Devastating.....:(
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Michel Prévost wrote:
In fact, what Iran do is what US probably do with other countries: weapon trading.
Only they're providing for terrorists who are killing countless civilians.
Speaking of killing civilians: Little Boy[^] Whether it is war or terrorism, civlians are killed. This is very sad in any event. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Can't the US make a better armour?:doh:, can't imagine if these sharpnels strike our body.:omg:, why not bush consider a pull out now? otherwise it will be too late :(. but i wish somehow, the americans pay back Iran someway. WTF:(^
VuNic
This spins so much like "Saddam was instrumental in assisting Al-Quida", or "Saddam is developing weapons of mass destruction". All I can say is prepare for the invasion, cause the pre-invasion propaganda is starting up. :(( Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] When I want privacy, I'll close the bathroom door. [Stan Shannon] BAD DAY FOR: Friendly competition, as Ford Motor Co. declared the employee parking lot at its truck plant in Dearborn, Mich., off limits to vehicles built by rival companies. Workers have to drive a Ford to work, or park across the street. [CNNMoney.com] Nice sig! [Tim Deveaux on Matt Newman's sig with a quote from me]
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This spins so much like "Saddam was instrumental in assisting Al-Quida", or "Saddam is developing weapons of mass destruction". All I can say is prepare for the invasion, cause the pre-invasion propaganda is starting up. :(( Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] When I want privacy, I'll close the bathroom door. [Stan Shannon] BAD DAY FOR: Friendly competition, as Ford Motor Co. declared the employee parking lot at its truck plant in Dearborn, Mich., off limits to vehicles built by rival companies. Workers have to drive a Ford to work, or park across the street. [CNNMoney.com] Nice sig! [Tim Deveaux on Matt Newman's sig with a quote from me]
Got my 5 on this. Very educated assumption. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Speaking of killing civilians: Little Boy[^] Whether it is war or terrorism, civlians are killed. This is very sad in any event. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Yes, it's sad we had to do that. However, the circumstances were quite different: 1. We were at formally at war with Japan (which they started). 2. They refused to surrender, which required a land invasion into the Japanese mainland. This would have resulted in millions of Japanese civilian deaths and countless American deaths. 3. The Japanese citizens were complicit with their government's tactics, as opposed to the Iraqis who are civilians trying to build peaceful lives in a seperate country. 4. Hiroshima was a target because its factories were producing weapons used against the Americans. 5. Smart bomb technology did not exist then, which is why it was a total war. When you bombed factories, you bombed the people near them. Most importantly, Iran is not at war with Iraq. Civilians die in every war, but when you're not at war with somebody and you're sending in troops to blow up civilian targets merely for bloodshed, it's despicable. America doesn't play that way.
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Yes, it's sad we had to do that. However, the circumstances were quite different: 1. We were at formally at war with Japan (which they started). 2. They refused to surrender, which required a land invasion into the Japanese mainland. This would have resulted in millions of Japanese civilian deaths and countless American deaths. 3. The Japanese citizens were complicit with their government's tactics, as opposed to the Iraqis who are civilians trying to build peaceful lives in a seperate country. 4. Hiroshima was a target because its factories were producing weapons used against the Americans. 5. Smart bomb technology did not exist then, which is why it was a total war. When you bombed factories, you bombed the people near them. Most importantly, Iran is not at war with Iraq. Civilians die in every war, but when you're not at war with somebody and you're sending in troops to blow up civilian targets merely for bloodshed, it's despicable. America doesn't play that way.
America the beautiful, the righteous, the religious, who spread love and prosperity. When they kill civilian, it is for a good reason. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 12:56 Tuesday 7th March, 2006
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America the beautiful, the righteous, the religious, who spread love and prosperity. When they kill civilian, it is for a good reason. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 12:56 Tuesday 7th March, 2006
Yeah, that's pretty much right. Which part of "Japan started the war" don't you understand? Which part of "Japan refused to surrender and millions of Japanese civilians would have been killed otherwise" don't you understand. I can't even imagine the evil that would persist in this world today if America wasn't there to stomp it out every time it popped up. So...You're very welcome.
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Yeah, that's pretty much right. Which part of "Japan started the war" don't you understand? Which part of "Japan refused to surrender and millions of Japanese civilians would have been killed otherwise" don't you understand. I can't even imagine the evil that would persist in this world today if America wasn't there to stomp it out every time it popped up. So...You're very welcome.
espeir wrote:
Which part of "Japan started the war" don't you understand?
What part of "US started the war on Iraq" don't you understand? Does this authorize Iraqis to throw an A-Bomb on NY?
espeir wrote:
Which part of "Japan refused to surrender and millions of Japanese civilians would have been killed otherwise" don't you understand.
Pure assumption. The problem with poeple like you is that you are not able to view things from another angle. In your mind, whatever the US does, it is right, and all the others are wrong. I don't say terrorist are right, I say your point of view is crooked. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 13:10 Tuesday 7th March, 2006
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espeir wrote:
Which part of "Japan started the war" don't you understand?
What part of "US started the war on Iraq" don't you understand? Does this authorize Iraqis to throw an A-Bomb on NY?
espeir wrote:
Which part of "Japan refused to surrender and millions of Japanese civilians would have been killed otherwise" don't you understand.
Pure assumption. The problem with poeple like you is that you are not able to view things from another angle. In your mind, whatever the US does, it is right, and all the others are wrong. I don't say terrorist are right, I say your point of view is crooked. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 13:10 Tuesday 7th March, 2006
Michel Prévost wrote:
What part of "US started the war on Iraq" don't you understand? Does this authorize Iraqis to throw an A-Bomb on NY?
I thought we were talking about Iran targetting Iraqi civilians. :confused: But no, there is no justification. Read my justification for America's use of the A-bomb on Japan, then tell me how an A-bomb on NY would serve Iraq, which was defeated in a matter of days. Q: Are we at war with Iraq? A: No Q: Would it save Iraqi or American lives? A: No, because we are no longer at war with Iraq. That ended within days. Q: Is Iraq in a position to offer surrender to America? A: No, because our war with them ended within days. Q: Are Americans complicit with our government? A: Yes. So if America were currently at war with America, American civilian casualties would be expected as long as Iraq were targetting military institutions (like factories, etc...). NY is not such a target as it is entirely civilian. However, I would concede that if America were in the same position as Japan was towards the end of WWII, that Americans would have to face up to their situation or potentially face an A-bomb. Fortunately, America is the land of the free and the brave, so we don't have to worry about that any time soon.
Michel Prévost wrote:
Pure assumption. The problem with poeple like you is that you are not able to view things from another angle. In your mind, whatever the US does, it is right, and all the others are wrong. I don't say terrorist are right, I say your point of view is crooked.
Wrong. This was THE justification for using the A-bomb. FDR did not want to use it and was very reluctant. Every US military leader feared landing on Japan's beaches, because those guys were just nuts back then. They invented suicide bombing. Japan refused surrender even after Nagasaki (a military installation) was nuked. America did not want to enter WWII. We were forced into it, and had to clean up the mess the rest of the world created. You're very welcome.
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Michel Prévost wrote:
What part of "US started the war on Iraq" don't you understand? Does this authorize Iraqis to throw an A-Bomb on NY?
I thought we were talking about Iran targetting Iraqi civilians. :confused: But no, there is no justification. Read my justification for America's use of the A-bomb on Japan, then tell me how an A-bomb on NY would serve Iraq, which was defeated in a matter of days. Q: Are we at war with Iraq? A: No Q: Would it save Iraqi or American lives? A: No, because we are no longer at war with Iraq. That ended within days. Q: Is Iraq in a position to offer surrender to America? A: No, because our war with them ended within days. Q: Are Americans complicit with our government? A: Yes. So if America were currently at war with America, American civilian casualties would be expected as long as Iraq were targetting military institutions (like factories, etc...). NY is not such a target as it is entirely civilian. However, I would concede that if America were in the same position as Japan was towards the end of WWII, that Americans would have to face up to their situation or potentially face an A-bomb. Fortunately, America is the land of the free and the brave, so we don't have to worry about that any time soon.
Michel Prévost wrote:
Pure assumption. The problem with poeple like you is that you are not able to view things from another angle. In your mind, whatever the US does, it is right, and all the others are wrong. I don't say terrorist are right, I say your point of view is crooked.
Wrong. This was THE justification for using the A-bomb. FDR did not want to use it and was very reluctant. Every US military leader feared landing on Japan's beaches, because those guys were just nuts back then. They invented suicide bombing. Japan refused surrender even after Nagasaki (a military installation) was nuked. America did not want to enter WWII. We were forced into it, and had to clean up the mess the rest of the world created. You're very welcome.
espeir wr<ote:
I thought we were talking about Iran targetting Iraqi civilians.
Hmmmm but it is the result of US war monging on Iraq.
espeir wrote:
Read my justification for America's use of the A-bomb on Ja
If there is no justification for a country to use a WMD, there is no justification for any country for using one, whatever the reason.
espeir wrote:
Fortunately, America is the land of the free and the brave
:rolleyes: -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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espeir wr<ote:
I thought we were talking about Iran targetting Iraqi civilians.
Hmmmm but it is the result of US war monging on Iraq.
espeir wrote:
Read my justification for America's use of the A-bomb on Ja
If there is no justification for a country to use a WMD, there is no justification for any country for using one, whatever the reason.
espeir wrote:
Fortunately, America is the land of the free and the brave
:rolleyes: -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
Hmmmm but it is the result of US war monging on Iraq.
Yes, it's the result of it. But, disregarding the numerous devastating terrorist attacks, what's going on in Iraq is a wonderful thing. It scares Iran, so they want to destroy it. How could you advocate in their favor? That's just being on the side of evil.
Michel Prévost wrote:
If there is no justification for a country to use a WMD, there is no justification for any country for using one, whatever the reason.
No? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall[^] Mortality estimates were as high as 800,000 on the American side and 10 million on the Japanese side. Compared that to the hundred and whatever thousand people killed by the nuclear. Granted that's the most pessimistic figure, the most optimistic placed the minimum number of deaths about 100,000 higher than the bombs produced. These figures don't include the fact that the entire country would have been pretty much destroyed. If you think that the fat man and little boy should not have been dropped, then I think that you might be a sociopath.
Michel Prévost wrote:
:rolleyes:
WOOOOOOO!!! AMERICAAAAAAAA!!! YEEEAAAAHHHH!!!! YEEEHAAWWWWW!!!
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This spins so much like "Saddam was instrumental in assisting Al-Quida", or "Saddam is developing weapons of mass destruction". All I can say is prepare for the invasion, cause the pre-invasion propaganda is starting up. :(( Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] When I want privacy, I'll close the bathroom door. [Stan Shannon] BAD DAY FOR: Friendly competition, as Ford Motor Co. declared the employee parking lot at its truck plant in Dearborn, Mich., off limits to vehicles built by rival companies. Workers have to drive a Ford to work, or park across the street. [CNNMoney.com] Nice sig! [Tim Deveaux on Matt Newman's sig with a quote from me]
nah, just find the factories producing these weapons and send a few "smart" cruise missles to blow them up.
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Michel Prévost wrote:
Hmmmm but it is the result of US war monging on Iraq.
Yes, it's the result of it. But, disregarding the numerous devastating terrorist attacks, what's going on in Iraq is a wonderful thing. It scares Iran, so they want to destroy it. How could you advocate in their favor? That's just being on the side of evil.
Michel Prévost wrote:
If there is no justification for a country to use a WMD, there is no justification for any country for using one, whatever the reason.
No? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall[^] Mortality estimates were as high as 800,000 on the American side and 10 million on the Japanese side. Compared that to the hundred and whatever thousand people killed by the nuclear. Granted that's the most pessimistic figure, the most optimistic placed the minimum number of deaths about 100,000 higher than the bombs produced. These figures don't include the fact that the entire country would have been pretty much destroyed. If you think that the fat man and little boy should not have been dropped, then I think that you might be a sociopath.
Michel Prévost wrote:
:rolleyes:
WOOOOOOO!!! AMERICAAAAAAAA!!! YEEEAAAAHHHH!!!! YEEEHAAWWWWW!!!
espeir wrote:
How could you advocate in their favor?
You are completely misinterpreting me. I will stop arguing with you, as you last line of your last post tells me a lot about your mind set. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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espeir wrote:
How could you advocate in their favor?
You are completely misinterpreting me. I will stop arguing with you, as you last line of your last post tells me a lot about your mind set. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
YEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! YIPEEEEEKYAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! LET'S KILL US SOME O' DEM CIVILIANSSSSSS!!!!!! YEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!
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Can't the US make a better armour?:doh:, can't imagine if these sharpnels strike our body.:omg:, why not bush consider a pull out now? otherwise it will be too late :(. but i wish somehow, the americans pay back Iran someway. WTF:(^
VuNic
... whatever the US criticizes about other doing evil things, you will always find something similar the US did in the past. That is it. I am not endorsing Iran's act, I despise terrorists. The problem with espeir that he is so blinded by propaganda that for a given action, if the US do it, good, the others, evil. That was the point I was trying to make. You have to be objective, to have a clear mind when looking at what is happening. That is it. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Can't the US make a better armour?:doh:, can't imagine if these sharpnels strike our body.:omg:, why not bush consider a pull out now? otherwise it will be too late :(. but i wish somehow, the americans pay back Iran someway. WTF:(^
VuNic
It sounds like they're using the core of a RPG9, it uses the same copper disc system. British tanks use a charged mesh so when the copper hits there is an arc which causes a massive dischage and disrupts the molten copper plug. The tigress is here :-D
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... whatever the US criticizes about other doing evil things, you will always find something similar the US did in the past. That is it. I am not endorsing Iran's act, I despise terrorists. The problem with espeir that he is so blinded by propaganda that for a given action, if the US do it, good, the others, evil. That was the point I was trying to make. You have to be objective, to have a clear mind when looking at what is happening. That is it. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
I'm not stupid. I know America has done bad things. However, the motivations behind virtually all American actions are noble. We have fought numerous wars in the name of bringing justice and democracy to citizens around the world. I challenge you to name one war within the past 100 years that America engaged in for profit. We have never kept the countries we have invaded. We have always rebuilt them to conditions better than before. And we have always left them much better off. The only exception I can think of is Vietnam, where America just kind of bungled and withdrew without making a truly positive difference (but not because we didn't try). I just find it terribly hypocritical that much of the world (Europe, I'm looking your way) has the nerve to criticise America for its noble (albeit challenging) position in the middle east when many of them owe their very existence to similar causes taken up by America.
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I'm not stupid. I know America has done bad things. However, the motivations behind virtually all American actions are noble. We have fought numerous wars in the name of bringing justice and democracy to citizens around the world. I challenge you to name one war within the past 100 years that America engaged in for profit. We have never kept the countries we have invaded. We have always rebuilt them to conditions better than before. And we have always left them much better off. The only exception I can think of is Vietnam, where America just kind of bungled and withdrew without making a truly positive difference (but not because we didn't try). I just find it terribly hypocritical that much of the world (Europe, I'm looking your way) has the nerve to criticise America for its noble (albeit challenging) position in the middle east when many of them owe their very existence to similar causes taken up by America.
espeir wrote:
I just find it terribly hypocritical that much of the world (Europe, I'm looking your way) has the nerve to criticise America for its noble (albeit challenging) position in the middle east when many of them owe their very existence to similar causes taken up by America.
You are right, my excuses. Everyone know that the good America invaded Iraq becasue Saddam Hussein had WMDs had Al-Qaeda links oppressed the Iraqi people. I am sure God will punish eupropeans, because God blesses America. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 14:29 Tuesday 7th March, 2006
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espeir wrote:
I just find it terribly hypocritical that much of the world (Europe, I'm looking your way) has the nerve to criticise America for its noble (albeit challenging) position in the middle east when many of them owe their very existence to similar causes taken up by America.
You are right, my excuses. Everyone know that the good America invaded Iraq becasue Saddam Hussein had WMDs had Al-Qaeda links oppressed the Iraqi people. I am sure God will punish eupropeans, because God blesses America. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 14:29 Tuesday 7th March, 2006
America invaded Iraq because it posed a threat to the entire world (which turned out to be less than expected). So America decided to go against the popular and self-centered opinions of the rest of the world and commit itself to ousting Saddam Hussein and bringing liberty to Iraq (and Afghanistan). Where are America's ignoble deeds? We spent hundreds of billions of dollars to take over a couple of countried only so we can give them back better than before. What do we get out of it? Regional stability. That's it. Why do we do it? Because America is the best country in the entire world. It's that simple. We're better than Canada. Better than Europe. Better than everyone. We rule.
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America invaded Iraq because it posed a threat to the entire world (which turned out to be less than expected). So America decided to go against the popular and self-centered opinions of the rest of the world and commit itself to ousting Saddam Hussein and bringing liberty to Iraq (and Afghanistan). Where are America's ignoble deeds? We spent hundreds of billions of dollars to take over a couple of countried only so we can give them back better than before. What do we get out of it? Regional stability. That's it. Why do we do it? Because America is the best country in the entire world. It's that simple. We're better than Canada. Better than Europe. Better than everyone. We rule.
Bravo. I am so proud of America, I wish I was american. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Bravo. I am so proud of America, I wish I was american. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
You can't be. It's the home of the brave. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!