Christian Terrorists
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Marc Clifton wrote:
But what I don't get is, why are these people called "Christians"?
Because they apply the label to themselves, I would assume. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
but like Marc, I read the article and couldn't find where they're called christians.
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espeir wrote:
Clearly I am making wild-ass generalizations.
If the shoe fits, buddy. First off your original post says muslims and the article you link is all about Saudis. Second, if you bothered to read the entire article and you'd find this quote "While it is true that Saudi Arabia remains a deeply traditional society, the poll revealed that only a very small minority embraced the extremist policies offered by bin Laden and his followers." Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] When I want privacy, I'll close the bathroom door. [Stan Shannon] BAD DAY FOR: Friendly competition, as Ford Motor Co. declared the employee parking lot at its truck plant in Dearborn, Mich., off limits to vehicles built by rival companies. Workers have to drive a Ford to work, or park across the street. [CNNMoney.com] Nice sig! [Tim Deveaux on Matt Newman's sig with a quote from me]
Chris Meech wrote:
about Saudis.
95%+ of saudis are muslim.
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Stephen Hewitt wrote:
"eye for an eye" stuff from the bible
that's from the "old" testament and a law given to the Jews. Jesus Christ did away with that and said "turn the other cheek".
How convenient - You discount half of it. Can we also ignore half of the Koran? The New Testament isn't the only part of the bible Christians read...I myself have heard priests quote the Old Testament. Steve
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fat_boy wrote:
Except for NORAID that actively promoted IRA terrorism.
Which was illegal, and dealt with harsely. It wasn't tolerated.
fat_boy wrote:
The reason terrorism is now on the wane in Ireland is beause the place has had such an ecconomic boom no one can be bothered with the old arguments, they are having too much fun making money.
BUt the point is that it was prosecuted by the nations and societies of the west where it was being produced. A solution to it ws pursued vigorously. We simply do not see that same level of committment from the middle east, either from their public or their goverments. If we did it would be a far more manageable problem.
fat_boy wrote:
And that was told me by a southern irish guy.
And he was damn sure right. ;P (And, btw, most Southerns are Irish). We do need to develope the economies of the middle east. If these people had economic hope they would be far less tempted to commit suicide. But, they have to be willing to accept change, and that means a much more forceful excercise of social outrage from the moderate muslims at violence from within their own communities. And that is what we are not seeing. "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
btw, most Southerns are Irish
And most Southerns were Democrats until Negroes got equal rights because of that traitor Lyndon Johnson.
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Stephen Hewitt wrote:
"eye for an eye" stuff from the bible
that's from the "old" testament and a law given to the Jews. Jesus Christ did away with that and said "turn the other cheek".
ahz wrote:
Jesus Christ did away with that and said "turn the other cheek".
Ah, so that explains why the United States bombed the crap out of Afghanistan and Iraq. They were turning the other cheek.
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but like Marc, I read the article and couldn't find where they're called christians.
ahz wrote:
but like Marc, I read the article and couldn't find where they're called christians
Unlike Marc, you cannot read. Try having a friend or family member read it to you.
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How convenient - You discount half of it. Can we also ignore half of the Koran? The New Testament isn't the only part of the bible Christians read...I myself have heard priests quote the Old Testament. Steve
Stephen Hewitt wrote:
discount half of
not so. jesus just repealed (fulfilled) the "old" law and gave a new one. much of the old testament still applies (like the 10 commandments found in Genesis).
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ahz wrote:
Jesus Christ did away with that and said "turn the other cheek".
Ah, so that explains why the United States bombed the crap out of Afghanistan and Iraq. They were turning the other cheek.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
They were turning the other cheek
LOL. in one respect I suppose that's true. but i don't know what the bombing of afganistan and iraq have to do with christianity. despite protestations to the contrary, the United States is *not* a christain-run nation. and thank God it is not, otherwise we'd have more crap like what happened in fairly recent history in europe when the pope ran most of it.
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ahz wrote:
but like Marc, I read the article and couldn't find where they're called christians
Unlike Marc, you cannot read. Try having a friend or family member read it to you.
honestly, please post the relevant part of the article, if you please. if not, go your way in peace.
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honestly, please post the relevant part of the article, if you please. if not, go your way in peace.
ahz wrote:
please post the relevant part of the article
From the article (also quoted in the original post for this thread. Perhaps you missed it?): Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), a Christian fundamentalist rebel group LRA rebels say they are fighting for the establishment of a government based on the biblical Ten Commandments[^] Founded in 1989 as the successor to the Holy Spirit Movement, the LRA seeks to overthrow the Ugandan Government and replace it with a regime that will implement the group’s brand of Christianity.[^]
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A.A. wrote:
Fine Rwanda
Rwanda is ruled by muslims. you only make the point.
ahz wrote:
Rwanda is ruled by muslims.
Really?!
The Quran's Rational Arguments (Audio) Background on Prophet Muhammad (in progress) "They are MUSLIM. It does not matter how you split it up: all msulims (so they say) see every other muslim as a brother, regardless of origin or nationality." -legalAlien. Alhamdullah for the blessing of Islam
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Stan Shannon wrote:
btw, most Southerns are Irish
And most Southerns were Democrats until Negroes got equal rights because of that traitor Lyndon Johnson.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
And most Southerns were Democrats until Negroes got equal rights because of that traitor Lyndon Johnson.
I don't see that connection, but a higher percentage of the migration into the Southern colonies was from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and northern England than any other major portion of the country by far. "You get that which you tolerate"
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ahz wrote:
please post the relevant part of the article
From the article (also quoted in the original post for this thread. Perhaps you missed it?): Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), a Christian fundamentalist rebel group LRA rebels say they are fighting for the establishment of a government based on the biblical Ten Commandments[^] Founded in 1989 as the successor to the Holy Spirit Movement, the LRA seeks to overthrow the Ugandan Government and replace it with a regime that will implement the group’s brand of Christianity.[^]
yes i did miss it. thank you. bastards.
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Chris Meech wrote:
about Saudis.
95%+ of saudis are muslim.
ahz wrote:
95%+ of saudis are muslim.
Gotta kind of slip to the other side of this one as the reverse isn't true in that 95% of Muslims are not of Saudi extraction. Don't get me wrong, they've just ran a poll of Muslims here in the UK and some of the results of that were shocking even given that the questions asked may provide no truly measurable data as they were overly leading, but the results from the respondants suggesting that some 40% of of British muslims want application of Sharia Law (in some way) in areas of the UK appalled me. If anything like that does happen though, could the last person to leave please turn off the lights? Rhys Someday, when freedom is gone, and all we've got is the right to whisper our thoughts to those closest to us, our children will look back and ask, why did we think we had the luxury to quibble? Lawrence Lessig In the 60s, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal Unknown Fox hunting is the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable Oscar Wilde
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fat_boy wrote:
Except for NORAID that actively promoted IRA terrorism.
Which was illegal, and dealt with harsely. It wasn't tolerated.
fat_boy wrote:
The reason terrorism is now on the wane in Ireland is beause the place has had such an ecconomic boom no one can be bothered with the old arguments, they are having too much fun making money.
BUt the point is that it was prosecuted by the nations and societies of the west where it was being produced. A solution to it ws pursued vigorously. We simply do not see that same level of committment from the middle east, either from their public or their goverments. If we did it would be a far more manageable problem.
fat_boy wrote:
And that was told me by a southern irish guy.
And he was damn sure right. ;P (And, btw, most Southerns are Irish). We do need to develope the economies of the middle east. If these people had economic hope they would be far less tempted to commit suicide. But, they have to be willing to accept change, and that means a much more forceful excercise of social outrage from the moderate muslims at violence from within their own communities. And that is what we are not seeing. "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
prosecuted by ...societies of the west
Except for IRA fundraising during St PAtricks day parades in New York. Doesnt sound like a western society trying to stop the IRA to me. The fact is, alot of the West, Southern Ireland and Irish descendants in the US, and the Pope, who will always support a catholic in favour of a protestant or church of england issue, actively and passively supported the IRA. We cannot preach to the middle east about their active and passive support for militant islam.
Stan Shannon wrote:
most Southerns are Irish
I say that as oposed to northern irish. He was quite anti english, but we ended up on a contract together in europe for the same firm, ended up having a few drinks and getting quite friendly, which surprised his wife. I say this to indicate his background and feeling, and that when he said terrorism in Ireland was cured by an economic boom, to give credance to that statement. And so the same is true of the middle east. As we have discussed on this forum, many of the suicide bombers come form younger men who wont inherit and have little future. If their society became wealthy, they would drop militant islam the same way the irish dropped terrorism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
social outrage from the moderate muslims at violence from within their own communities
Nice idea, but in practive, how many of us have the balls to stand up and police, morally, our own societies? The germans didnt in the 30's. We dont with the Britich National Party. How about in the US? Do you protest actively against immorality in your country? Nunc est bibendum
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Stan Shannon wrote:
prosecuted by ...societies of the west
Except for IRA fundraising during St PAtricks day parades in New York. Doesnt sound like a western society trying to stop the IRA to me. The fact is, alot of the West, Southern Ireland and Irish descendants in the US, and the Pope, who will always support a catholic in favour of a protestant or church of england issue, actively and passively supported the IRA. We cannot preach to the middle east about their active and passive support for militant islam.
Stan Shannon wrote:
most Southerns are Irish
I say that as oposed to northern irish. He was quite anti english, but we ended up on a contract together in europe for the same firm, ended up having a few drinks and getting quite friendly, which surprised his wife. I say this to indicate his background and feeling, and that when he said terrorism in Ireland was cured by an economic boom, to give credance to that statement. And so the same is true of the middle east. As we have discussed on this forum, many of the suicide bombers come form younger men who wont inherit and have little future. If their society became wealthy, they would drop militant islam the same way the irish dropped terrorism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
social outrage from the moderate muslims at violence from within their own communities
Nice idea, but in practive, how many of us have the balls to stand up and police, morally, our own societies? The germans didnt in the 30's. We dont with the Britich National Party. How about in the US? Do you protest actively against immorality in your country? Nunc est bibendum
fat_boy wrote:
Except for IRA fundraising during St PAtricks day parades in New York. Doesnt sound like a western society trying to stop the IRA to me.
US law enforcement has been all over such activities, just google for NORAID and FBI... American law-enforcement agencies persistently hounded Noraid and secured convictions in a number of important gunrunning conspiracies. The Friends of Ireland continued to play an influential role in Ulster politics and made a significant contribution to the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985. From 1981, the Reagan administration intensified the FARA court case against Noraid. Federal attorneys worked relentlessly to force the group to acknowledge the Provisional IRA as its foreign principal. This legal action also had the objective of making Noraid provide greater details about its fund-raising activities. The Justice Department hoped that victory in the case would bolster its contention that Noraid was bankrolling IRA violence in Northern Ireland. [^] We have every right to not only preach, but to present Islamic nations with a model of how to actively deal with such problems.
fat_boy wrote:
If their society became wealthy, they would drop militant islam the same way the irish dropped terrorism.
But it is militant islam that is largely preventing them from becoming wealthy.
fat_boy wrote:
how many of us have the balls to stand up and police, morally, our own societies?
How do you think we got here in the first place? "You get that which you tolerate" -- modified at 6:12 Wednesday 22nd February, 2006
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fat_boy wrote:
Except for IRA fundraising during St PAtricks day parades in New York. Doesnt sound like a western society trying to stop the IRA to me.
US law enforcement has been all over such activities, just google for NORAID and FBI... American law-enforcement agencies persistently hounded Noraid and secured convictions in a number of important gunrunning conspiracies. The Friends of Ireland continued to play an influential role in Ulster politics and made a significant contribution to the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985. From 1981, the Reagan administration intensified the FARA court case against Noraid. Federal attorneys worked relentlessly to force the group to acknowledge the Provisional IRA as its foreign principal. This legal action also had the objective of making Noraid provide greater details about its fund-raising activities. The Justice Department hoped that victory in the case would bolster its contention that Noraid was bankrolling IRA violence in Northern Ireland. [^] We have every right to not only preach, but to present Islamic nations with a model of how to actively deal with such problems.
fat_boy wrote:
If their society became wealthy, they would drop militant islam the same way the irish dropped terrorism.
But it is militant islam that is largely preventing them from becoming wealthy.
fat_boy wrote:
how many of us have the balls to stand up and police, morally, our own societies?
How do you think we got here in the first place? "You get that which you tolerate" -- modified at 6:12 Wednesday 22nd February, 2006
US law enforcement tackling Noraid is one thing, but Noraid was still supported by part of US society! Musharaf is in the same situation. He wants to curb extreme islam in pakistan but support for it is still inherent in that society.
Stan Shannon wrote:
How do you think we got here in the first place
By running away, if you are referring to the US. Nunc est bibendum
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US law enforcement tackling Noraid is one thing, but Noraid was still supported by part of US society! Musharaf is in the same situation. He wants to curb extreme islam in pakistan but support for it is still inherent in that society.
Stan Shannon wrote:
How do you think we got here in the first place
By running away, if you are referring to the US. Nunc est bibendum
fat_boy wrote:
US law enforcement tackling Noraid is one thing, but Noraid was still supported by part of US society!
But that isn't the point. It is rediculous to say "oh look, there are people who support terrorism in the US, so the US has no right to lecture others!". The point is how the remainder of the society responds to those individuals. We, the people, simply do not tolerate extremist violence, those who do must hide away in the darkest corners of our society. That simple is not true in pakistan or other islamic countries - there it is the moderates who have to hide away.
fat_boy wrote:
By running away, if you are referring to the US.
From who? "You get that which you tolerate"
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fat_boy wrote:
US law enforcement tackling Noraid is one thing, but Noraid was still supported by part of US society!
But that isn't the point. It is rediculous to say "oh look, there are people who support terrorism in the US, so the US has no right to lecture others!". The point is how the remainder of the society responds to those individuals. We, the people, simply do not tolerate extremist violence, those who do must hide away in the darkest corners of our society. That simple is not true in pakistan or other islamic countries - there it is the moderates who have to hide away.
fat_boy wrote:
By running away, if you are referring to the US.
From who? "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
We, the people
We SOME of the people...
Stan Shannon wrote:
hide away in the darkest corners
Openly collecting money during a St Patricks day parade was not hiding away. I am not saying the support for the Ira was a strong as the support for Bin Laden is, but, there WAS support, and it was quite open.
Stan Shannon wrote:
From who
Religious persecution, that is why the pilgrims went to the US. Nunc est bibendum
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Stephen Hewitt wrote:
discount half of
not so. jesus just repealed (fulfilled) the "old" law and gave a new one. much of the old testament still applies (like the 10 commandments found in Genesis).
The law of handwritten ordinances was repealed. Those things added that had become a burden.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
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