Middle East
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I just read an interview by John Keegan (one of the best historians of war) in a brazilian magazine where he explains that the US is facing a situation which has historically proven hard to control: a rebelion in an ocupied region. And to make things worse the americans don't understand arab, don't know how to infiltrate into the insurgents, don't even know who they are and can't do inteligence against them. As I suspected 3 years ago: Iraq will be a disaster. Now just think about the insurgency spreading to the rest of arab world with a support from Iran. Maybe into Saudi Arabia, maybe into Egipt, maybe warheads pointed to the wells in Kuwait and United Arab Emirates, ... I see U$100,00 for barrel of oil as a realistic expectation. And it will be worse than some atomic bombs. It will mean recession, an end to industrialization of Asia, more money to terrorists, etc. Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles. George Jean Nathan (1882 - 1958) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)
Diego Moita wrote:
As I suspected 3 years ago: Iraq will be a disaster.
I was never a fan of the war to begin with, but I don't think the results are set in stone just yet. It's not going to be any time soon, however.
Diego Moita wrote:
I see U$100,00 for barrel of oil as a realistic expectation.
Good news for Canada[^] ;) They've got more oil in those oil sands than all of the deposits in the middle east combined. From what I've read, the overwhelming majority of it can't be had for cheaper than about $80 a barrel. If middle-eastern oil goes away, $80 isn't going to look that bad to the world market anymore.
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Matthew Hazlett wrote:
George would be smart
Fine irony...
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
everyone major nation will band together before that happens
And do what? In international politics continental Europe can barelly agree with US. It's hard to see them to band with the man which begun the rift ("You're either with us or against us", "America will go it's own way.") for the reason which caused the rift. China has already begun doing something; a deal with Iran: they'll give them political support in exchange for cheap oil. Doesn't sound like banding.
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
but it could probably and will probably get very messey. I'm sorry to say will most definitly get a lot worse before it gets just a little better.
For sure... Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles. George Jean Nathan (1882 - 1958) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)
A lot of our local media spins George to make him look like an idiot. He's really not, he has made some bad decissions as all presidents do (they are only human). But then, threw no fault of their own, the internatinal media picks up the George bashing storys and spins them some more. Before you know it poor George is wearing a clown outfit and attending kids parties. Personally, I like the guy. Don't agree 100% with everything he has done but he's done alot for the citizens of this country and others. (And he hasn't used any cigars) heh :-) Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
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It's getting pretty messey over there with Hamas being elected. I really hope they stop beating the terror drums and forget about Isreal. Between this, Iraq and Iran, this could (and most likely will) destabalize the region. As a US citizen I think we should build structers in Isreal next to the buildings Hamas wants to blow up, maybe that will discurage them? I'm not sure what else anyone can do. It will take all the countries (Russa, UK, Germany, France etc...) getting together and co-operating. Thats in itself is extreamly rare. We all need to get our ***** in order, this could so easly escalate and get totally out of control. :-( My 2 Cents... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
It will take all the countries (Russa, UK, Germany, France etc...) getting together and co-operating.
The only remaining question is: cooperating on what?
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
That's what some Christian fundamentalists are praying for. They think a crisis in the M.E. will lead to the return of Jesus.
Not only the Christian fundamentalists. Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad belongs to a fundamentalist faction of Shia which waits for the comming of Imam Mahdi, one last muslim prophet which would come among a situation of chaos. Once again, the extremists (christians and muslims) are alike, not different. Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles. George Jean Nathan (1882 - 1958) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)
Diego Moita wrote:
fundamentalist faction of Shia which waits for the comming of Imam Mahdi, one last muslim prophet which would come among a situation of chaos.
I thought Mohammed would be the last...?
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Matthew Hazlett wrote:
Religion is the origion of violance.
People are the origin of all violence. People all across the world have a chubby for religion - and have for tens of thousands of years - so the relationship between 'religion' and 'violence', I think, are more corollary than causal. For example: the old USSR was institutionally atheist, and plenty of killin' came from it :) That's not to say that religion can't be touted as a reason for violence - but if you look closely at history it always appears that it's used to convince the masses to line up and kill/die.
Absolutely correct. In fact, if one makes a careful, unbiased study of history most human conflict was not caused by religious differences but by purely secular,economic,territorial,racial reasons. Blameing religion for it all merely takes us further away from any possible solution. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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Matthew Hazlett wrote:
this could so easly escalate and get totally out of control
That's what some Christian fundamentalists are praying for. They think a crisis in the M.E. will lead to the return of Jesus.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
some Christian fundamentalists
Yeah, lets be sure to worry about those 4 guys. That'll help us solve the problem. :rolleyes: "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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It's getting pretty messey over there with Hamas being elected. I really hope they stop beating the terror drums and forget about Isreal. Between this, Iraq and Iran, this could (and most likely will) destabalize the region. As a US citizen I think we should build structers in Isreal next to the buildings Hamas wants to blow up, maybe that will discurage them? I'm not sure what else anyone can do. It will take all the countries (Russa, UK, Germany, France etc...) getting together and co-operating. Thats in itself is extreamly rare. We all need to get our ***** in order, this could so easly escalate and get totally out of control. :-( My 2 Cents... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
I don't get why people are so upset about Hamas winning the election. The only difference between them and that other bunch of dumb asses is that they don't make a secret about being a bunch of terrorists. They are not trying to hide what they are. What I find ironic is that the lefties all seem to think that the solution to the problem of Islamic extremism is to free the world of Jews and Christians! So, we cannot possible look in that direction for any sane, intellectual help on the issue. As a US citizen, I think it is time to force the issue once and for all. It has been allowed to fester for far too long. Oil will continue to be a huge enabling resource for all of this chaos for a long time to come. There is nothing Bush or anyone else can do about that in the forseeable future. So, I suggest that the powers of the world should simply come together and take the oil away from the Muslims. Re-colonize the region and set up international control of their governments. We have to choose between living in a stable, modern world, and pandering to the whims of a civilization which is increasingly unstable and dangerous. The sooner we put an end to it the better. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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I don't get why people are so upset about Hamas winning the election. The only difference between them and that other bunch of dumb asses is that they don't make a secret about being a bunch of terrorists. They are not trying to hide what they are. What I find ironic is that the lefties all seem to think that the solution to the problem of Islamic extremism is to free the world of Jews and Christians! So, we cannot possible look in that direction for any sane, intellectual help on the issue. As a US citizen, I think it is time to force the issue once and for all. It has been allowed to fester for far too long. Oil will continue to be a huge enabling resource for all of this chaos for a long time to come. There is nothing Bush or anyone else can do about that in the forseeable future. So, I suggest that the powers of the world should simply come together and take the oil away from the Muslims. Re-colonize the region and set up international control of their governments. We have to choose between living in a stable, modern world, and pandering to the whims of a civilization which is increasingly unstable and dangerous. The sooner we put an end to it the better. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
I've heard that kind of reasoning before... ;P
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I don't get why people are so upset about Hamas winning the election. The only difference between them and that other bunch of dumb asses is that they don't make a secret about being a bunch of terrorists. They are not trying to hide what they are. What I find ironic is that the lefties all seem to think that the solution to the problem of Islamic extremism is to free the world of Jews and Christians! So, we cannot possible look in that direction for any sane, intellectual help on the issue. As a US citizen, I think it is time to force the issue once and for all. It has been allowed to fester for far too long. Oil will continue to be a huge enabling resource for all of this chaos for a long time to come. There is nothing Bush or anyone else can do about that in the forseeable future. So, I suggest that the powers of the world should simply come together and take the oil away from the Muslims. Re-colonize the region and set up international control of their governments. We have to choose between living in a stable, modern world, and pandering to the whims of a civilization which is increasingly unstable and dangerous. The sooner we put an end to it the better. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
stable
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist -
It's getting pretty messey over there with Hamas being elected. I really hope they stop beating the terror drums and forget about Isreal. Between this, Iraq and Iran, this could (and most likely will) destabalize the region. As a US citizen I think we should build structers in Isreal next to the buildings Hamas wants to blow up, maybe that will discurage them? I'm not sure what else anyone can do. It will take all the countries (Russa, UK, Germany, France etc...) getting together and co-operating. Thats in itself is extreamly rare. We all need to get our ***** in order, this could so easly escalate and get totally out of control. :-( My 2 Cents... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
Imagine there's no countries, It isnt hard to do, Nothing to kill or die for, No religion too, Imagine all the people living life in peace... -John Lennon
-Prakash -- modified at 11:01 Saturday 28th January, 2006
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It's getting pretty messey over there with Hamas being elected. I really hope they stop beating the terror drums and forget about Isreal. Between this, Iraq and Iran, this could (and most likely will) destabalize the region. As a US citizen I think we should build structers in Isreal next to the buildings Hamas wants to blow up, maybe that will discurage them? I'm not sure what else anyone can do. It will take all the countries (Russa, UK, Germany, France etc...) getting together and co-operating. Thats in itself is extreamly rare. We all need to get our ***** in order, this could so easly escalate and get totally out of control. :-( My 2 Cents... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
Between this, Iraq and Iran, this could (and most likely will) destabalize the region.
I'm worried you are right - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/28012006/325/gunmen-seize-palestinian-parliament.html[^] It seems much of Fatah would rather see everything go down in flames :(( The tigress is here :-D
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Diego Moita wrote:
fundamentalist faction of Shia which waits for the comming of Imam Mahdi, one last muslim prophet which would come among a situation of chaos.
I thought Mohammed would be the last...?
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I thought Mohammed would be the last...?
Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Mahdi[^] It is funny how the the same tricks repeat themselves in monotheist religions: return of the messiah amongst the chaos, promised land for the people of god, paradise for the fidels, hell to infidels, etc. Well, no wonder: they are basically variations of judaism. Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles. George Jean Nathan (1882 - 1958) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)
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A lot of our local media spins George to make him look like an idiot. He's really not, he has made some bad decissions as all presidents do (they are only human). But then, threw no fault of their own, the internatinal media picks up the George bashing storys and spins them some more. Before you know it poor George is wearing a clown outfit and attending kids parties. Personally, I like the guy. Don't agree 100% with everything he has done but he's done alot for the citizens of this country and others. (And he hasn't used any cigars) heh :-) Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
Personally, I like the guy.
I don't. And I don't hate him, too. I think it is childish to let feelings get into things like politics, programming languages, operating systems or cars and tools. Feelings affect your judgement. And when you let feelings affect the judgement of these things you might end in the path of becoming a troll.
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
he's done alot for the citizens of this country and others.
Can't talk about americans, but I can assure you that almost all citizens of all other countries (except Israel) would be happier without what Bush did for them.
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
(And he hasn't used any cigars) heh
:)Clinton screwed Monica, Bush screwed almost the whole world. Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970) Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950) Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles. George Jean Nathan (1882 - 1958) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
some Christian fundamentalists
Yeah, lets be sure to worry about those 4 guys. That'll help us solve the problem. :rolleyes: "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
lets be sure to worry about those 4 guys
If it were only 4, Stan, I wouldn't worry. But there are more.
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A lot of our local media spins George to make him look like an idiot. He's really not, he has made some bad decissions as all presidents do (they are only human). But then, threw no fault of their own, the internatinal media picks up the George bashing storys and spins them some more. Before you know it poor George is wearing a clown outfit and attending kids parties. Personally, I like the guy. Don't agree 100% with everything he has done but he's done alot for the citizens of this country and others. (And he hasn't used any cigars) heh :-) Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
Matthew Hazlett wrote:
he's done alot for the citizens of this country and others
That should say "to", not "for".
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Imagine there's no countries, It isnt hard to do, Nothing to kill or die for, No religion too, Imagine all the people living life in peace... -John Lennon
-Prakash -- modified at 11:01 Saturday 28th January, 2006
Be nice, but in the real world this will NEVER happen.. Humans like conflict and seek it out... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
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Absolutely correct. In fact, if one makes a careful, unbiased study of history most human conflict was not caused by religious differences but by purely secular,economic,territorial,racial reasons. Blameing religion for it all merely takes us further away from any possible solution. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
Blameing religion for it all merely takes us further away from any possible solution.
More prople have been killed in the name of god or some other nonsense. So, religion is the common catalyst. While I see your point, I very strongly disagree with it. However, people can use religion as a scape goat in masking there real reasons for hostility, so nothing is 100%... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
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Be nice, but in the real world this will NEVER happen.. Humans like conflict and seek it out... Matthew Hazlett Sometimes I miss the simpler DOS days of Borland Turbo Pascal (but not very often).
your pessimism/realism shouldn't stop you working towards this goal. Maybe we can't make this world a better place. But we can stop making it worse.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Stan Shannon wrote:
lets be sure to worry about those 4 guys
If it were only 4, Stan, I wouldn't worry. But there are more.
Indeed. I watch a lot of crap they spew out in various formats. I like to call it "abstract comedy". :)
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your pessimism/realism shouldn't stop you working towards this goal. Maybe we can't make this world a better place. But we can stop making it worse.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighistpeterchen wrote:
But we can stop making it worse.
There is only one solution to that problem, and it's not pretty. People, black, white, christian, muslims, whatever, will have to die due to a common catastrophy. That's the only way, IMO, to make people see others as partners rather than adversaries.