Training new drivers
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BBC News: Teenage driver deaths on the rise[^] It is terribly sad that four people lost their lives to those two idiots, and I sincerely hope that neither of man will be allowed to drive unsupervised again. However some of the reactions to that and the well timed report that young driver - i.e. male - deaths are rising are very worrying. If all it takes to get wide-reaching food standards mandated on schools is an interview with a spikey-haired TV chef on primetime TV, I dread to think what righteous public opinion could do as we move towards national elections in a few years time. One option put forward is for a curfew on teenagers driving late at night, when most accidents involving teenagers occur. In order for that to be effective, the age limit would need to be set to at least 24 (the age of one driver named in that article). So that means... about half of the twentysomethings in the country would not be able to hold jobs that required working late or evenings. That rules out most of the jobs available to them (moreso given the lack of basic skills children are leaving schools with today), and discriminates against people living out of the city centers (heaven forbid that the government would ever approve such a thing). Others suggest raising the age at which you can take your driving test to 25, and I've even heard it mentioned at 30. That will make a significant reduction in the number of road fatalities, but so will banning all drivers on the roads. Do the people putting forward this idea not realise that they would be preventing 99% of under 25's or under 30's from obtaining any employment at all? It is very rare that you will find a job that does not require travelling at times or to areas not covered by public transport. It is just so absurdly... absurd... it is hard to imagine that these people are serious. We don't all live in self-contained city blocks - many of our cities, towns and villages have existed since Roman or Saxon times and their layout and infrastructure has not much improved. So what else could be done? One safety group called BRAKE has suggested that driving tests for young drivers be limited to driving at 30mph, yet as one BBC News reader points out - the majority of the out-of-city roads in this country are 60mph. So you are not training people to drive at realistic speeds. I can see th
I'm 30 and have just got my provisional driving license :), I have always lived in an Urban area. Main reason I am learning to drive is that consulting pretty much requires it - I have picked and choosed the contracts I have taken before now based on the availability of public transport and their support for telecommuting. Having a salaried position and not driving really isn't all that problematic for me personally, but I realise the fact I work in software gives me a much greater degree of flexibility in working (and I can afford to live near a city center) than most people, especially the under 25's. Living anywhere with significant ammounts of grass and not driving is certainly not an option though, I remember my time in Bichester - getting anywhere required a car, public transport was near to useless. Ryan
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BBC News: Teenage driver deaths on the rise[^] It is terribly sad that four people lost their lives to those two idiots, and I sincerely hope that neither of man will be allowed to drive unsupervised again. However some of the reactions to that and the well timed report that young driver - i.e. male - deaths are rising are very worrying. If all it takes to get wide-reaching food standards mandated on schools is an interview with a spikey-haired TV chef on primetime TV, I dread to think what righteous public opinion could do as we move towards national elections in a few years time. One option put forward is for a curfew on teenagers driving late at night, when most accidents involving teenagers occur. In order for that to be effective, the age limit would need to be set to at least 24 (the age of one driver named in that article). So that means... about half of the twentysomethings in the country would not be able to hold jobs that required working late or evenings. That rules out most of the jobs available to them (moreso given the lack of basic skills children are leaving schools with today), and discriminates against people living out of the city centers (heaven forbid that the government would ever approve such a thing). Others suggest raising the age at which you can take your driving test to 25, and I've even heard it mentioned at 30. That will make a significant reduction in the number of road fatalities, but so will banning all drivers on the roads. Do the people putting forward this idea not realise that they would be preventing 99% of under 25's or under 30's from obtaining any employment at all? It is very rare that you will find a job that does not require travelling at times or to areas not covered by public transport. It is just so absurdly... absurd... it is hard to imagine that these people are serious. We don't all live in self-contained city blocks - many of our cities, towns and villages have existed since Roman or Saxon times and their layout and infrastructure has not much improved. So what else could be done? One safety group called BRAKE has suggested that driving tests for young drivers be limited to driving at 30mph, yet as one BBC News reader points out - the majority of the out-of-city roads in this country are 60mph. So you are not training people to drive at realistic speeds. I can see th
I would say more realistica sentences for people who drive whilst disqualified. How many are repeat offenders? The tigress is here :-D
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BBC News: Teenage driver deaths on the rise[^] It is terribly sad that four people lost their lives to those two idiots, and I sincerely hope that neither of man will be allowed to drive unsupervised again. However some of the reactions to that and the well timed report that young driver - i.e. male - deaths are rising are very worrying. If all it takes to get wide-reaching food standards mandated on schools is an interview with a spikey-haired TV chef on primetime TV, I dread to think what righteous public opinion could do as we move towards national elections in a few years time. One option put forward is for a curfew on teenagers driving late at night, when most accidents involving teenagers occur. In order for that to be effective, the age limit would need to be set to at least 24 (the age of one driver named in that article). So that means... about half of the twentysomethings in the country would not be able to hold jobs that required working late or evenings. That rules out most of the jobs available to them (moreso given the lack of basic skills children are leaving schools with today), and discriminates against people living out of the city centers (heaven forbid that the government would ever approve such a thing). Others suggest raising the age at which you can take your driving test to 25, and I've even heard it mentioned at 30. That will make a significant reduction in the number of road fatalities, but so will banning all drivers on the roads. Do the people putting forward this idea not realise that they would be preventing 99% of under 25's or under 30's from obtaining any employment at all? It is very rare that you will find a job that does not require travelling at times or to areas not covered by public transport. It is just so absurdly... absurd... it is hard to imagine that these people are serious. We don't all live in self-contained city blocks - many of our cities, towns and villages have existed since Roman or Saxon times and their layout and infrastructure has not much improved. So what else could be done? One safety group called BRAKE has suggested that driving tests for young drivers be limited to driving at 30mph, yet as one BBC News reader points out - the majority of the out-of-city roads in this country are 60mph. So you are not training people to drive at realistic speeds. I can see th
You miss the point though. These deaths are caused by young men getting their kicks driving fast on the road. Take one of these out of the equation and you get no more deaths. 1) What more can be done to control speed. Not much. There is plenty already, and yet people still speed. 2) Take it off road. Nunc est bibendum
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Did/does your son learn with you? I think learning with my dad helped me a lot because he was able to point out the ways that problems can occur and, importantly, how best to deal with them. Ideally a professional instructor should do the same, but costs add up quickly as they are in high demand. Like you - and I expect every other driver out there - I make mistakes on the road and always will do, but at least I know how to avoid a few more of them, and how to minimise my effect on other road users.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
David Wulff wrote:
I think learning with my dad helped me a lot because he was able to point out the ways that problems can occur and, importantly, how best to deal with them.
I was very lucky in that respect too. Also, my dad was a police instructor for a while so I think that also helped a lot.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
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I would say more realistica sentences for people who drive whilst disqualified. How many are repeat offenders? The tigress is here :-D
That is a good point. How about biometric driving licenses that are read by your car before you can drive it?
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
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David Wulff wrote:
Opinions? Suggestions?
As a parent of a 15 year old, this is the thing I dread the most, that my son, as an inexperienced driver, will be involved in an injury/fatality, or that he will be a passenger of another inexperienced driver. Not that experience is the answer, but in general, what I mean by "experienced" is someone who doesn't think they're invincible, and doesn't do stupid things. Heaven knows, I still do stupid things driving. So, I really haven't a clue how to approach this phase of being a parent. Though I did just recently have a discussion with Ian, that he's going to have to be able to pay for his car and his car insurance himself. I'm not footing the bill. Perhaps with financial responsibility there will also be a sense of driver responsibility. Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
When my son gets old enough to drive (I'm looking ahead here: he's 2), I plan on scaring the crap out of him with stories I know of people in horrible tragic accidents. I know several that happened to friends/family of mine. Driving still scares me a bit (I didn't get my license until I was 23--but I lived in Boston with plenty of public transportation), and I enjoy pointing out how the media enjoys scaring the willies out of us about two people in Asia who died of bird flu, yet 40,000 people a YEAR die in the US from car accidents, with barely a notice. Seriously, I think if our local news or CNN had a ticker going at the bottom of the screen with a running number of auto fatalities, people would be a hell of a lot more careful on the road. I'm not saying drive timid (I'm from Boston; I believe the best defense is a good offense :))... but respect what you're doing and pay attention while behind the wheel of a four wheeled death machine.
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BBC News: Teenage driver deaths on the rise[^] It is terribly sad that four people lost their lives to those two idiots, and I sincerely hope that neither of man will be allowed to drive unsupervised again. However some of the reactions to that and the well timed report that young driver - i.e. male - deaths are rising are very worrying. If all it takes to get wide-reaching food standards mandated on schools is an interview with a spikey-haired TV chef on primetime TV, I dread to think what righteous public opinion could do as we move towards national elections in a few years time. One option put forward is for a curfew on teenagers driving late at night, when most accidents involving teenagers occur. In order for that to be effective, the age limit would need to be set to at least 24 (the age of one driver named in that article). So that means... about half of the twentysomethings in the country would not be able to hold jobs that required working late or evenings. That rules out most of the jobs available to them (moreso given the lack of basic skills children are leaving schools with today), and discriminates against people living out of the city centers (heaven forbid that the government would ever approve such a thing). Others suggest raising the age at which you can take your driving test to 25, and I've even heard it mentioned at 30. That will make a significant reduction in the number of road fatalities, but so will banning all drivers on the roads. Do the people putting forward this idea not realise that they would be preventing 99% of under 25's or under 30's from obtaining any employment at all? It is very rare that you will find a job that does not require travelling at times or to areas not covered by public transport. It is just so absurdly... absurd... it is hard to imagine that these people are serious. We don't all live in self-contained city blocks - many of our cities, towns and villages have existed since Roman or Saxon times and their layout and infrastructure has not much improved. So what else could be done? One safety group called BRAKE has suggested that driving tests for young drivers be limited to driving at 30mph, yet as one BBC News reader points out - the majority of the out-of-city roads in this country are 60mph. So you are not training people to drive at realistic speeds. I can see th
There are a few problems involved, not the least of which being that teenagers all think they're invincible. We all do at that age, and it takes until the mid-thirties to begin to appreciate one's own mortality. I suspect that's the sobering effect of having buried a few friends by that age, for most of us. A lack of acceptance of personal responsibility is another factor, an epidemic in young people these days. They have been raised in a permissive environment, free of consequences for their wrongful actions. Parents and teachers alike are forbidden to discipline kids for their behaviors, and the result is a generation of people with little respect for others and no sense of responsibility for the things they do that harm themselves and others. Lastly, they receive no training in real world hazards on the road. When I was a kid we had to spend hours in simulators before we were allowed behind the wheel with an instructor. In simulation we practiced normal driving at first, then responding to sudden events, like a kid running out into the street between parked cars. In the late '70s budget cuts removed simulators from the classroom in the PRC, later followed by eliminating instructor-supervised behind the wheel training. So, we now dump untrained, irresponsible, and immortal (in their own minds) kids onto the road with a high speed lethal weapon and expect results we're going to like? I don't think so. Toss in freely available alcohol and drugs, and you have the deadly situation we see today. We deserve it. "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
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Woops, sorry. I knew the legal age limit was lower in the States, and assumed it must have been 15. :-O
Marc Clifton wrote:
I especially am interested in the ones that teach you how to handle a car in wet/ice conditions, skids, etc.
That's a really good idea. I took maybe 8 months with my father and 10 hours with an instructor before my test. The instructor training was basically to teach me how to pass the test (and to learn the test routes). Being blessed in this part of the country with every kind of road imaginable I got plenty of experience at controlling a car in snow, ice, zero visibility, wet mud, flooded roads, etc. So far *touch wood* I haven't had any accidents, but I have avoided a couple that I'm certain I would not necessarily have done if it wasn't for that extra experience. I expect my dad probably had the same fears/concerns about it as you do with your son. In that case I'm sure Ian will get a good start. :cool:
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
The age limit varies from state to state. In Ohio, it is possible for a 15 1/2 year old to get a permit that requires a legal guardian to be in the car at all times. The earliest age a young driver can get a license is 16,however, he or she must have 50 hours of driving logged on a piece of paper and have it notorized. And he or she must have completed a driver training course either through school or a private instructor. Brett A. Whittington Application Developer
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There are a few problems involved, not the least of which being that teenagers all think they're invincible. We all do at that age, and it takes until the mid-thirties to begin to appreciate one's own mortality. I suspect that's the sobering effect of having buried a few friends by that age, for most of us. A lack of acceptance of personal responsibility is another factor, an epidemic in young people these days. They have been raised in a permissive environment, free of consequences for their wrongful actions. Parents and teachers alike are forbidden to discipline kids for their behaviors, and the result is a generation of people with little respect for others and no sense of responsibility for the things they do that harm themselves and others. Lastly, they receive no training in real world hazards on the road. When I was a kid we had to spend hours in simulators before we were allowed behind the wheel with an instructor. In simulation we practiced normal driving at first, then responding to sudden events, like a kid running out into the street between parked cars. In the late '70s budget cuts removed simulators from the classroom in the PRC, later followed by eliminating instructor-supervised behind the wheel training. So, we now dump untrained, irresponsible, and immortal (in their own minds) kids onto the road with a high speed lethal weapon and expect results we're going to like? I don't think so. Toss in freely available alcohol and drugs, and you have the deadly situation we see today. We deserve it. "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
Roger Wright wrote:
later followed by eliminating instructor-supervised behind the wheel training
You mean... there is no requirement for personal supervision? :wtf:
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
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There are a few problems involved, not the least of which being that teenagers all think they're invincible. We all do at that age, and it takes until the mid-thirties to begin to appreciate one's own mortality. I suspect that's the sobering effect of having buried a few friends by that age, for most of us. A lack of acceptance of personal responsibility is another factor, an epidemic in young people these days. They have been raised in a permissive environment, free of consequences for their wrongful actions. Parents and teachers alike are forbidden to discipline kids for their behaviors, and the result is a generation of people with little respect for others and no sense of responsibility for the things they do that harm themselves and others. Lastly, they receive no training in real world hazards on the road. When I was a kid we had to spend hours in simulators before we were allowed behind the wheel with an instructor. In simulation we practiced normal driving at first, then responding to sudden events, like a kid running out into the street between parked cars. In the late '70s budget cuts removed simulators from the classroom in the PRC, later followed by eliminating instructor-supervised behind the wheel training. So, we now dump untrained, irresponsible, and immortal (in their own minds) kids onto the road with a high speed lethal weapon and expect results we're going to like? I don't think so. Toss in freely available alcohol and drugs, and you have the deadly situation we see today. We deserve it. "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
"Parents and teachers alike are forbidden to discipline kids for their behaviors, and the result is a generation of people with little respect for others and no sense of responsibility for the things they do that harm themselves and others. " I second your sentiment. If somehow all parents could all agree to start instilling the concept of "personal responsibility and accountability" in the lil darlins, then society as a whole would benefit. A few good parents cannot make up for the lack in others. And you're right, somehow currently parents and teachers are discouraged from disciplining children in fear of destroying the children's self-esteems. I think it has backfired terribly, and we will all pay a high price for it, imho. :rose: blueSprite