Reign of Error
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digital man wrote:
There are 3 kinds of reality: yours, mine and the truth.
Or as I like to see it: There are three kinds of Truth: Yours, Mine and Reality. (Perhaps Reality is God, but thats another debate). And our perceptions filter that Reality,and give us our perceived Truth. As a non Jew, in fact, totally irreligious, I see the bahaviour of Israel towards Arabs as abusive. An example. The putting up of the wall a few years ago involved, in one section, running it straight through an Arab farmers field of olive trees. So the IDF get out the chain saws and cut a path through the middle. When the wall is built, he wont be able ot get to the other half of his land. Now, you might say, 'Oh, its just a few fucking trees man', but, for this farmer, it is his livelihood, all he has to feed his family. And this is the least of what the IDF has done to Arabs over the years. -- modified at 6:53 Friday 28th July, 2006
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
This is a one-sided distortion of the truth. If the Palestinians (and their chums the Hezzbollites (?) would accept any one of the innumerable peace offers that Israel has made then there would be no need for Israel to attempt to isolate herself from a group of people whose raison d'etre appears to be the annhilation of Israel. Yes, it sucks but what else should they do? Roll out a red carpet and jump into the med? And they wouldn't be in Lebanon now if Hezzbolah would have stopped lobbing bombs into Northern Israel. Again, what should Israel do? Let it carry on for another few years? That is both unrealistic and naive: it's like letting your next door neighbour kick you each time you pass his door and you just smile and say good evening. How long before you say enough is enough?
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pseudonym67 wrote:
You'll see when the yanks wake up and read this post
Yep, your post will go for hero to zero at about 14:00 CET.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
Yep, your post will go for hero to zero at about 14:00 CET.
Heh. So true, so true. Let's get all the EU together to vote this puppy up!!
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>>So one side's dead babies are more important No, I have never ever said that.. I consider the Hezzbollahs to be terrorists and should be destroyed. However by killing babies and civilians, I pretty much get the same opinion about Israel. In order to not appear as bad as the terrorists, Israel should give higest priority to not harm the civilians, even if it costs more Israeli soldiers lives when they cant use bomb raids. This is not how Israel currently handles the matter, they attack in blind rage. //Roger
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This is a one-sided distortion of the truth. If the Palestinians (and their chums the Hezzbollites (?) would accept any one of the innumerable peace offers that Israel has made then there would be no need for Israel to attempt to isolate herself from a group of people whose raison d'etre appears to be the annhilation of Israel. Yes, it sucks but what else should they do? Roll out a red carpet and jump into the med? And they wouldn't be in Lebanon now if Hezzbolah would have stopped lobbing bombs into Northern Israel. Again, what should Israel do? Let it carry on for another few years? That is both unrealistic and naive: it's like letting your next door neighbour kick you each time you pass his door and you just smile and say good evening. How long before you say enough is enough?
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doorThe Arab farmer is not part of the Israel vs Hezbollah issue. He is just a simple peasant with 50 olive trees, who sells his olives in the market, has a cup of mint tea on the way home has dinner and shags his wife. ie, a normal life. Why does Israel always put these walls up on Arabs land, and often of another countries ladn (look at the way the border has drifted form the 48 original), and never on a Jewish farmers land? Because Israeli law does not protect the Arab, it only protects the Jew.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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This is a one-sided distortion of the truth. If the Palestinians (and their chums the Hezzbollites (?) would accept any one of the innumerable peace offers that Israel has made then there would be no need for Israel to attempt to isolate herself from a group of people whose raison d'etre appears to be the annhilation of Israel. Yes, it sucks but what else should they do? Roll out a red carpet and jump into the med? And they wouldn't be in Lebanon now if Hezzbolah would have stopped lobbing bombs into Northern Israel. Again, what should Israel do? Let it carry on for another few years? That is both unrealistic and naive: it's like letting your next door neighbour kick you each time you pass his door and you just smile and say good evening. How long before you say enough is enough?
home
bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next door -
>>So one side's dead babies are more important No, I have never ever said that.. I consider the Hezzbollahs to be terrorists and should be destroyed. However by killing babies and civilians, I pretty much get the same opinion about Israel. In order to not appear as bad as the terrorists, Israel should give higest priority to not harm the civilians, even if it costs more Israeli soldiers lives when they cant use bomb raids. This is not how Israel currently handles the matter, they attack in blind rage. //Roger
How do you feel about the UK's use of air support in the Afghan conflict? Many civilians lost their lives in a recent ambush when a small recon force was trapped by enemy fire from 3 directions after leaving a 'friendly' village. They would have all died if several tonnes of ordinance hadn't been deployed.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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>>So one side's dead babies are more important No, I have never ever said that.. I consider the Hezzbollahs to be terrorists and should be destroyed. However by killing babies and civilians, I pretty much get the same opinion about Israel. In order to not appear as bad as the terrorists, Israel should give higest priority to not harm the civilians, even if it costs more Israeli soldiers lives when they cant use bomb raids. This is not how Israel currently handles the matter, they attack in blind rage. //Roger
Utter nonsense. If the poor sods killed by the bombs choose not to leave or are held against their will after being given a number of warnings that the bombs are coming then what more can the Israelis do if they have intelligence or believe that the targets, themselves, are legitimate? You need to realise that the terrorists use their own women and shildren as human shields in the foolish belief that Israel will not attack or they attack from so close to UN posts as to put those posts in mortal danger as has now been seen.
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next door -
This is a one-sided distortion of the truth. If the Palestinians (and their chums the Hezzbollites (?) would accept any one of the innumerable peace offers that Israel has made then there would be no need for Israel to attempt to isolate herself from a group of people whose raison d'etre appears to be the annhilation of Israel. Yes, it sucks but what else should they do? Roll out a red carpet and jump into the med? And they wouldn't be in Lebanon now if Hezzbolah would have stopped lobbing bombs into Northern Israel. Again, what should Israel do? Let it carry on for another few years? That is both unrealistic and naive: it's like letting your next door neighbour kick you each time you pass his door and you just smile and say good evening. How long before you say enough is enough?
home
bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doorEvidence of abusive Israeli bahaviour, documented by a Jewish Israeli organisation. http://www.btselem.org/english/Testimonies/index.asp[^] Now, you cant stick your head in the sand with this one. There it is, in black and white, abusive treatment of Arabs. Go on, agree with me, I know you want to.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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The Arab farmer is not part of the Israel vs Hezbollah issue. He is just a simple peasant with 50 olive trees, who sells his olives in the market, has a cup of mint tea on the way home has dinner and shags his wife. ie, a normal life. Why does Israel always put these walls up on Arabs land, and often of another countries ladn (look at the way the border has drifted form the 48 original), and never on a Jewish farmers land? Because Israeli law does not protect the Arab, it only protects the Jew.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Shagging your wife is normal?!? The border has not, as you so disingenuously put it, shifted from 48. You really like your own skewed view of history, don't you? How many ohter countries have ever given up land won by war or have even been asked to? Why should they just wander back to unsafe borders without any concessions from the muslims? Or are they somehow different form the rest of humanity as you seem to feel Jews are?
fat_boy wrote:
Because Israeli law does not protect the Arab, it only protects the Jew.
This is complete rubbish: firstly the population of Israel is by no means 100% Jewish and any citizen of Israel, regardless of ethnicity, has exactly the same rights under the law as every other citizen. You sound like you actually read and believed the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next door -
The Arab farmer is not part of the Israel vs Hezbollah issue. He is just a simple peasant with 50 olive trees, who sells his olives in the market, has a cup of mint tea on the way home has dinner and shags his wife. ie, a normal life. Why does Israel always put these walls up on Arabs land, and often of another countries ladn (look at the way the border has drifted form the 48 original), and never on a Jewish farmers land? Because Israeli law does not protect the Arab, it only protects the Jew.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
Because Israeli law does not protect the Arab, it only protects the Jew.
Actualy it does, if you are an Israeli Arab. You do realise 11 members of the knesset, a supreme court justice and about 20% of the IDF are Arabs of various faiths.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Utter nonsense. If the poor sods killed by the bombs choose not to leave or are held against their will after being given a number of warnings that the bombs are coming then what more can the Israelis do if they have intelligence or believe that the targets, themselves, are legitimate? You need to realise that the terrorists use their own women and shildren as human shields in the foolish belief that Israel will not attack or they attack from so close to UN posts as to put those posts in mortal danger as has now been seen.
home
bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next door>>You need to realise that the terrorists use their own women and shildren as human shields in >>the foolish belief that Israel will not attack And your people gladly fire away at them, which makes me think that you are just as bad as them.
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fat_boy wrote:
Because Israeli law does not protect the Arab, it only protects the Jew.
Actualy it does, if you are an Israeli Arab. You do realise 11 members of the knesset, a supreme court justice and about 20% of the IDF are Arabs of various faiths.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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OK, make that Arab Muslims then that the law doesnt protect. Yes, there are Arab christians too, like the ones responsible for the Sabra Shatilla masacre.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Er, no. Their are manhy Muslim and Druze arabs represented in the IDF and Knesset. Most Bedu families in Israel have at least one member in the IDF. They are treated pretty badly in most Arab countries. There are ethnic restrictions on Israeli immigation, but Arab citizens have complete equality under the law. Surveys of Isreali arabs come up with a figure of about 70% who say they would stay in Israel after any potential 2 state solution. -- modified at 7:40 Friday 28th July, 2006
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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>>So one side's dead babies are more important No, I have never ever said that.. I consider the Hezzbollahs to be terrorists and should be destroyed. However by killing babies and civilians, I pretty much get the same opinion about Israel. In order to not appear as bad as the terrorists, Israel should give higest priority to not harm the civilians, even if it costs more Israeli soldiers lives when they cant use bomb raids. This is not how Israel currently handles the matter, they attack in blind rage. //Roger
One rule for the Jews then and one for us, fucking typical.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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One rule for the Jews then and one for us, fucking typical.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Your like one of those high pitch yorkshire terriers barking away. "Oh my owner digital man says this, Id better bark with him , yapp yapp yapp"
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Shagging your wife is normal?!? The border has not, as you so disingenuously put it, shifted from 48. You really like your own skewed view of history, don't you? How many ohter countries have ever given up land won by war or have even been asked to? Why should they just wander back to unsafe borders without any concessions from the muslims? Or are they somehow different form the rest of humanity as you seem to feel Jews are?
fat_boy wrote:
Because Israeli law does not protect the Arab, it only protects the Jew.
This is complete rubbish: firstly the population of Israel is by no means 100% Jewish and any citizen of Israel, regardless of ethnicity, has exactly the same rights under the law as every other citizen. You sound like you actually read and believed the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doordigital man wrote:
How many ohter countries have ever given up land won by war or have even been asked to
Russia, Great Britian, France, Germany, etc etc etc.
digital man wrote:
any citizen of Israel, regardless of ethnicity, has exactly the same rights under the law as every other citizen.
In theory, but in practice? Did you look at the B'Tselem yet? Open your eyes to the truth man. And the settlers are worse then the IDF.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Your like one of those high pitch yorkshire terriers barking away. "Oh my owner digital man says this, Id better bark with him , yapp yapp yapp"
Yeah, my check from Zog is in the post. You antisemetic turd.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Yeah, my check from Zog is in the post. You antisemetic turd.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
>>You antisemetic turd. I have nothing against Jews. I just find the current actions of the country Israel wrong. It has nothing to do with my view of neither its citizens nor the main religion there. Now have a frolic.. goood boooy..
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Er, no. Their are manhy Muslim and Druze arabs represented in the IDF and Knesset. Most Bedu families in Israel have at least one member in the IDF. They are treated pretty badly in most Arab countries. There are ethnic restrictions on Israeli immigation, but Arab citizens have complete equality under the law. Surveys of Isreali arabs come up with a figure of about 70% who say they would stay in Israel after any potential 2 state solution. -- modified at 7:40 Friday 28th July, 2006
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Look, I don t care if there are 12.5% left handed, zarathrustrians in the friggin Israeli army. Fact is, the Arab is unequal to a Jew in the eyes of their society. You want proof? Look at http://www.btselem.org/english/About_BTselem/Index.asp[^]
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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fat_boy wrote:
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
There are 3 kinds of reality: yours, mine and the truth. I can't see how we'd ever agree on Israel: our positions are so polarised and you are correct when you say my position is colored by my Jewishness. How could it not be? What is coloring your position? (and don't say dead babies: there are too many dead on both sides).
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bookmarks You can ignore relatives but the neighbours live next doorI would just like all people to pull back just a little, then a little more then....