Bill O'Reilly says Iraq war a mistake
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http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TOF-Clark-Murtha.wmv[^] I'm not an O'Reilly fan, but it seems some people on the right are not totally immune to the evidence. John Carson "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine
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http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TOF-Clark-Murtha.wmv[^] I'm not an O'Reilly fan, but it seems some people on the right are not totally immune to the evidence. John Carson "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine
I don't think crooksandliars likes deep linking. http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/31.html#a8518[^] I recall him saying something to that effect a while back - saying that Iraq may have been a tactical error in the war on terror, or something like that. ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]
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I don't think crooksandliars likes deep linking. http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/31.html#a8518[^] I recall him saying something to that effect a while back - saying that Iraq may have been a tactical error in the war on terror, or something like that. ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]
Brit wrote:
I don't think crooksandliars like deep linking.
Mm...works for me. Anyway, if it doesn't work for you, thanks for the alternative link. John Carson "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine
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http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TOF-Clark-Murtha.wmv[^] I'm not an O'Reilly fan, but it seems some people on the right are not totally immune to the evidence. John Carson "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine
Huh? Why do you think Bush's poll numbers are so low. The 'people on the right' have been disagreeing with Bush on many things, including the war, for quite a while now. For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified. "You get that which you tolerate"
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Huh? Why do you think Bush's poll numbers are so low. The 'people on the right' have been disagreeing with Bush on many things, including the war, for quite a while now. For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified. "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified.
While I agree the Iraq war was a mistake, it's for very different reasons. How can you blame the failure on a divided nation? Do you think the soldiers on the ground did a poor job because of leftist propaganda? Do you think their training was so poor that they couldn't do their jobs right because CNN (a couple years too late, btw) started questioning the war? I give our men and women over there more credit than that. No, the blame for this rests solely at the top. Bush, for getting us into it in the first place with no apparent clue, and his cronies like Rumsfeld who took this lack of a clue and ran with it, using absolutely no foresight as to what would happen after we used our bombs. I knew before the first shot was fired that Bush wanted to go to war no matter what, even while he claimed it was a last resort. There was literally nothing Iraq could have done that would have made him happy... we can't find WMD's? He must be hiding them, we have to obliterate the place to find them... it couldn't possibly be because they were really no threat to us WHATSOEVER, including any link to Al Qaeda. So please Stan, now that the Iraq war is a widely recognized disaster, stop doing your spin dance and placing the blame on these leftist bogey men you keep bringing up. You know where the blame really lies.
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Huh? Why do you think Bush's poll numbers are so low. The 'people on the right' have been disagreeing with Bush on many things, including the war, for quite a while now. For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified. "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified.
The US will recover from the left-wing plague. I read something interesting a while back that explained why America has a larger leftist tendency than in earlier times. Leftists shun having families (link[^]) and so their population is naturally controlled to a small percentage. However, after WWII, everyone including leftists were having children. Since offspring are about 80% likely to adopt the political views of their parent, when conservatives have kids they turn out to be conservative. Baby boomers, however, also adopted the political views of their parents, so there is currently a higher percentage of liberals than what would be considered natural. However, as time progresses the percentage of liberals will decline back to normal levels since they don't have children at the same rate. I haven't done the math, but I'm guessing it might take a couple generations...just in time for our impending clash with China.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified.
While I agree the Iraq war was a mistake, it's for very different reasons. How can you blame the failure on a divided nation? Do you think the soldiers on the ground did a poor job because of leftist propaganda? Do you think their training was so poor that they couldn't do their jobs right because CNN (a couple years too late, btw) started questioning the war? I give our men and women over there more credit than that. No, the blame for this rests solely at the top. Bush, for getting us into it in the first place with no apparent clue, and his cronies like Rumsfeld who took this lack of a clue and ran with it, using absolutely no foresight as to what would happen after we used our bombs. I knew before the first shot was fired that Bush wanted to go to war no matter what, even while he claimed it was a last resort. There was literally nothing Iraq could have done that would have made him happy... we can't find WMD's? He must be hiding them, we have to obliterate the place to find them... it couldn't possibly be because they were really no threat to us WHATSOEVER, including any link to Al Qaeda. So please Stan, now that the Iraq war is a widely recognized disaster, stop doing your spin dance and placing the blame on these leftist bogey men you keep bringing up. You know where the blame really lies.
David Kentley wrote:
While I agree the Iraq war was a mistake, it's for very different reasons. How can you blame the failure on a divided nation? Do you think the soldiers on the ground did a poor job because of leftist propaganda? Do you think their training was so poor that they couldn't do their jobs right because CNN (a couple years too late, btw) started questioning the war? I give our men and women over there more credit than that.
The soldiers on the ground did and continue to do an excellent job. War is mostly psychological and the only reason insurgents continue blowing themselves up to no avail is because they know that it effects our resolve via the left in the United States. Even Zarqawi flat out stated that (leaving out the part about the left...but we all know only one segment of our society feeds off of that).
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Stan Shannon wrote:
For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified.
While I agree the Iraq war was a mistake, it's for very different reasons. How can you blame the failure on a divided nation? Do you think the soldiers on the ground did a poor job because of leftist propaganda? Do you think their training was so poor that they couldn't do their jobs right because CNN (a couple years too late, btw) started questioning the war? I give our men and women over there more credit than that. No, the blame for this rests solely at the top. Bush, for getting us into it in the first place with no apparent clue, and his cronies like Rumsfeld who took this lack of a clue and ran with it, using absolutely no foresight as to what would happen after we used our bombs. I knew before the first shot was fired that Bush wanted to go to war no matter what, even while he claimed it was a last resort. There was literally nothing Iraq could have done that would have made him happy... we can't find WMD's? He must be hiding them, we have to obliterate the place to find them... it couldn't possibly be because they were really no threat to us WHATSOEVER, including any link to Al Qaeda. So please Stan, now that the Iraq war is a widely recognized disaster, stop doing your spin dance and placing the blame on these leftist bogey men you keep bringing up. You know where the blame really lies.
Bullshit. Hope is the single greatest resource which sustains any type of military confrontation involving a weak military power against a stronger one. These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions). I never thought that we should have ever invaded IRaq for the purpose of trying to establish a western style democracy. However, in every other way it was a perfectly legitimate, justified decision for a US president to commit our military resources to. In no way was it a 'mistake' to invade. It was a mistake for us to, again, underestimate the power and motivation of the left in the US to undermine their nation's ability to promote its values and interests around the world as they have done consistantly since the Great depression. "You get that which you tolerate" -- modified at 8:58 Thursday 1st June, 2006
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Bullshit. Hope is the single greatest resource which sustains any type of military confrontation involving a weak military power against a stronger one. These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions). I never thought that we should have ever invaded IRaq for the purpose of trying to establish a western style democracy. However, in every other way it was a perfectly legitimate, justified decision for a US president to commit our military resources to. In no way was it a 'mistake' to invade. It was a mistake for us to, again, underestimate the power and motivation of the left in the US to undermine their nation's ability to promote its values and interests around the world as they have done consistantly since the Great depression. "You get that which you tolerate" -- modified at 8:58 Thursday 1st June, 2006
Stan Shannon wrote:
These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions).
"These people" you talk about, the terrorists using random bombings (killing more Iraqis than Americans), are too busy worrying about hiding in their holes of rubble to pay very much attention to American media. I'm sure some kid who strapped on a belt of explosives was pursuaded to do so by watching V for Vendetta. Iraq was seriously broken before we got there, but the Idiots In Charge gave no thought to anything other than "Let's get Saddam" before going half cocked into a half baked war. You just can't blame the evil liberals for the mess. It was there before Bush, but he made it a hell of a lot worse.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions).
"These people" you talk about, the terrorists using random bombings (killing more Iraqis than Americans), are too busy worrying about hiding in their holes of rubble to pay very much attention to American media. I'm sure some kid who strapped on a belt of explosives was pursuaded to do so by watching V for Vendetta. Iraq was seriously broken before we got there, but the Idiots In Charge gave no thought to anything other than "Let's get Saddam" before going half cocked into a half baked war. You just can't blame the evil liberals for the mess. It was there before Bush, but he made it a hell of a lot worse.
David Kentley wrote:
"These people" you talk about, the terrorists using random bombings (killing more Iraqis than Americans), are too busy worrying about hiding in their holes of rubble to pay very much attention to American media.
uhh...CNN is broadcast directly into Iraq. They also have quite a bit af Al Jazeera down there. Osama Bin Laden and Zarqawi have also made frequent references to NY Times articles in their broadcasts.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions).
"These people" you talk about, the terrorists using random bombings (killing more Iraqis than Americans), are too busy worrying about hiding in their holes of rubble to pay very much attention to American media. I'm sure some kid who strapped on a belt of explosives was pursuaded to do so by watching V for Vendetta. Iraq was seriously broken before we got there, but the Idiots In Charge gave no thought to anything other than "Let's get Saddam" before going half cocked into a half baked war. You just can't blame the evil liberals for the mess. It was there before Bush, but he made it a hell of a lot worse.
David Kentley wrote:
You just can't blame the evil liberals for the mess.
Yes, I can, and quite legitimately (although I hardly think there is anything 'liberal' about the modern left). The kid strapping the c4 to himself derives his hope from those who lead him, and it is they who most certainly derive hope from the leftist in the west. This phenomenon is precisely why dissention was surpressed by the administrations during WWII, WWI and the Civil war, and should be surpressed anytime we have troops committed to combat under legitimate congressional authority. Earliar generations understood that such dissention was essentially giving aide and comfort to the enemy. The current political opposition also understands that but simply considers the political ideals represented by Bush, et al, to be a greater threat to their principles than does Islamic fundamentalism, and therefore purposefully supports that cause against Bush.
David Kentley wrote:
It was there before Bush, but he made it a hell of a lot worse.
That comment so clearly articulates the intellectual incompetence of the left. It should be obvious to anyone that any effort made to thwart the ambitions of terrorists and tyrants will always make the situation a "hell of a lot worse". If you confront any evil in any way with any strategy that actually has the potential to undermine its objectives it will obviously fight back with force. If your only goal is to not make the situation "a hell of a lot worse" the only way to accomplish that is to do nothing at all. I would not defend Bush's decisions in any other way than to say that at the very least he did something and that is damn well good enough for me. "You get that which you tolerate"
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Stan Shannon wrote:
For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified.
The US will recover from the left-wing plague. I read something interesting a while back that explained why America has a larger leftist tendency than in earlier times. Leftists shun having families (link[^]) and so their population is naturally controlled to a small percentage. However, after WWII, everyone including leftists were having children. Since offspring are about 80% likely to adopt the political views of their parent, when conservatives have kids they turn out to be conservative. Baby boomers, however, also adopted the political views of their parents, so there is currently a higher percentage of liberals than what would be considered natural. However, as time progresses the percentage of liberals will decline back to normal levels since they don't have children at the same rate. I haven't done the math, but I'm guessing it might take a couple generations...just in time for our impending clash with China.
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espeir wrote:
just in time for our impending clash with China.
Are you referencing the problem of Taiwan or the problem of North Korea
Taiwan. China is doubling its military spending almost annually and telling the world that it is spending half of what it's actually spending. It's buildup also targets the military of one country...The United States. They may be planning for war or maybe just a cold war. But either way it seems like they want something to go down...Maybe in 20 years or so. I see it as an internal battle for China, though. Will capitalism win out so that they become a reliable democracy or will communism win out and will we have another USSR on our hands. Time will tell.
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Bullshit. Hope is the single greatest resource which sustains any type of military confrontation involving a weak military power against a stronger one. These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions). I never thought that we should have ever invaded IRaq for the purpose of trying to establish a western style democracy. However, in every other way it was a perfectly legitimate, justified decision for a US president to commit our military resources to. In no way was it a 'mistake' to invade. It was a mistake for us to, again, underestimate the power and motivation of the left in the US to undermine their nation's ability to promote its values and interests around the world as they have done consistantly since the Great depression. "You get that which you tolerate" -- modified at 8:58 Thursday 1st June, 2006
Stan Shannon wrote:
bullsh*t. Hope is the single greatest resource which sustains any type of military confrontation involving a weak military power against a stronger one. These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions).
Yeah, you're so right. It was CNN that ignored pre war planning and didn't send enough troops. It was the New York Times that didn't think our troops needed body armor. It was NPR that disbanded the Iraqi army. It was PBS that thought it was okay to let the Iraqi's loot after the fall of Saddam. I think it was George Clooney that didn't think it was important to secure the Iraqi ammo dumps during the invasion. Wasn't it Michael Moore that suggested we should torture people at Abu Ghraib? No wonder the Iraqis are so pissed off. It can't possibly be anything that the Bush administration did.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
bullsh*t. Hope is the single greatest resource which sustains any type of military confrontation involving a weak military power against a stronger one. These people derive hope from the constant negative, anti-Bush, purely politically motivated, drumbeat from the left, the democrats and their vast propaganda arm (the mainstream media,hollywood, and educational institutions).
Yeah, you're so right. It was CNN that ignored pre war planning and didn't send enough troops. It was the New York Times that didn't think our troops needed body armor. It was NPR that disbanded the Iraqi army. It was PBS that thought it was okay to let the Iraqi's loot after the fall of Saddam. I think it was George Clooney that didn't think it was important to secure the Iraqi ammo dumps during the invasion. Wasn't it Michael Moore that suggested we should torture people at Abu Ghraib? No wonder the Iraqis are so pissed off. It can't possibly be anything that the Bush administration did.
Why do you say "our" troops? Just yesterday you said you're not an American.
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Taiwan. China is doubling its military spending almost annually and telling the world that it is spending half of what it's actually spending. It's buildup also targets the military of one country...The United States. They may be planning for war or maybe just a cold war. But either way it seems like they want something to go down...Maybe in 20 years or so. I see it as an internal battle for China, though. Will capitalism win out so that they become a reliable democracy or will communism win out and will we have another USSR on our hands. Time will tell.
I disagree with that. I find it hard to blame China for wanting to achieve economic and military parity with the US. I'm not saying I'm comfortable with it, but given thier history, it is a perfectly understandable course of action for them. I would sure as hell be doing it if I were them. However, they are evolving into what can only be discribed as a capitalistic society. Capitalism will ultimately bring about democratic reforms in thier government. An outright war with the US would doom their economic ambitions. Wars, especially world wars, are very expensive, and do nothing for the bottom line. As China becomes more democratic and more capitalistic the danger of war between our two societies decreases. "You get that which you tolerate"
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Why do you say "our" troops? Just yesterday you said you're not an American.
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I disagree with that. I find it hard to blame China for wanting to achieve economic and military parity with the US. I'm not saying I'm comfortable with it, but given thier history, it is a perfectly understandable course of action for them. I would sure as hell be doing it if I were them. However, they are evolving into what can only be discribed as a capitalistic society. Capitalism will ultimately bring about democratic reforms in thier government. An outright war with the US would doom their economic ambitions. Wars, especially world wars, are very expensive, and do nothing for the bottom line. As China becomes more democratic and more capitalistic the danger of war between our two societies decreases. "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
I disagree with that. I find it hard to blame China for wanting to achieve economic and military parity with the US. I'm not saying I'm comfortable with it, but given thier history, it is a perfectly understandable course of action for them. I would sure as hell be doing it if I were them.
I don't blame them either. However, I think it remains to be seen whether their government (which has a very shady past) will be able to wield their power responsibly. That's why I say it's an internal struggle with China. If responsible capitalism ultimately becomes dominant (and they appear to be on that track, but we can't be sure at this point) then I think it's OK. If their communist government continues to reign and effectively squashes opposition, I think there could be another cold war...And depending on what happens with Taiwan, there could be another world war.
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I've been here long enough and my brother-in-law was nearly killed in Iraq fighting for this country. That is why I feel justified in identifying with "our" troops. Not to mention that "my" troops are over there as well.
Wjousts wrote:
I've been here long enough and my brother-in-law was nearly killed in Iraq fighting for this country. That is why I feel justified in identifying with "our" troops.
Not good enough. He's not blood and you're not an American.
Wjousts wrote:
Not to mention that "my" troops are over there as well.
Your rant specifically targetted American troops.
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Huh? Why do you think Bush's poll numbers are so low. The 'people on the right' have been disagreeing with Bush on many things, including the war, for quite a while now. For my part, I think the war in Iraq was a mistake because before this nation ever commits troops to any foriegn combat again, we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion. No nation as badly divided as this one is politically has any hope of waging an effective military campaign any where for any purpose regardless of how justified. "You get that which you tolerate"
Stan Shannon wrote:
we need to first bomb our own leftist elements into oblivion
Exactly! Now there is an example of true patriotism! Don't question your government it's not patriotic. The patriotic thing to do is murder the citizens that do question their government. Your righteousness escapes me.
-- signature under construction --
-pete