A cartoon vs. reality
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14021722/[^] At least 422 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in Lebanon, according to the Health Ministry. Up to 750,000 Lebanese have been driven from their homes. At least 50 Israelis have been confirmed killed, including 32 troops, according to authorities. Feel free to rate as low as you can, b/c I d*mn care. ;)
Farhan Noor Qureshi
Farhan Noor Qureshi wrote:
At least 422 people, mostly civilians, have been killed in Lebanon
since terrorists don't wear uniforms, just how in the hell can anyone tell? -- modified at 17:06 Wednesday 26th July, 2006
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So when will Hezbolla show some concern for its own people, and lay down the rockets and return the two kidnapped soldiers?
I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
we'd know this because.................
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Even if that was true, why should we care?
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I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Yep Christian. We poor, ignorant, self centered, feekless, reckless US assholes do have access to newspapers, radio, tv, etc.. And most of us have sufficient education to read multi syllable words and can probably figure out those big words we don't know. So whats your point ? Did the Israeli forces go into Palestine and abduct those "women and childern" just so they could lock them in their jails and feed and clothe them and provide them with medical services or did they lock them up for some other reason. And when did it become acceptable for someone, for any reason, to kidnapp anyone - let along invade another country to do so. Did the idiots who did this act think that Israel was gonna sit on their hands and wail "woe is me" . The ragheads had better be glad that the retalation is as light as it is. Israel has had leaders that would really get pissed and level the joint. I think that they are getting off lucky. Richard
Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
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Christian Graus wrote:
does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
we'd know this because.................
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
Mike Gaskey wrote:
we'd know this because.................
Herein lies my point. I didn't see a single Australian news story about the soldier kidnap that didn't talk about this, and about the Israeli response to those demands. I didn't see it reported in the USA at all. I'm not saying that Israel is all wrong, and the other side is completely in the right, I'm more exploring the media bias that seems to make so many people assume the opposite is true.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Christian Graus wrote:
I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Even if that was true, why should we care?
Score: 1.0 (1 vote). wrote:
Even if that was true, why should we care?
Because it might interfere with your one dimensional view of the situation ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Christian Graus wrote:
does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Yep Christian. We poor, ignorant, self centered, feekless, reckless US assholes do have access to newspapers, radio, tv, etc.. And most of us have sufficient education to read multi syllable words and can probably figure out those big words we don't know. So whats your point ? Did the Israeli forces go into Palestine and abduct those "women and childern" just so they could lock them in their jails and feed and clothe them and provide them with medical services or did they lock them up for some other reason. And when did it become acceptable for someone, for any reason, to kidnapp anyone - let along invade another country to do so. Did the idiots who did this act think that Israel was gonna sit on their hands and wail "woe is me" . The ragheads had better be glad that the retalation is as light as it is. Israel has had leaders that would really get pissed and level the joint. I think that they are getting off lucky. Richard
Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
Richard Stringer wrote:
We poor, ignorant, self centered, feekless, reckless US assholes
I'm sorry you feel that way about yourself. It's not something I said.
Richard Stringer wrote:
do have access to newspapers, radio, tv, etc
So did I, but I couldn't see it being reported in the manner it was at home. BTW, read the other comments that were made, they were along the lines of 'why would we know that', and 'why should we care ?'.
Richard Stringer wrote:
So whats your point ?
My core point is that a lot of people here seem to act as if Israel sends people bearing gifts over the border and then is shocked to be greeted with violence. My core point is that both sides are at fault here, and my observation is that the US media, more than others, tries to hide this fact.
Richard Stringer wrote:
And when did it become acceptable for someone, for any reason, to kidnapp anyone
I didn't say it was, my point is merely that both sides are guilty here, both sides are treating the other with aggression.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
we'd know this because.................
Herein lies my point. I didn't see a single Australian news story about the soldier kidnap that didn't talk about this, and about the Israeli response to those demands. I didn't see it reported in the USA at all. I'm not saying that Israel is all wrong, and the other side is completely in the right, I'm more exploring the media bias that seems to make so many people assume the opposite is true.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm more exploring the media bias that seems to make so many people assume the opposite is true.
Okay, I see your point. I have heard the statement but I discounted it heavily because I heard it after the Israeli response. Now that all of that has taken place (kidnap, response, reasons) I still support Israel's actions. Reason, I guess that is where my sympathies lie.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Richard Stringer wrote:
We poor, ignorant, self centered, feekless, reckless US assholes
I'm sorry you feel that way about yourself. It's not something I said.
Richard Stringer wrote:
do have access to newspapers, radio, tv, etc
So did I, but I couldn't see it being reported in the manner it was at home. BTW, read the other comments that were made, they were along the lines of 'why would we know that', and 'why should we care ?'.
Richard Stringer wrote:
So whats your point ?
My core point is that a lot of people here seem to act as if Israel sends people bearing gifts over the border and then is shocked to be greeted with violence. My core point is that both sides are at fault here, and my observation is that the US media, more than others, tries to hide this fact.
Richard Stringer wrote:
And when did it become acceptable for someone, for any reason, to kidnapp anyone
I didn't say it was, my point is merely that both sides are guilty here, both sides are treating the other with aggression.
Christian Graus wrote:
My core point is that both sides are at fault here, and my observation is that the US media, more than others, tries to hide this fact.
actually this has the US media with their panties in a bunch. They'd desperately like to find a way(as did Kerry, fyi) to make it Bush's fault, but if they try then they're bad mouthing Israel, which has a lot of support. I have a brother-in-law who is in the newspaper business (Pittsburgh Free Press, then Phildelphia Inquirer and now Gannet in Phoenix). If I get a chance to talk to him over the weekend I'll get his opinion. Those discusions are usually awkward though, he's "our" definition of on the left.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Score: 1.0 (1 vote). wrote:
Even if that was true, why should we care?
Because it might interfere with your one dimensional view of the situation ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
Because it might interfere with your one dimensional view of the situation ?
Are you suggesting that it might justify Hezbollah's actions if Israel had imprisioned "women and children"?
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I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Sure thats been reported. But what is the significance of justifications for terrorism? Hizbollah is a terrorist organization, who cares what their stated motives are. A person would have to be insane to believe that they give a rats ass about any one in prison when they are fighting from behind women and children. I'm pretty sure anyone who would do that would have no problems telling lies.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Christian Graus wrote:
My core point is that both sides are at fault here, and my observation is that the US media, more than others, tries to hide this fact.
actually this has the US media with their panties in a bunch. They'd desperately like to find a way(as did Kerry, fyi) to make it Bush's fault, but if they try then they're bad mouthing Israel, which has a lot of support. I have a brother-in-law who is in the newspaper business (Pittsburgh Free Press, then Phildelphia Inquirer and now Gannet in Phoenix). If I get a chance to talk to him over the weekend I'll get his opinion. Those discusions are usually awkward though, he's "our" definition of on the left.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
Mike Gaskey wrote:
to make it Bush's fault
OK - that's a thinker. It's BUSH'S fault ?
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Those discusions are usually awkward though, he's "our" definition of on the left.
*grin* One thing I admire about the US is that you guys seem to appreciate democracy enough to at least be interested in discussing the political process. Over here, we just hate all politicians and don't discuss it any further.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
to make it Bush's fault
OK - that's a thinker. It's BUSH'S fault ?
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Those discusions are usually awkward though, he's "our" definition of on the left.
*grin* One thing I admire about the US is that you guys seem to appreciate democracy enough to at least be interested in discussing the political process. Over here, we just hate all politicians and don't discuss it any further.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
It wouldn't have happened, if only - so says Kerry[^]
Christian Graus wrote:
discussing the political process
it does make for some touchy holiday meals.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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It wouldn't have happened, if only - so says Kerry[^]
Christian Graus wrote:
discussing the political process
it does make for some touchy holiday meals.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
Mike Gaskey wrote:
it does make for some touchy holiday meals.
I'm sure it does. Nevertheless, at least it happens. People here just by and large vote for the party their parents voted for, assuming they even know who that was.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Yes. Does that make it right? Does refusing to admit it was a mistake and return them make sense, no matter how many of your neighbors die? I am not about to say Israel is right here either, but the point is that either side has it in its power to end the violence. Blame both if it continues.
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Yes. Does that make it right? Does refusing to admit it was a mistake and return them make sense, no matter how many of your neighbors die? I am not about to say Israel is right here either, but the point is that either side has it in its power to end the violence. Blame both if it continues.
Rob Graham wrote:
Blame both if it continues.
I do, that's really the point I'm trying to make. Everyone else seems to assume that Israel is blameless, and it's in that context that my comments focus on the fact that they also have their share of blame.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Christian Graus wrote:
I'm interested to know - does anyone in the USA know that those soldiers were kidnapped to try and achieve the release of women and children being held in prison by Israel ?
Sure thats been reported. But what is the significance of justifications for terrorism? Hizbollah is a terrorist organization, who cares what their stated motives are. A person would have to be insane to believe that they give a rats ass about any one in prison when they are fighting from behind women and children. I'm pretty sure anyone who would do that would have no problems telling lies.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm pretty sure anyone who would do that would have no problems telling lies.
So in other words, you trust your media to tell you what to think ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
But what is the significance of justifications for terrorism?
What if the women and children in question have been locked up for no good reason ? Doesn't that constitute terrorism ? Not saying that this is the case, but my question is, how do you know that it's not ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm pretty sure anyone who would do that would have no problems telling lies.
So in other words, you trust your media to tell you what to think ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
But what is the significance of justifications for terrorism?
What if the women and children in question have been locked up for no good reason ? Doesn't that constitute terrorism ? Not saying that this is the case, but my question is, how do you know that it's not ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
So in other words, you trust your media to tell you what to think ?
I don't trust the media to tell me anything. But I do trust my own common sense. I'm simply not going to believe the word of people who slaughter innocents as a matter of course and as a part of the strategy. Hizbollah are murderers. They are nothing but murderers. They have no political legitimacy of any kind. They should not be listened to or reasoned with. They should simply be killed.
Christian Graus wrote:
What if the women and children in question have been locked up for no good reason ? Doesn't that constitute terrorism ? Not saying that this is the case, but my question is, how do you know that it's not ?
I simply do not believe Israel would do that. Israel is a civilized nation guilty of nothing more than exerciseing their right to survive. If they have them locked up, it is for a damned good reason.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Israel sucks. The US gets much better kill ratios in battle.
"Everything I listed is intended to eliminate the tyranny of the majority." -Vincent Reynolds on American Democracy