Afghan convert going to get death sentence?
-
Pumk1nh3ad wrote:
But with Islam, the entire religion is based on violence.
Nah, just the later incarnation. Much like Jesus, Mohammed was a man of peace at first. When his message stopped being well-received, he, like Jesus, used more violent language but, unlike Jesus, Mohammed himself used violent means to attain his goals. Jesus left it to the Romans, French, Germans, English, Spanish and others to supply the violence necessary for Christianity to spread.
Jesus preached violence? That's news to me.
-
jan larsen wrote:
Nope, it never did. The nation you live in participated in a joint effort between Britain, USSR and USA.
Britain and the USSR were doomed without the US. Why do you think we jumped in? So that our soldiers could have afternoon tea.
jan larsen wrote:
And, I owe my existance to my father and my mother
Yes you do. And they owe their existence to your grandparents. And they owe their existence to some guy who drove through Denmark in a Jeep last century. Also, thanks to our might, the USSR did not progress past East Germany. While you might still exist had they done so, you'd be wearing a lot more gray as you stood in line for bread.
espeir wrote:
Why do you think we jumped in? So that our soldiers could have afternoon tea.
No, you joined in because it was becoming really annoying how the German subs kept sinking your merchant vessels. Business as usual.
espeir wrote:
Yes you do. And they owe their existence to your grandparents.
My grandfather planted roadside bombs and deranged trains while your grandparents were sipping coffe and wondering if good old Adolf might turn out to be a good trading partner when the war was over.
espeir wrote:
Also, thanks to our might, the USSR did not progress past East Germany. While you might still exist had they done so, you'd be wearing a lot more gray as you stood in line for bread.
While fantasizing about alternative history can be very amusing, I would consider that outcome highly improbable. Look, we have been occupied several times through history, and we're still a very independant nation. Even if the USSR had had the resources to extend their realm to our territory, we would have made it. I can see that all the cold war propaganda is still hanging around, but try visiting eg. Praque and see for yourself that other nations actually did make it through. "God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr
-
:laugh: Name one secular government. But I'll go ahead and play this game: Mormonism.
The Swedish government comes to mind. The Norwegian government also comes to mind. The Finnish. The Icelandic. The Danish. I can't recall any of them having violated human rights since they became secular. They've all been at war at some point, so I guess it all depends on a point of view.
espeir wrote:
But I'll go ahead and play this game: Mormonism.
That's probably one of the few. I don't think Buddhists have ever violated human rights. But then again, neither of these religions have established power over a nation, or a sufficiently large population, in order to do whatever they want. Power corrupts. Even more so, whenever you can back your words with God. I think the rise and fall of the catholic church is proof of that. As well as the rise of Islam. -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
-
France's stockpile is far too small to destroy the US at the push of a button. They might be able to take out a couple of cities, but the US would create a new body of water called the Sea of France. Besides, these are the people that make Peugot. I'm guessing one out of ten actually work.
-
espeir wrote:
Why do you think we jumped in? So that our soldiers could have afternoon tea.
No, you joined in because it was becoming really annoying how the German subs kept sinking your merchant vessels. Business as usual.
espeir wrote:
Yes you do. And they owe their existence to your grandparents.
My grandfather planted roadside bombs and deranged trains while your grandparents were sipping coffe and wondering if good old Adolf might turn out to be a good trading partner when the war was over.
espeir wrote:
Also, thanks to our might, the USSR did not progress past East Germany. While you might still exist had they done so, you'd be wearing a lot more gray as you stood in line for bread.
While fantasizing about alternative history can be very amusing, I would consider that outcome highly improbable. Look, we have been occupied several times through history, and we're still a very independant nation. Even if the USSR had had the resources to extend their realm to our territory, we would have made it. I can see that all the cold war propaganda is still hanging around, but try visiting eg. Praque and see for yourself that other nations actually did make it through. "God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr
jan larsen wrote:
No, you joined in because it was becoming really annoying how the German subs kept sinking your merchant vessels. Business as usual.
Funny. I thought it was Pearl Harbor.
jan larsen wrote:
My grandfather planted roadside bombs and deranged trains while your grandparents were sipping coffe and wondering if good old Adolf might turn out to be a good trading partner when the war was over.
Huh? America took Hitler down. Why would we plan on being his trading partner? Ask your grandfather how effective he was planting bombs. Ask him if his little bombs would have gotten anywhere without America's big bombs. Ask him if he's grateful and if he's proud of his ungrateful little snot of a grandson.
jan larsen wrote:
While fantasizing about alternative history can be very amusing, I would consider that outcome highly improbable. Look, we have been occupied several times through history, and we're still a very independant nation. Even if the USSR had had the resources to extend their realm to our territory, we would have made it. I can see that all the cold war propaganda is still hanging around, but try visiting eg. Praque and see for yourself that other nations actually did make it through.
It's hardly alternate. Expansion was the USSR's goal. Why do you think NATO was formed? Ever hear of Vietnam? Afghanistan? Denmark was on the list. America just kept the USSR at bay. Prague made it through for one reason...America. You're welcome. :cool:
-
France's stockpile is far too small to destroy the US at the push of a button. They might be able to take out a couple of cities, but the US would create a new body of water called the Sea of France. Besides, these are the people that make Peugot. I'm guessing one out of ten actually work.
espeir wrote:
called the Sea of France.
Is that what they call French immersion? ;P I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
-
How is that relevant? Of course France has nuclear weapons (and a dozen other countries). They just can't get them here in any significant quantity.
-
Just because some people use a certain religion as an excuse to violate human rights (i.e. the Catholic Church) doesnt make the religion bad. But with Islam, the entire religion is based on violence.
Islam is the same crap as Judaism and Christianity. The main difference is that the middle east has become so saturated with Islam, there's nothing but Islam. Islam has got a powerful hold over the population. And what can you do, but abide to idiocy, if you can't go against God?! Why is it so hard to see that if you don't keep religion on a short leash, bad shit will happen!? It's so obvious! :sigh: -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
-
That's because he doesn't have sufficient power from the government. And even if he did, he wouldn't get away with it internationally - it would be economic suicide to attack France.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
it would be economic suicide to attack France.
They have done it before... I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
-
The Swedish government comes to mind. The Norwegian government also comes to mind. The Finnish. The Icelandic. The Danish. I can't recall any of them having violated human rights since they became secular. They've all been at war at some point, so I guess it all depends on a point of view.
espeir wrote:
But I'll go ahead and play this game: Mormonism.
That's probably one of the few. I don't think Buddhists have ever violated human rights. But then again, neither of these religions have established power over a nation, or a sufficiently large population, in order to do whatever they want. Power corrupts. Even more so, whenever you can back your words with God. I think the rise and fall of the catholic church is proof of that. As well as the rise of Islam. -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
Sweden and Norway both have abortion on demand. That's violation number one without even researching the topic. Try again. So far religions 2, secular governments 0. I could name virtually all religions (except Islam) if we only went back a hundred years or so, but you're saying since the beginning of time so naturally over a couple thousand years there will be some people that decide to whack off a few others who hold some religious position.
-
Islam is the same crap as Judaism and Christianity. The main difference is that the middle east has become so saturated with Islam, there's nothing but Islam. Islam has got a powerful hold over the population. And what can you do, but abide to idiocy, if you can't go against God?! Why is it so hard to see that if you don't keep religion on a short leash, bad shit will happen!? It's so obvious! :sigh: -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
You need to get an edumacation.
-
Your logic is faulty. A religion can't violate human rights, it's an abstract concept. Only people can violate human rights. Just because some people go to extremes, and that goes for politics too (extreme left, extreme right) doesn't necessarily brand whatever group they belong to as extremist. There are some Democrats and Republicans (in the US) that are extremists, does that mean all Republicans or all Democrats or all political parties are extreme or bad? Some right-to-lifers have killed doctors who have performed abortions. Does that mean that the "Right-to-life" group has violated human rights??? So it is with Religion. Just because some people who belong to a particular religion go to extremes, and even say they're doing it in the "name of their religion" or "their God", doesn't mean everyone in that religion agrees with the extremists' actions. Nor should everyone in that religion nor should ALL Religions be painted with such a brush just because there are some bad PEOPLE. Again, people violate human rights, not some abstract concept. But, as espeir said, Mormonism[^] has not viloated anybodys rights. ---sig---
Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus MackayA religion is nothing but its followers. A religion without followers, is not a religion. It is not an abstract concept, but a very real concept. Ask any devout believer in any religion if what he or she believes is just an abstract concept. What I'm saying is that if you let crazy ideas such as "God demands X" on the loose, and people believe in it, bad shit will happen. It has happened, it does happen, and it will happen.
ahz wrote:
But, as espeir said, Mormonism[^] has not viloated anybodys rights.
I'm not going argue against you, because I don't know Mormonism that well. But I do know that if the USA was under Mormon law, and you objected to its teachings, you and I would not be arguing about anything. You'd most likely be dead. -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
-
The Swedish government comes to mind. The Norwegian government also comes to mind. The Finnish. The Icelandic. The Danish. I can't recall any of them having violated human rights since they became secular. They've all been at war at some point, so I guess it all depends on a point of view.
espeir wrote:
But I'll go ahead and play this game: Mormonism.
That's probably one of the few. I don't think Buddhists have ever violated human rights. But then again, neither of these religions have established power over a nation, or a sufficiently large population, in order to do whatever they want. Power corrupts. Even more so, whenever you can back your words with God. I think the rise and fall of the catholic church is proof of that. As well as the rise of Islam. -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Even more so, whenever you can back your words with God.
Care to compare the Catholic church to the USSR and Mao. They were such peaceful guys without the corrupting power of church behing them. I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
-
You need to get an edumacation.
-
jan larsen wrote:
No, you joined in because it was becoming really annoying how the German subs kept sinking your merchant vessels. Business as usual.
Funny. I thought it was Pearl Harbor.
jan larsen wrote:
My grandfather planted roadside bombs and deranged trains while your grandparents were sipping coffe and wondering if good old Adolf might turn out to be a good trading partner when the war was over.
Huh? America took Hitler down. Why would we plan on being his trading partner? Ask your grandfather how effective he was planting bombs. Ask him if his little bombs would have gotten anywhere without America's big bombs. Ask him if he's grateful and if he's proud of his ungrateful little snot of a grandson.
jan larsen wrote:
While fantasizing about alternative history can be very amusing, I would consider that outcome highly improbable. Look, we have been occupied several times through history, and we're still a very independant nation. Even if the USSR had had the resources to extend their realm to our territory, we would have made it. I can see that all the cold war propaganda is still hanging around, but try visiting eg. Praque and see for yourself that other nations actually did make it through.
It's hardly alternate. Expansion was the USSR's goal. Why do you think NATO was formed? Ever hear of Vietnam? Afghanistan? Denmark was on the list. America just kept the USSR at bay. Prague made it through for one reason...America. You're welcome. :cool:
espeir wrote:
Funny. I thought it was Pearl Harbor.
Well, it wasn't...
espeir wrote:
Huh? America took Hitler down. Why would we plan on being his trading partner? Ask your grandfather how effective he was planting bombs. Ask him if his little bombs would have gotten anywhere without America's big bombs. Ask him if he's grateful and if he's proud of his ungrateful little snot of a grandson.
I can't, he's dead. Remember my young friend, this was in the last century. Anyway, he was a communist, so I think he would actually have appreciated being 'liberated' by the USSR.
espeir wrote:
It's hardly alternate. Expansion was the USSR's goal. Why do you think NATO was formed? Ever hear of Vietnam? Afghanistan? Denmark was on the list. America just kept the USSR at bay. Prague made it through for one reason...America. You're welcome.
During the cold war every nation was a valid victim for the expansion either USA or USSR. While I appreciate the marshall help, I'm glad that we had Britain and France to keep the USSR at bay while you guys were meddling in the Asia region. As to the collapse of the USSR: that was inevitable, allthough very few would have guessed that it would come that soon. The USSR had it's finest days during the cold war, dictatorships thrive in an athmosphere where national values are attacked from external sources. "God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr
-
Oh brother...Try to keep up. :omg:
-
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Even more so, whenever you can back your words with God.
Care to compare the Catholic church to the USSR and Mao. They were such peaceful guys without the corrupting power of church behing them. I'm pretty sure I would not like to live in a world in which I would never be offended. I am absolutely certain I don't want to live in a world in which you would never be offended. Dave
-
A religion is nothing but its followers. A religion without followers, is not a religion. It is not an abstract concept, but a very real concept. Ask any devout believer in any religion if what he or she believes is just an abstract concept. What I'm saying is that if you let crazy ideas such as "God demands X" on the loose, and people believe in it, bad shit will happen. It has happened, it does happen, and it will happen.
ahz wrote:
But, as espeir said, Mormonism[^] has not viloated anybodys rights.
I'm not going argue against you, because I don't know Mormonism that well. But I do know that if the USA was under Mormon law, and you objected to its teachings, you and I would not be arguing about anything. You'd most likely be dead. -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
By your logic then, all politics violates human rights. After all, by your logic, what is a political system or philosophy without it's followers or adherents? Since the US government, the Soviet government, the British government, the Iranian government, the Cuban government, the French government (all politcal systems which each follow a unique particular philosphy) have all viloated human rights, then all polical parties violate human rights. Therefore, YOU violate human rights by being alive and believing in a polical philosphy. What a bunch of crap. ---sig---
Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay -
A religion is nothing but its followers. A religion without followers, is not a religion. It is not an abstract concept, but a very real concept. Ask any devout believer in any religion if what he or she believes is just an abstract concept. What I'm saying is that if you let crazy ideas such as "God demands X" on the loose, and people believe in it, bad shit will happen. It has happened, it does happen, and it will happen.
ahz wrote:
But, as espeir said, Mormonism[^] has not viloated anybodys rights.
I'm not going argue against you, because I don't know Mormonism that well. But I do know that if the USA was under Mormon law, and you objected to its teachings, you and I would not be arguing about anything. You'd most likely be dead. -- Pictures[^] from my Japan trip.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
I'm not going argue against you, because I don't know Mormonism that well. But I do know that if the USA was under Mormon law, and you objected to its teachings, you and I would not be arguing about anything. You'd most likely be dead.
That's very idiotic. I'm not Mormon, but Mormonism is a very American religion. They've never forced anybody to join. Sure they try really hard to convince you, but it's not like the secular EU or anything where they repeatedly force you to vote on a constitution (against their own rules) until you finally give in.
-
And yet history says just the opposite. The only Christian violence you can name is either very isolated or very, very old. The secular violence is very prevelant and very recent (and current).