Expensive increments
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MayankT wrote:
What scares me is that recently three/four companies have closed shop saying Bangalore is too expensive.
Unless India (not just Bangalore) proves consistently that, in spite of the 1000s of crappy devs, we also have a high percentage of highly skilled, quick-learning candidates, people are going to move away. My experiences over the past few years where I've tried to help some companies hire good candidates has been, there's a huge talent pool, but there's an even bigger not-so-talented set of candidates. It's hard to pick out those from the former pool from amongst the ocean of job applicants. :sigh: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)But how is this different from hiring anywhere ? I am still getting job offers in Hobart ( got one yesterday ) that start with 'we just can't find decent developers locally'. Why would India be any different ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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But how is this different from hiring anywhere ? I am still getting job offers in Hobart ( got one yesterday ) that start with 'we just can't find decent developers locally'. Why would India be any different ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
Why would India be any different ?
India is not - but most hiring companies ignore (or hide) this fact. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Unless India (not just Bangalore) proves consistently that.....Nish
Nish - cost is also important. I've been creating projects with a mix of offshore and USA based resources since 2001. This works as long as the economics work. The economics have to be: (offshore labor costs + supporting infrastructure + grief) <= (USA based resource cost) grief in the above is meant to be the problems wrought by dissimular cultures, problems wrought by an almost common language, etc. This idea of grief is ambiguous, I know but remember that offshore teams are typically considered outsiders by USA stateside programmers who will (or may) work against the offshore component when the opportunity presents. So you need to work to make USA stateside management believe firmly in the value proposition. Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Nish - cost is also important. I've been creating projects with a mix of offshore and USA based resources since 2001. This works as long as the economics work. The economics have to be: (offshore labor costs + supporting infrastructure + grief) <= (USA based resource cost)
Yep - so the only way for Indians to increase their labor costs would be to reduce the grief-factor - since the infrastructure costs are mostly fixed. Reducing grief factor could include improving technical skills, realizing that the dialect of English spoken in India would not make much sense to a native speaker unless suitably modified, understanding western culture better (perhaps by living there for a few months), and maybe trying to get a bachelors or masters degree in the States (though if people did that, they'd probably find it easier to get employed there rather than go back to India). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)-- modified at 13:53 Wednesday 5th July, 2006
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MayankT wrote:
What scares me is that recently three/four companies have closed shop saying Bangalore is too expensive.
Unless India (not just Bangalore) proves consistently that, in spite of the 1000s of crappy devs, we also have a high percentage of highly skilled, quick-learning candidates, people are going to move away. My experiences over the past few years where I've tried to help some companies hire good candidates has been, there's a huge talent pool, but there's an even bigger not-so-talented set of candidates. It's hard to pick out those from the former pool from amongst the ocean of job applicants. :sigh: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
in spite of the 1000s of crappy devs, we also have a high percentage of highly skilled, quick-learning candidates, people are going to move away.
So does the US, but that didn't stop a lot of companies from outsourcing. In the end, price is king. Jeremy Falcon
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I'm from Bangalore. My company gave two increments already this year and one more is coming up this month. They call it industry averaging. Many people have resigned in the past few months (for more money; mostly less than 3 yrs total exp) and I think HR and Fin divisions are under pressure. What scares me is that recently three/four companies have closed shop saying Bangalore is too expensive. Wait and watch?
It's a marxist conspiracy!!!! Wib wib wib wib wib wib wib wib wib!
-- A Stern Warning of Things to Come
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
in spite of the 1000s of crappy devs, we also have a high percentage of highly skilled, quick-learning candidates, people are going to move away.
So does the US, but that didn't stop a lot of companies from outsourcing. In the end, price is king. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
So does the US, but that didn't stop a lot of companies from outsourcing. In the end, price is king.
Yep, that's because for equally qualified candidates, value-for-money goes to the candidate in the cheaper location (might be inter-country, inter-state, or even inter-city). If I wanted to hire a a work-at-home consultant, I'd probably stay away from places like New York or Chicago, and go for someone in a not-so-big town in maybe Oklahoma. :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
I'm from Bangalore. My company gave two increments already this year and one more is coming up this month. They call it industry averaging. Many people have resigned in the past few months (for more money; mostly less than 3 yrs total exp) and I think HR and Fin divisions are under pressure. What scares me is that recently three/four companies have closed shop saying Bangalore is too expensive. Wait and watch?
What are typical salaries in Bangalore? Do people with 5-7 years of work experience make INR 1,000,000 annually? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
So does the US, but that didn't stop a lot of companies from outsourcing. In the end, price is king.
Yep, that's because for equally qualified candidates, value-for-money goes to the candidate in the cheaper location (might be inter-country, inter-state, or even inter-city). If I wanted to hire a a work-at-home consultant, I'd probably stay away from places like New York or Chicago, and go for someone in a not-so-big town in maybe Oklahoma. :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I'd probably stay away from places like New York or Chicago, and go for someone in a not-so-big town in maybe Oklahoma.
Maybe you'll get some fresh eggs or something out of the deal too. :-D Jeremy Falcon
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Nish - cost is also important. I've been creating projects with a mix of offshore and USA based resources since 2001. This works as long as the economics work. The economics have to be: (offshore labor costs + supporting infrastructure + grief) <= (USA based resource cost)
Yep - so the only way for Indians to increase their labor costs would be to reduce the grief-factor - since the infrastructure costs are mostly fixed. Reducing grief factor could include improving technical skills, realizing that the dialect of English spoken in India would not make much sense to a native speaker unless suitably modified, understanding western culture better (perhaps by living there for a few months), and maybe trying to get a bachelors or masters degree in the States (though if people did that, they'd probably find it easier to get employed there rather than go back to India). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)-- modified at 13:53 Wednesday 5th July, 2006
The general indian developer 'team' is not very skilled. Let us see: 1. HR under pressure to hire more talent (after all it is bangalore) 2. HR hires junk 3. Manager works with junk (after all what is a good manager if he cannot get work done by junk people) 4. Junk work gets done 5. Since junk work gets done only junk part of the high-profile project comes to india 6. Since junk work comes little existing good talent leaves I started my career of 1.5 years at TCS. I was in a support project answering US calls as to why certain jobs were not running... No programming. We identified problems and gave quickfixes... americans did the code fixes... so i left after one year... (i paid them 50K to leave).... Next i joined a chinese company in bangalore ... promises of good work China doesn't trust us... so we get a complete framework... not just design but code... also code for future requirements... now i am fixing defects and implementing requirements which have already been coded... top defect from last week... incorrect grammer... (chinese are still weak in english)... so i want to leave again (requests for changing projects lead directly to hell)... -- modified at 15:29 Wednesday 5th July, 2006
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What are typical salaries in Bangalore? Do people with 5-7 years of work experience make INR 1,000,000 annually? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I'd probably stay away from places like New York or Chicago, and go for someone in a not-so-big town in maybe Oklahoma.
Maybe you'll get some fresh eggs or something out of the deal too. :-D Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Maybe you'll get some fresh eggs or something out of the deal too.
:laugh: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
i know a girl in my company.. she has 5 yrs... and above INR 1,000,000 there seems to be an unsaid rule picking up in bangalore. salary = yrs*3 lakh rupees (that way i need to improve a bit)
MayankT wrote:
i know a girl in my company.. she has 5 yrs... and above INR 1,000,000
That is good to hear - that's about 22K USD :-)
MayankT wrote:
there seems to be an unsaid rule picking up in bangalore. salary = yrs*3 lakh rupees (that way i need to improve a bit)
Interesting! So someone with 10 years exp would get 66 K USD which is pretty good for Indian cost of living (a similar person in the States might be making 120 K though). Btw, I assume cost of living in Bangalore must also be shooting up. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
i know a girl in my company.. she has 5 yrs... and above INR 1,000,000 there seems to be an unsaid rule picking up in bangalore. salary = yrs*3 lakh rupees (that way i need to improve a bit)
MayankT wrote:
i know a girl in my company
Just so you know that if you get a chance to work with a US company, don't call your female colleagues girls or you'll be singing soprano. The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
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MayankT wrote:
i know a girl in my company
Just so you know that if you get a chance to work with a US company, don't call your female colleagues girls or you'll be singing soprano. The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
Tim Craig wrote:
Just so you know that if you get a chance to work with a US company, don't call your female colleagues girls or you'll be singing soprano.
In India, most female-colleagues are referred to as "girl" unless they are 35+. What would the US equivalent be? "Woman" or "Lady" perhaps? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Tim Craig wrote:
Just so you know that if you get a chance to work with a US company, don't call your female colleagues girls or you'll be singing soprano.
In India, most female-colleagues are referred to as "girl" unless they are 35+. What would the US equivalent be? "Woman" or "Lady" perhaps? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)In the context he used it "a woman I work with" would be appropriate. Calling a colleage a term reserved for a child is considered demeaning. And never, never refer to the African American dude as a "boy". :rolleyes: The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
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I'm from Bangalore. My company gave two increments already this year and one more is coming up this month. They call it industry averaging. Many people have resigned in the past few months (for more money; mostly less than 3 yrs total exp) and I think HR and Fin divisions are under pressure. What scares me is that recently three/four companies have closed shop saying Bangalore is too expensive. Wait and watch?
MayankT wrote:
I'm from Bangalore. My company gave two increments already this year and one more is coming up this month.
I'm from the UK. My company hasn't given a raise in almost 3 years. Be happy.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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MayankT wrote:
I'm from Bangalore. My company gave two increments already this year and one more is coming up this month.
I'm from the UK. My company hasn't given a raise in almost 3 years. Be happy.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
do you know that working middle class is the cow of india... the government milks us (and has been demanding more and more milk recently) and who gets to drink the milk? why ofcourse, the civil servants and the beggars the newspaper is so full of so many scams that i have given up on reading the front page... this anti-corruption guy caught many people... all were let go by govt for lack of evidence (as if 50 crore recovered was not proof enough)... and he retired last week... whole bangalore was lit up... everyone was celebrating the relief. lot of good is happening... but as the money pours in corruption is increasing; not decreasing and everything is damn expensive... and you don't get anything in return for all the taxes... worst case... recently some politician announced that he will give 50 rupees per day to all people in his constituency. that is all ok.. but would you believe if i told you that 5 plasma tvs were distributed for the function organised for the same?
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In the context he used it "a woman I work with" would be appropriate. Calling a colleage a term reserved for a child is considered demeaning. And never, never refer to the African American dude as a "boy". :rolleyes: The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.