Europe.
-
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
The second sentence is not a result of the first one.
Thanks for reinforcing my prejudice about new emigrants to the US not understanding anything about Jeffersonian Democracy. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
not understanding anything about Jeffersonian Democracy
Please enlighted us. I have no idea what you mean by that. ColinMackay.net "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucius "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell
-
You guys probably should be referring this question to Islam. After all, they're the ones who will be inheriting any constitution you come up with in a couple of generations. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
I'd rather my grandchildren grow up amongst Muslims than the Stan Shannon's of the world any day.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
-
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
The second sentence is not a result of the first one.
Thanks for reinforcing my prejudice about new emigrants to the US not understanding anything about Jeffersonian Democracy. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
Thanks for reinforcing my prejudice about new emigrants to the US not understanding anything about Jeffersonian Democracy.
Yeah whatever... as if I were a new "emigrant". :rolleyes: According to wikipedia[^], one of the core ideals of JD is: A wall of separation between church and state is the best method to keep religion free from government intervention. So what's your point?
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
not understanding anything about Jeffersonian Democracy
Please enlighted us. I have no idea what you mean by that. ColinMackay.net "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucius "If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell
Jefferson wrote "We are endowed by our creator..." and not "we are endowed by the state...". The notion that the state is the source of freedom and liberty is completely contradictory to Jeffersonian principles. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
-
I'd rather my grandchildren grow up amongst Muslims than the Stan Shannon's of the world any day.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
How fortunate for you then. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
-
Jefferson wrote "We are endowed by our creator..." and not "we are endowed by the state...". The notion that the state is the source of freedom and liberty is completely contradictory to Jeffersonian principles. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Bravo! If you believe the state "gave" you rights, then they can certainly take them away. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
-
I'd rather my grandchildren grow up amongst Muslims than the Stan Shannon's of the world any day.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
David Wulff wrote:
I'd rather my grandchildren grow up amongst Muslims than the Stan Shannon's of the world any day.
better get used to Dhimmitude. bend over and take it. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
-
David Wulff wrote:
I'd rather my grandchildren grow up amongst Muslims than the Stan Shannon's of the world any day.
better get used to Dhimmitude. bend over and take it. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
Of course, you know the reason he feels that way is that, like most modern Europeans, he doesn't plan on having grandchildren. Because that would just be immoral, and racist, and anti-environmental :rolleyes: "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
-
David Wulff wrote:
I'd rather my grandchildren grow up amongst Muslims than the Stan Shannon's of the world any day.
better get used to Dhimmitude. bend over and take it. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
kgaddy wrote:
bend over and take it
No thanks, I'll stand.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
-
Ok... reposted here from the lounge, although I think this is apolitical.. I guess it could quickly become polictical. Last night I watched very good documentary on the BBC where Boris Johnson* (MP) talked about how the EU could look back to the Romans in trying to find a way of bringing Europe together. His observation was that "Rome" was much more of an idea than an entity. With the EU struggling to form a "constitution", my question is (and input more than welcome from non-Europeans) "What ONE thing should be in the constitution?" Rather assuming a constitution should be 100 page long and with 100's of rights... Start small, but keep it to definable items, e.g. Freedom can be spun many ways, my view of the US is that their "freedom" is being taken from them by their "anti-terror" measures, so.. whilst they're still "Free", it's not a concrete right. * Please ignore the "personality" if you have a strong dislike for Boris... the question isn't about him, but repeating something he raised. Regards, Ray
Ray Hayes wrote:
talked about how the EU could look back to the Romans in trying to find a way of bringing Europe together.
That has been tried before, and not too long ago. A couple of times actually. Last attempt was abruptly stopped in 1945. :)
-
You guys probably should be referring this question to Islam. After all, they're the ones who will be inheriting any constitution you come up with in a couple of generations. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Nah we are sweet. We have the mighty fucking USA to protect us from this horrible future the rest of us have created for ourselves. Thank Allah they are so kind and willing to get involved for our benifit. I have taken a vow of poverty. If you want to really piss me off, send me money.
-
Ok... reposted here from the lounge, although I think this is apolitical.. I guess it could quickly become polictical. Last night I watched very good documentary on the BBC where Boris Johnson* (MP) talked about how the EU could look back to the Romans in trying to find a way of bringing Europe together. His observation was that "Rome" was much more of an idea than an entity. With the EU struggling to form a "constitution", my question is (and input more than welcome from non-Europeans) "What ONE thing should be in the constitution?" Rather assuming a constitution should be 100 page long and with 100's of rights... Start small, but keep it to definable items, e.g. Freedom can be spun many ways, my view of the US is that their "freedom" is being taken from them by their "anti-terror" measures, so.. whilst they're still "Free", it's not a concrete right. * Please ignore the "personality" if you have a strong dislike for Boris... the question isn't about him, but repeating something he raised. Regards, Ray
Ray Hayes wrote:
"What ONE thing should be in the constitution?"
one thing: "EU shall NOT have power to touch my money. Never, ever. Every bureaucrat who will want to take my money will be shoot!! Twice, to be sure he's dead." "Europe will never be like America. Europe is a product of history. America is a product of philosophy." -Margaret Thatcher
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
Thanks for reinforcing my prejudice about new emigrants to the US not understanding anything about Jeffersonian Democracy.
Yeah whatever... as if I were a new "emigrant". :rolleyes: According to wikipedia[^], one of the core ideals of JD is: A wall of separation between church and state is the best method to keep religion free from government intervention. So what's your point?
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
A wall of separation between church and state is the best method to keep religion free from government intervention.
You know, you're playing Stan's cards right there. It does not say "keep the religion out of the state". It says "keep the state out of religion". Which I believe is Stan's point. However, that "wall" practically means a secular government. That's a point in your favor against Stan. :)
-
Of course, you know the reason he feels that way is that, like most modern Europeans, he doesn't plan on having grandchildren. Because that would just be immoral, and racist, and anti-environmental :rolleyes: "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan, I'll let you in on a fact you never have been able to grasp. I'm not European. I wasn't born a European, and I won't die a European.
Often the solitary dweller awaits favour for himself, the mercy of the Lord, although he, anxious in spirit, has long been obliged to stir with his hands the ice-cold sea over the path of the waters, to travel the paths of exile. Fate is utterly inexorable. So spoke the wanderer, mindful of hardships, of cruel slaughters, of the death of beloved kinsmen: Often alone each dawn I have had to bewail my sorrows; there is not now any one living to whom I dare speak my mind openly. In truth I know that it is a very noble custom in a man that he should bind fast his mind, guard the treasury of his heart, let him think as he will. One weary in spirit cannot resist fate nor can the troubled thought afford consolation; therefore those eager for glorious reputation often bind fast in their hearts a gloomy thought. So I, often wretched, deprived of my native land, far from my noble kinsmen, have had to bind my mind with fetters, since the time years ago when I hid in the concealment of the earth my gold-friend, and I, abject, winter-grieving went from there over the surface of the waves, wretched, I sought the dwelling of a dispenser of treasure, sought where I might be able to find far or near some one who, in a mead-hall, might know of my people or might be willing to console me, friendless, comfort me with pleasures. He who experiences knows how cruel is sorrow as a companion to him who has few friendly protectors for himself. The path of exile attends him, not twisted gold, a mournful spirit, not earthly prosperity. He remembers the warriors in the hall and the receiving of treasure, remembers how in his youth his gold-friend entertained him at feasting. Joy has all disappeared! Therefore he who must know how to do without the instructive speeches of his beloved friendly lord for a long time, when sorrow and sleep together often bind the wretched solitary. It seems to him in his mind that he is embracing and kissing his lord and laying his hands and head on his knee, as he sometimes formerly in the days of yore enjoyed the gift-throne. Then the friendless man awakens again, sees before him the dark waves, sees birds bathe and spread their feathers, sees hoar-frost and snow fall mingled with hail. Then the wounds of the heart are the more severe,
-
kgaddy wrote:
bend over and take it
No thanks, I'll stand.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
-
Stan, I'll let you in on a fact you never have been able to grasp. I'm not European. I wasn't born a European, and I won't die a European.
Often the solitary dweller awaits favour for himself, the mercy of the Lord, although he, anxious in spirit, has long been obliged to stir with his hands the ice-cold sea over the path of the waters, to travel the paths of exile. Fate is utterly inexorable. So spoke the wanderer, mindful of hardships, of cruel slaughters, of the death of beloved kinsmen: Often alone each dawn I have had to bewail my sorrows; there is not now any one living to whom I dare speak my mind openly. In truth I know that it is a very noble custom in a man that he should bind fast his mind, guard the treasury of his heart, let him think as he will. One weary in spirit cannot resist fate nor can the troubled thought afford consolation; therefore those eager for glorious reputation often bind fast in their hearts a gloomy thought. So I, often wretched, deprived of my native land, far from my noble kinsmen, have had to bind my mind with fetters, since the time years ago when I hid in the concealment of the earth my gold-friend, and I, abject, winter-grieving went from there over the surface of the waves, wretched, I sought the dwelling of a dispenser of treasure, sought where I might be able to find far or near some one who, in a mead-hall, might know of my people or might be willing to console me, friendless, comfort me with pleasures. He who experiences knows how cruel is sorrow as a companion to him who has few friendly protectors for himself. The path of exile attends him, not twisted gold, a mournful spirit, not earthly prosperity. He remembers the warriors in the hall and the receiving of treasure, remembers how in his youth his gold-friend entertained him at feasting. Joy has all disappeared! Therefore he who must know how to do without the instructive speeches of his beloved friendly lord for a long time, when sorrow and sleep together often bind the wretched solitary. It seems to him in his mind that he is embracing and kissing his lord and laying his hands and head on his knee, as he sometimes formerly in the days of yore enjoyed the gift-throne. Then the friendless man awakens again, sees before him the dark waves, sees birds bathe and spread their feathers, sees hoar-frost and snow fall mingled with hail. Then the wounds of the heart are the more severe,
I wonder if the Muslims will be all that impressed by that little thread of water that separates your island from Europe after they control the entire place, or how carefully they will treasure old English poems. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
-
I wonder if the Muslims will be all that impressed by that little thread of water that separates your island from Europe after they control the entire place, or how carefully they will treasure old English poems. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
I did not post The Wanderer for their benefit.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
-
I did not post The Wanderer for their benefit.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
Well, I thought it was lovely. Here wealth is temporary, here friend is temporary, here man is temporary, here kinsman is temporary- all this earth's foundation becomes empty! Indeed... (BTW, I got that from a translation easier to read) "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself" -- modified at 18:11 Monday 30th January, 2006
-
Well, I thought it was lovely. Here wealth is temporary, here friend is temporary, here man is temporary, here kinsman is temporary- all this earth's foundation becomes empty! Indeed... (BTW, I got that from a translation easier to read) "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself" -- modified at 18:11 Monday 30th January, 2006
I'm glad. It is one of my favourites, even if I can't read more than half a page of the original.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
-
Bravo! If you believe the state "gave" you rights, then they can certainly take them away. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
kgaddy wrote:
If you believe the state "gave" you rights, then they can certainly take them away.
The state can take away your rights wherever you think they came from. Actually George Bush and the Republicans have been busy doing that for the last few years, but I don't expect you have noticed. Incidentally, no Western secularist that I have ever come across believes that the state is the moral source of human rights, so this blathering on about the state as the alternative to the Creator as a moral source is just misdirection and obfuscation. The state is certainly the legal source of rights, and that is true even if you think the Creator is the moral source. John Carson "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine