bin Laden's truce
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Christian Graus wrote:
the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive
Care to give some more details?
I just did. The fundamental thing is that Islam basically rejects Christ, and instead follows on from the old testament in a way that's more in line with a strict, legalistic view of the OT. In that sense, the Jewish God and Allah are not as different from each other as they are both very different to the Christian God. A fundamental difference would be that Islam essentially rejects Christ, and Christ is the central platform of the Christian God's plan for His creation, and the expression of His nature. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Michel Prévost wrote:
Any half literate person would have read carefully what I said about that.
What - 'and you possess divine truth' ? That's what I replied to.
Michel Prévost wrote:
were founded in the same 25 square meters
Really ? I thought Islam was founded in Africa, thanks for the insight.
Michel Prévost wrote:
I think it reasonable to think that Jehovah, Allah, and God are the same person
Well, that's just dumb on so many levels. 1. Have you read the Quran ? If not, how can you comment ? 2. If they are the same, why would Mohammed have bothered writing the Quran, if he had two other religions to choose from that were, according to you, the same ?
Michel Prévost wrote:
(I have no proof of that, but you may find on the Internet many articles about it, whether it is true or not, both sides have arguments).
Sure. My argument is that any suggestion that the god presented in the Quran is the same as the God of Christianity or even Judaism involves a lot of faith and a lot of refusing to read any of the texts involved.
Michel Prévost wrote:
Could you give an example?
The most obvious example I can think of is that in the NT, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. In the Quran, Jesus is just a man. That's a pretty big part of the nature of the Christian God that Islam rejects, making the two entities fundamentally different. I also found heaps of stuff on how the Quran contradicts the Bible via google, but mostly with regard to the details of stories. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
What - 'and you possess divine truth' ? That's what I replied to.
But that was my reply to a reply of my reply.
Christian Graus wrote:
Really ? I thought Islam was founded in Africa, thanks for the insight.
You're welcome.
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, that's just dumb on so many levels. 1. Have you read the Quran ? If not, how can you comment ? 2. If they are the same, why would Mohammed have bothered writing the Quran, if he had two other religions to choose from that were, according to you, the same ?
I don't have to read the Quran. There are lots of documentation about that, whether it is in favor of the idea or not. If you read my original reply, I say:
And also, many believe that the christian's God and Allah are the same "entity", but with different names, but I am not sure.
Please, don't make it look like I made a statement.
Christian Graus wrote:
Sure. My argument is that any suggestion that the god presented in the Quran is the same as the God of Christianity or even Judaism involves a lot of faith and a lot of refusing to read any of the texts involved.
That is your argument about the subject. I don't have any, I was just mentioning what some people believed (or not).
Christian Graus wrote:
The most obvious example I can think of is that in the NT, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. In the Quran, Jesus is just a man. That's a pretty big part of the nature of the Christian God that Islam rejects, making the two entities fundamentally different. I also found heaps of stuff on how the Quran contradicts the Bible via google, but mostly with regard to the details of stories.
You refer to books that often contradicts themselves. Do you believe those books? They were written by lunatics. You know, people have different points of view that often differ, and often people don't agree with other's opinions, and go to war to crush them just because they don't think the same. I find this very dumb, whatever side does (mine or theirs). It is just plain stupid. And to justify their point of views, they write books about illuminations and revelations they had. Give me a break, here! On a totally unrelated note, I have a good movie suggestion for
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Any half literate person would have read carefully what I said about that. Move 4 posts up, you will be able to re-read it. And for your information, Christianism, Judaism, and Islam were founded in the same 25 square meters (I don't have the real measurements, I am just illustrating, but you get the idea). Jerusalem, thrice a sanctified city, cradle of the 3 religions mentioned above (this is very well documented). I think it reasonable to think that Jehovah, Allah, and God are the same person (I have no proof of that, but you may find on the Internet many articles about it, whether it is true or not, both sides have arguments), carefully interpreted in different way by the 3 religions, to reflect the beliefs of the spirituous leaders of the time.
Christian Graus wrote:
Any half literate person can tell that the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive
Could you give an example? <edit>Made a mistake about the number of posts to move up, and added a comment.>/edit< -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 21:55 Thursday 19th January, 2006
Michel Prévost wrote:
Christianism, Judaism, and Islam were founded in the same 25 square meters
Christianity (according to Christian belief)is the logical progression, Christ being the predicted savior.
Michel Prévost wrote:
Could you give an example?
the God of Islam commands death to unbelievers. there'll be a hew and cry from Muslims saying, "you're misinterpreting", but if I am so are a subset of Muslims. I blieve it, they act it out. --------------- and whether or not there is any real truth in the above, it simply doesn't matter because as long as they (Muslims) act as though: that fucking part of the world is their's in it's entirety, to the exclusion of Jews; they can attack my country because of some harebrained bullshit then they'll be on the recieving and of whatever my country can throw at them. Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon A vegan is someone who never heard a carrot cry!
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
nothing matches the murders committed by followers of Islam
Got any reading on that? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
If you dig the combined history of central/south asia and europe , during the 11th - 12th century AD , many attacks from mongoloids happened to europe and asia . For example 1) Chengiz khan - he could have jolly well been just a king of his nomodic people . But islam entered mongolia some centuries before and the result was total destruction to the then north india , borders of europes and afganistan . He had butchered minimum a million lives . But the character of khan can not be directly linked to his relegion coz the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already ... 2)Timur -e- lang was the first central asain duke to have crossed himalayas to india during 11th century . He arrested .6 million hindus after they were defeated and paraded in a ground . The "e- lang" in his name means "limp" coz timur used to limp due to an injury . So when he was walking around the ground , a poor prisoner laughed for some reasons and timur was enraged . Within hours the heads of all the .6 million prisoners were chopped off . This is recorded history . 3)Just 400 years before , nadirshah - the king of persia (iran) defeated the mougal (muslim) king of india and held delhi under his control . And the delhi shopkeepers were teasing the soldiers of nadirshah , which resulted in the butchery of whole delhi down to a zero life . Its said , delhi was a city of vultures and foxes for many months after the massacre.... So history has somehow enabled us to have serious doubts on the basics governing islam ... redindian
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
nothing matches the murders committed by followers of Islam
Got any reading on that? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
For starters the book in my previous post is an excellent reference. The sword of the Prophet[^](PBUH) is also a good book. I believe that the number of Hindus, Buddhists and Zorastrians massacred by Muslim fanatics is more than the number of people killed in the name of religion by all other religions combined. The mountain range Hindu Kush actually means Hindu Slaughter. http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html[^] [1]. http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/007743.php[^] [2]. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=4649[^] [3]. Story of Islamic Imperailism by Sita Ram Goel[^]
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If you dig the combined history of central/south asia and europe , during the 11th - 12th century AD , many attacks from mongoloids happened to europe and asia . For example 1) Chengiz khan - he could have jolly well been just a king of his nomodic people . But islam entered mongolia some centuries before and the result was total destruction to the then north india , borders of europes and afganistan . He had butchered minimum a million lives . But the character of khan can not be directly linked to his relegion coz the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already ... 2)Timur -e- lang was the first central asain duke to have crossed himalayas to india during 11th century . He arrested .6 million hindus after they were defeated and paraded in a ground . The "e- lang" in his name means "limp" coz timur used to limp due to an injury . So when he was walking around the ground , a poor prisoner laughed for some reasons and timur was enraged . Within hours the heads of all the .6 million prisoners were chopped off . This is recorded history . 3)Just 400 years before , nadirshah - the king of persia (iran) defeated the mougal (muslim) king of india and held delhi under his control . And the delhi shopkeepers were teasing the soldiers of nadirshah , which resulted in the butchery of whole delhi down to a zero life . Its said , delhi was a city of vultures and foxes for many months after the massacre.... So history has somehow enabled us to have serious doubts on the basics governing islam ... redindian
wow! Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon A vegan is someone who never heard a carrot cry!
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wow! Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon A vegan is someone who never heard a carrot cry!
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wow! Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon A vegan is someone who never heard a carrot cry!
sorry forgot another point also... Timur is buried in Samarkand which is in tajikistan now . His tomb was built by indian craftsmen . He also took with him hundreds of elephants painted in yellow, blue , red ....a sense of humour unlikely to be found in a savage like him ... redindian
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If you dig the combined history of central/south asia and europe , during the 11th - 12th century AD , many attacks from mongoloids happened to europe and asia . For example 1) Chengiz khan - he could have jolly well been just a king of his nomodic people . But islam entered mongolia some centuries before and the result was total destruction to the then north india , borders of europes and afganistan . He had butchered minimum a million lives . But the character of khan can not be directly linked to his relegion coz the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already ... 2)Timur -e- lang was the first central asain duke to have crossed himalayas to india during 11th century . He arrested .6 million hindus after they were defeated and paraded in a ground . The "e- lang" in his name means "limp" coz timur used to limp due to an injury . So when he was walking around the ground , a poor prisoner laughed for some reasons and timur was enraged . Within hours the heads of all the .6 million prisoners were chopped off . This is recorded history . 3)Just 400 years before , nadirshah - the king of persia (iran) defeated the mougal (muslim) king of india and held delhi under his control . And the delhi shopkeepers were teasing the soldiers of nadirshah , which resulted in the butchery of whole delhi down to a zero life . Its said , delhi was a city of vultures and foxes for many months after the massacre.... So history has somehow enabled us to have serious doubts on the basics governing islam ... redindian
dharani wrote:
- Chengiz khan - he could have jolly well been just a king of his nomodic people . But islam entered mongolia some centuries before and the result was total destruction to the then north india , borders of europes and afganistan . He had butchered minimum a million lives . But the character of khan can not be directly linked to his relegion coz the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already
I am not sure if the rest of what you said is correct or not, but the above statement is not correct. Because Salman Khan, Aamir Khan, Zaheer Khan , Saif Ali Khan etc. are Muslims; You assumed Genghis Khan was a Muslim ? :-D Maybe Genghiz Khan was a Pathan taxi driver from Bhindibazar ?? :laugh: Please read this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol :
Various members of the Mongol Court, including Sorghaghtani Beki, were Nestorian Christians. While the court was nominally Buddhist and maintained a policy of being open to all religions, it was known as particularly sympathetic to Christians (which may have helped contribute to the legend of Prester John). In 1253 the court followed the suggestion of Crusader Kingdoms in Syria to attack the Muslim capitals of Baghdad and Cairo. Baghdad was conquered and sacked in 1258 with the city's Christians spared, and the Abbasid caliph killed. However, with the troops on the road to Cairo, Mongka Khan died in 1259 and much of the force returned home for the selection of the new leader. Egyptian troops finally repelled the attack in 1260. This, and ultimately the "gates of Vienna," marked the farthest West the Mongol Empire would progress.
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Osama speaks[^] Al-Jazeera on Thursday aired an audiotape from Osama bin Laden who says al-Qaida is making preparations for attacks in the United States but offers a truce on "fair" but undefined conditions :~ Ummm... so he's offering a truce, but warns he's still going to attack. I'm assuming he's trying to appeal only to his followers by seeming like he's taking the high road, but not showing weakness by doing so. Who falls for this shit? "We do not mind offering you a long-term truce with fair conditions that we adhere to," he said. "We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat. So both sides can enjoy security and stability under this truce so we can build Iraq and Afghanistan, which have been destroyed in this war." BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright-- modified at 15:32 Thursday 19th January, 2006
I hope Bush`s support graph will move up now?he was in real pressure for last few weeks. ;P
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dharani wrote:
- Chengiz khan - he could have jolly well been just a king of his nomodic people . But islam entered mongolia some centuries before and the result was total destruction to the then north india , borders of europes and afganistan . He had butchered minimum a million lives . But the character of khan can not be directly linked to his relegion coz the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already
I am not sure if the rest of what you said is correct or not, but the above statement is not correct. Because Salman Khan, Aamir Khan, Zaheer Khan , Saif Ali Khan etc. are Muslims; You assumed Genghis Khan was a Muslim ? :-D Maybe Genghiz Khan was a Pathan taxi driver from Bhindibazar ?? :laugh: Please read this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol :
Various members of the Mongol Court, including Sorghaghtani Beki, were Nestorian Christians. While the court was nominally Buddhist and maintained a policy of being open to all religions, it was known as particularly sympathetic to Christians (which may have helped contribute to the legend of Prester John). In 1253 the court followed the suggestion of Crusader Kingdoms in Syria to attack the Muslim capitals of Baghdad and Cairo. Baghdad was conquered and sacked in 1258 with the city's Christians spared, and the Abbasid caliph killed. However, with the troops on the road to Cairo, Mongka Khan died in 1259 and much of the force returned home for the selection of the new leader. Egyptian troops finally repelled the attack in 1260. This, and ultimately the "gates of Vienna," marked the farthest West the Mongol Empire would progress.
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For starters the book in my previous post is an excellent reference. The sword of the Prophet[^](PBUH) is also a good book. I believe that the number of Hindus, Buddhists and Zorastrians massacred by Muslim fanatics is more than the number of people killed in the name of religion by all other religions combined. The mountain range Hindu Kush actually means Hindu Slaughter. http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/hindu_kush.html[^] [1]. http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/007743.php[^] [2]. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=4649[^] [3]. Story of Islamic Imperailism by Sita Ram Goel[^]
*yawn* Krishna i am too lazy to search references about Hindu violence on his own ppl mentioned in their holy book,do search my post in same forum;) comeup with something neutral
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Currently, it is. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
there was no CP forum at the time when christians were supposed to be pain in ass for the world,i wonder how would chiristians like stan,kgaddy could defend statments against their belief
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...maybe we could agree to the truce and than just kill him - since secularism doens't forbid us to lie and cheat. :cool: "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
if killing osama could stop America to invade muslim counteris and murdering of muslims then i would be the first one to support you.
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dharani wrote:
- Chengiz khan - he could have jolly well been just a king of his nomodic people . But islam entered mongolia some centuries before and the result was total destruction to the then north india , borders of europes and afganistan . He had butchered minimum a million lives . But the character of khan can not be directly linked to his relegion coz the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already
I am not sure if the rest of what you said is correct or not, but the above statement is not correct. Because Salman Khan, Aamir Khan, Zaheer Khan , Saif Ali Khan etc. are Muslims; You assumed Genghis Khan was a Muslim ? :-D Maybe Genghiz Khan was a Pathan taxi driver from Bhindibazar ?? :laugh: Please read this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol :
Various members of the Mongol Court, including Sorghaghtani Beki, were Nestorian Christians. While the court was nominally Buddhist and maintained a policy of being open to all religions, it was known as particularly sympathetic to Christians (which may have helped contribute to the legend of Prester John). In 1253 the court followed the suggestion of Crusader Kingdoms in Syria to attack the Muslim capitals of Baghdad and Cairo. Baghdad was conquered and sacked in 1258 with the city's Christians spared, and the Abbasid caliph killed. However, with the troops on the road to Cairo, Mongka Khan died in 1259 and much of the force returned home for the selection of the new leader. Egyptian troops finally repelled the attack in 1260. This, and ultimately the "gates of Vienna," marked the farthest West the Mongol Empire would progress.
After reading the article don't go around saying the Buddhists killed a lot of people. There is no evidence to suggest that Genghiz Khan was a Buddhist. It is a strong possibility than Genghiz Khan followed some pre Buddhist, Mongol religion. Jayaatu Khan the 13th Mongol Khan was a Buddhist. But that is 13 generations later.
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Osama speaks[^] Al-Jazeera on Thursday aired an audiotape from Osama bin Laden who says al-Qaida is making preparations for attacks in the United States but offers a truce on "fair" but undefined conditions :~ Ummm... so he's offering a truce, but warns he's still going to attack. I'm assuming he's trying to appeal only to his followers by seeming like he's taking the high road, but not showing weakness by doing so. Who falls for this shit? "We do not mind offering you a long-term truce with fair conditions that we adhere to," he said. "We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat. So both sides can enjoy security and stability under this truce so we can build Iraq and Afghanistan, which have been destroyed in this war." BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright-- modified at 15:32 Thursday 19th January, 2006
and it is rejected[^] by US In the audio message, Bin Laden appeared to suggest that a US withdrawal from Muslim lands could prompt agreement over a truce. if its all about pulling out US troops from Muslim counteris,thats a fair demand,agreeing with it doesn`t make me his fellow coz noone likes outsiders on his homeland,even US wouldnt tolerate french army on his land his threat to US citizens,no this is unfair and it shoudn`t be supported,i wonder why such silly statment could be taken seriously,at one hand you are going in agreement,while on other ur threatening, its like a-a=0 and as I had doubt, BBC also supported it that such threat would Boost Bush support by americans[^] from website: Americans hardly need a tape of Osama Bin Laden to remind them they are threatened by extremists, as the War on Terror has overshadowed their lives since 9/11.
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If you dig the combined history of central/south asia and europe , during the 11th - 12th century AD , many attacks from mongoloids happened to europe and asia . For example 1) Chengiz khan - he could have jolly well been just a king of his nomodic people . But islam entered mongolia some centuries before and the result was total destruction to the then north india , borders of europes and afganistan . He had butchered minimum a million lives . But the character of khan can not be directly linked to his relegion coz the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already ... 2)Timur -e- lang was the first central asain duke to have crossed himalayas to india during 11th century . He arrested .6 million hindus after they were defeated and paraded in a ground . The "e- lang" in his name means "limp" coz timur used to limp due to an injury . So when he was walking around the ground , a poor prisoner laughed for some reasons and timur was enraged . Within hours the heads of all the .6 million prisoners were chopped off . This is recorded history . 3)Just 400 years before , nadirshah - the king of persia (iran) defeated the mougal (muslim) king of india and held delhi under his control . And the delhi shopkeepers were teasing the soldiers of nadirshah , which resulted in the butchery of whole delhi down to a zero life . Its said , delhi was a city of vultures and foxes for many months after the massacre.... So history has somehow enabled us to have serious doubts on the basics governing islam ... redindian
dharani wrote:
the huns whom the europeans feared most were also mongoloid - am not sure if they were muslims already ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns The Hun conquests (300 to 500 A.D.) ended long before Islam was founded (between 570 and 632 A.D.)
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*yawn* Krishna i am too lazy to search references about Hindu violence on his own ppl mentioned in their holy book,do search my post in same forum;) comeup with something neutral
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Hindu violence
But nothing on the scale of what was done by Muslims, and even if such a violence occured it has no religious justification. Killing has always been wrong whether an Hindu kills a Hindu or a Hindu kills a muslim. There is no distiction between believers and non-believers. Culture and religion have been independent to the most extent.
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NO, you are wrong. All three believe in Abraham, that is about it. Muslims believe God dropped a book in the desert and gave it to Muhammad. So that means everything in the koran in written by God, and cannot be judged. It's final. So, knowing this. Read how women and non-believers should be treated, written by God, and tell me if that is the same forgiving God of the Christian God. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
kgaddy wrote:
and tell me if that is the same forgiving God of the Christian God.
Yes, it is. :)
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Stan Shannon wrote:
We weren't discussing history. But thank's for brilliant insight anyway ...
You are right, on both points. ;P
Stan Shannon wrote:
Obviously, thats where you got your education. At least it was free, eh?
No, it was not free, although probably much cheaper than in the USA. This explains the impressive amount of uneducated people you find there compared to other countries. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
This explains the impressive amount of uneducated people you find there compared to other countries.
If being uneducated means not being brought up to hate the US for no real reason, then yeah we're dumb. And we also have nice shiny boots to stick up your ass too. ;) Jeremy Falcon