pizza too. :laugh: Nick Parker
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Rendering HTML equivalent isn't enough - we need a consistent DOM, CSS1/2 and DHTML support. Then I'll be happy. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Rendering HTML equivalent isn't enough - we need a consistent DOM, CSS1/2 and DHTML support. Oh definitley. Sorry, I just automatically encapsulated all the DOM and CSS stuff into HTML rendering. What I want to see is some core web engine which all browsers use. It renders the HTML, does CSS properly and provides a logical and standards based DOM interface. Then, all the different browsers use it but have their own shell around it. Of course people like MS are not likely to use a browser engine developed open source (like Mozilla) and the Mozilla people naturally won't use a browse engine developed closed source by MS. So they need to build their engines "together" making sure that both meet all the standards and don't implement proprietary stuff. If they have a disagreement on what a certain standard written by the W3C actually means then they need to ask the W3C, not assume what they want and implement it like they do now (e.g. the Box Flow model.) Bottom line is that I want an HTML page I pass to any browser to work without having to have tailored versions for each browser. It is good for everyone in the long run. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Sonork ID: 100.9903 Stormfront
