Protest Against Reservation in India
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Indians and reservations? It worked for us. "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
Indians and reservations? It worked for us.
:-D Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. -
Your probably have heard of the caste system that exists in India. After independence, the Indian government brought in a system of reservation so certain percentage of college admissions and government job vacancies are reserved for people from lower castes [including the tribals]. The aim is the upbringing of the socially and economically backward castes. This is a logically correct move, IMO, since it would be tough for people in economically and socially backward communities to compete against the affluent section, when it comes to academics [and other areas obviously]. The system has been quite effective though it has still not produced the expected results - either due to the misuse of the system or due to the upper caste officials' efforts to hijack the system. A lot of the upper caste people are protesting against it saying that it's taking away their opportunities. While it is true to some extent, what they are ignoring is the fact that the lower caste people were suppressed for centuries. Very often the vacancies in the reservation category are left unfilled because there are not enough eligible candidates [not because there aren't enough lower caste people, in fact they are the majority, but because they are still downtrodden they can't even afford to get elementary education]. There are occasions where the system gets misused where it's the third or fourth generation of the same family which utilises the reservation system [which is not that fair if you come to think about it], and it is because of this minority that a lot of people think the reservation system is an evil. In reality it is not. India still has to go a long way to improve the social conditions of the lower castes. A better and effective implementation of the reservation system is what people should ask for, not a total ban of it. If I am right, forms of reservation exist in North America too. I have heard of financial support provided by the government for the economically backward people, in Canada - which actually is paid by the taxes that they collect from the affluent majority. It's the communist principle of transferring money from the have's to the have-not's. - Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
Wow - good points :-) For a long while, I hated the reservation system - I missed out on a lower-fee seat for engineering because a reservation candidate (with a lower score than mine) got it. And I always held that against the system. Years later, I understood its intended purpose and now I am for reservation - but not the way it's implemented now in India. The mechanism needs to be rethought and properly implemented for it to have any practical use. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. -
Wow - good points :-) For a long while, I hated the reservation system - I missed out on a lower-fee seat for engineering because a reservation candidate (with a lower score than mine) got it. And I always held that against the system. Years later, I understood its intended purpose and now I am for reservation - but not the way it's implemented now in India. The mechanism needs to be rethought and properly implemented for it to have any practical use. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications.Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
The mechanism needs to be rethought and properly implemented for it to have any practical use.
My point exactly. Cheers Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
The mechanism needs to be rethought and properly implemented for it to have any practical use.
My point exactly. Cheers Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
Get a room, you two :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Get a room, you two :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
The mechanism needs to be rethought and properly implemented for it to have any practical use.
My point exactly. Cheers Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
Smitha, The reservation system is taking people to a dangerous track. It's not so harfull if it's happening in the Engineering world( to some extent it's still dangerous!, for eg: a plan crash because of a mech. snag, but the root cause would still be the poor maintenance by the engineer or the techinician.).. but imagine the same in the medical world. hmm? They are operating with human lives. They should be extremely skilled. When you really consider the values of the human lives, You should really think about the quality of the doctor who work on it. Imagine an upper caste student who's very good in biology, he manages to get above 90% but he still stays out of the medical college just because of this reservation system. and on the other hand, a poor student from a lower caste manages to take around 60% but he makes a cake walk into the medical college. Can you imagine the consequence? I still remember an incident. My aunt is a Doctor, she's just 8 years elder to me. when she was doing her MBBS, I used to visit her in her college. she points me few people and tells the story behind them! pathetic but purely dangerous! They never manage to pass an exams, so they fail over and over that when every other people finish their MBBS in 5 years, they take 7 years. They were REALLY poor in their subjects. Here *subject* is not simply an Algebra or Calculus. It's all about the human body, every mistake they make there, is a loss of a human being. :(. And now atlast she's(Anitha) finished her MBBS and she's sitting inside her own clinic with a name board "Anitha M.B.B.S"..(Certainly a munna Bhai!!) So you still think its safe to maintain this reservation system?? If you get a cold would you dare to consult with Dr. Anitha??... also please note that the Govt. has given them 50 years. If they had used it properly, they would have taken themselves to a better level. If at all they still want to help the lowercaste, let them keep the reservation system, but they should certainly maintain a "cutoff" percentage in marks. A guy who has scored 50% shouldn't be given a seat just because he's better than a guy who has scored 45%. So do think I might be right?
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Smitha, The reservation system is taking people to a dangerous track. It's not so harfull if it's happening in the Engineering world( to some extent it's still dangerous!, for eg: a plan crash because of a mech. snag, but the root cause would still be the poor maintenance by the engineer or the techinician.).. but imagine the same in the medical world. hmm? They are operating with human lives. They should be extremely skilled. When you really consider the values of the human lives, You should really think about the quality of the doctor who work on it. Imagine an upper caste student who's very good in biology, he manages to get above 90% but he still stays out of the medical college just because of this reservation system. and on the other hand, a poor student from a lower caste manages to take around 60% but he makes a cake walk into the medical college. Can you imagine the consequence? I still remember an incident. My aunt is a Doctor, she's just 8 years elder to me. when she was doing her MBBS, I used to visit her in her college. she points me few people and tells the story behind them! pathetic but purely dangerous! They never manage to pass an exams, so they fail over and over that when every other people finish their MBBS in 5 years, they take 7 years. They were REALLY poor in their subjects. Here *subject* is not simply an Algebra or Calculus. It's all about the human body, every mistake they make there, is a loss of a human being. :(. And now atlast she's(Anitha) finished her MBBS and she's sitting inside her own clinic with a name board "Anitha M.B.B.S"..(Certainly a munna Bhai!!) So you still think its safe to maintain this reservation system?? If you get a cold would you dare to consult with Dr. Anitha??... also please note that the Govt. has given them 50 years. If they had used it properly, they would have taken themselves to a better level. If at all they still want to help the lowercaste, let them keep the reservation system, but they should certainly maintain a "cutoff" percentage in marks. A guy who has scored 50% shouldn't be given a seat just because he's better than a guy who has scored 45%. So do think I might be right?
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I think that's what I meant by this statement in my original post: "A better and effective implementation of the reservation system is what people should ask for, not a total ban of it. " And also, just because a person scores 90% in biology does not mean he will assuredly be a good doctor. Are all your classmates who scored higher marks than you better professionals than you are? And while you say that your aunt had classmates who wouldn't score good marks, you are prolly making a contradicting statement - what can be done about improving the academic performances of the lower caste students? How can we make them perform at par with upper caste students? While I am not questioning your aunt's capabilities or ignoring what you pointed about risking human lives/health in the reservation process, shouldn't we also think along these lines: had those people been put under the same circumstances as your aunt, right from childhood, would your aunt still be assuredly better than all of them? Cheers Smitha
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I think that's what I meant by this statement in my original post: "A better and effective implementation of the reservation system is what people should ask for, not a total ban of it. " And also, just because a person scores 90% in biology does not mean he will assuredly be a good doctor. Are all your classmates who scored higher marks than you better professionals than you are? And while you say that your aunt had classmates who wouldn't score good marks, you are prolly making a contradicting statement - what can be done about improving the academic performances of the lower caste students? How can we make them perform at par with upper caste students? While I am not questioning your aunt's capabilities or ignoring what you pointed about risking human lives/health in the reservation process, shouldn't we also think along these lines: had those people been put under the same circumstances as your aunt, right from childhood, would your aunt still be assuredly better than all of them? Cheers Smitha
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Dear Ms Guru!,
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
And also, just because a person scores 90% in biology does not mean he will assuredly be a good doctor. Are all your classmates who scored higher marks than you better professionals than you are?
Smitha, you should certainly see this in the reverse view! :-D Even if he's not able to grasp what's there in the book, how would'd he be doing it practically. Moreover exams are also based on the "practicals". And even you take our field. why all MNCs opt for students who have good academics? Its a way to ensure that the person cannot be a "total Hopeless" one.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
And while you say that your aunt had classmates who wouldn't score good marks, you are prolly making a contradicting statement - what can be done about improving the academic performances of the lower caste students? How can we make them perform at par with upper caste students?
And here you see, actually my Aunt was from middle class family only, she was striving hard financially(even in a Govt. College) to finish her courses. But the one I told you about was quite well off , and her parents were both doctors. She belonged to S.C. Now just say, the govt. should still "bring-up" these people? who's really backward now? What the Govt. is doing is totally stupid. It should no more be based on "castes" . It should be based on the financial status of the Individual person. I've seen so many F.C students going in for useless courses that has little job opportunities just because they were denied seats for better courses. So what's the Govt. actual plan? to convert all F.C into S.C and all S.C into F.C ?
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
While I am not questioning your aunt's capabilities or ignoring what you pointed about risking human lives/health in the reservation process, shouldn't we also think along these lines: had those people been put under the same circumstances as your aunt, right from childhood, would your aunt still be assuredly better than all of them?
The situation would be much worser really. If my Anut had gotten the same financial status of what the other one had, she'd still have fared better. Ok smitha, Forget everything!, Just say if this is right or not. If you find that because of the *circumstances* these people find it difficult to fare better, why not the Govt. improve the circumstances? like providing
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Dear Ms Guru!,
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
And also, just because a person scores 90% in biology does not mean he will assuredly be a good doctor. Are all your classmates who scored higher marks than you better professionals than you are?
Smitha, you should certainly see this in the reverse view! :-D Even if he's not able to grasp what's there in the book, how would'd he be doing it practically. Moreover exams are also based on the "practicals". And even you take our field. why all MNCs opt for students who have good academics? Its a way to ensure that the person cannot be a "total Hopeless" one.
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
And while you say that your aunt had classmates who wouldn't score good marks, you are prolly making a contradicting statement - what can be done about improving the academic performances of the lower caste students? How can we make them perform at par with upper caste students?
And here you see, actually my Aunt was from middle class family only, she was striving hard financially(even in a Govt. College) to finish her courses. But the one I told you about was quite well off , and her parents were both doctors. She belonged to S.C. Now just say, the govt. should still "bring-up" these people? who's really backward now? What the Govt. is doing is totally stupid. It should no more be based on "castes" . It should be based on the financial status of the Individual person. I've seen so many F.C students going in for useless courses that has little job opportunities just because they were denied seats for better courses. So what's the Govt. actual plan? to convert all F.C into S.C and all S.C into F.C ?
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
While I am not questioning your aunt's capabilities or ignoring what you pointed about risking human lives/health in the reservation process, shouldn't we also think along these lines: had those people been put under the same circumstances as your aunt, right from childhood, would your aunt still be assuredly better than all of them?
The situation would be much worser really. If my Anut had gotten the same financial status of what the other one had, she'd still have fared better. Ok smitha, Forget everything!, Just say if this is right or not. If you find that because of the *circumstances* these people find it difficult to fare better, why not the Govt. improve the circumstances? like providing
VuNic wrote:
But the one I told you about was quite well off , and her parents were both doctors. She belonged to S.C. Now just say, the govt. should still "bring-up" these people? who's really backward now?
I totally agree to this. In fact, see my original post where I said it is unfair to allow reservation for second or third generation in the same family.
VuNic wrote:
Even if he's not able to grasp what's there in the book, how would'd he be doing it practically. Moreover exams are also based on the "practicals". And even you take our field. why all MNCs opt for students who have good academics? Its a way to ensure that the person cannot be a "total Hopeless" one.
A minimum cut-off m arks can be put as a criterion for admission, in the case. While I agree to the point that pathetic academic performances might be indicative of a person's poor grasping skills and unusually high academic performances might be indicative of a person's good skills, I still am not with giving too much weightage on academics unless the academic system is a perfect one. Cheers Smitha P.S.: What's with the Ms Guru?
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VuNic wrote:
But the one I told you about was quite well off , and her parents were both doctors. She belonged to S.C. Now just say, the govt. should still "bring-up" these people? who's really backward now?
I totally agree to this. In fact, see my original post where I said it is unfair to allow reservation for second or third generation in the same family.
VuNic wrote:
Even if he's not able to grasp what's there in the book, how would'd he be doing it practically. Moreover exams are also based on the "practicals". And even you take our field. why all MNCs opt for students who have good academics? Its a way to ensure that the person cannot be a "total Hopeless" one.
A minimum cut-off m arks can be put as a criterion for admission, in the case. While I agree to the point that pathetic academic performances might be indicative of a person's poor grasping skills and unusually high academic performances might be indicative of a person's good skills, I still am not with giving too much weightage on academics unless the academic system is a perfect one. Cheers Smitha P.S.: What's with the Ms Guru?
Are you an aspiring author? Read how to submit articles to CodeProject: Article Submission Guidelines[^] More questions? Ask an editor here...
Smitha Vijayan wrote:
I still am not with giving too much weightage on academics unless the academic system is a perfect one.
Yeah, Our academic system is certainly bad.It Focuses too much on the theories and gives least importance to the practical knowledge. Hmm see, they keep fighting in the upper layer(reservation system & all) but they never worry about the root. P.S.: Mr.Guru = Mr.Nishant!! ;)
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Smitha Vijayan wrote:
I still am not with giving too much weightage on academics unless the academic system is a perfect one.
Yeah, Our academic system is certainly bad.It Focuses too much on the theories and gives least importance to the practical knowledge. Hmm see, they keep fighting in the upper layer(reservation system & all) but they never worry about the root. P.S.: Mr.Guru = Mr.Nishant!! ;)
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A big thanks to both of you on having a positive conversation on this topic. As far as I am concerned I would strongly support reservation but STRICTLY ON POVERTY BASIS. On these lines, government should work upon. But this government is playing just VOTE BANK POLITICS (the only character of congress party). I am trying my best to circulate all helping material in this regard so that indians can know the truth. Everyone wants to do something in this regard but don't know what to do. That's why in my post, I am asking for various ways to protest this. Actually we indians are so fool that we forgot Mandal - I and again voted for congress. To make it more correct, most of educated indians did not vote for anyone. But now time again hit us back and trying to teach a lesson: VOTE is the most powerfull weapon in a democratic country. We need to use it and use it wisely. Well...now we need to think about how to succeed in this fight. Jai Hind P.S: another eye opening article on the philosophy of govn on reservation (or to say no philosophy just vote bank politics) Karan Thgapar interview with Arjun Singh[^] http://spaces.msn.com/nitingarg/ -- modified at 2:07 Wednesday 24th May, 2006
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A big thanks to both of you on having a positive conversation on this topic. As far as I am concerned I would strongly support reservation but STRICTLY ON POVERTY BASIS. On these lines, government should work upon. But this government is playing just VOTE BANK POLITICS (the only character of congress party). I am trying my best to circulate all helping material in this regard so that indians can know the truth. Everyone wants to do something in this regard but don't know what to do. That's why in my post, I am asking for various ways to protest this. Actually we indians are so fool that we forgot Mandal - I and again voted for congress. To make it more correct, most of educated indians did not vote for anyone. But now time again hit us back and trying to teach a lesson: VOTE is the most powerfull weapon in a democratic country. We need to use it and use it wisely. Well...now we need to think about how to succeed in this fight. Jai Hind P.S: another eye opening article on the philosophy of govn on reservation (or to say no philosophy just vote bank politics) Karan Thgapar interview with Arjun Singh[^] http://spaces.msn.com/nitingarg/ -- modified at 2:07 Wednesday 24th May, 2006
nitingary wrote:
STRICTLY ON POVERTY BASIS.
Great. I read the below in the link you've given. For example, a study done by the IITs themselves shows that 50 per cent of the IIT seats for the SCs and STs remain vacant, and for the remaining 50 per cent, 25 per cent are the candidates who even after six years fail to get their degrees. So, clearly, in their case, reservations are not working. Got stunned!:omg:
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