USA - extremist haters
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espeir wrote:
P.S., as we see in the US, a liberal "election" isn't actually "democratic"
On the other hand, something certified by the US Supreme Court is kosher. Even when that court holds up vote counting to debate the issues and then says there is no time to count the votes before Jan 20, 2000. Why couldn't the court have allowed the vote counting to proceed while the issues were debated? Because, boo hoo, that would violate Dubya's constitutional rights. How about the constitutional rights of US citizens to have their votes count in a presidential election? US citizens only have the right to get killed in a war started by chickenhawks like Dubya, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
Vivic wrote:
On the other hand, something certified by the US Supreme Court is kosher. Even when that court holds up vote counting to debate the issues and then says there is no time to count the votes before Jan 20, 2000.
Thanks. I left out that left-wing attempt to subvert democracy, too. If you recall, the Democrats wanted to change the rules for vote counting because they didn't like the results. The Supreme Court stated that doing so is illegal (duh!) and put a stop to it. BTW, every legal subsequent recount yielded the same results. Boo hoo! You lost!
-- modified at 12:38 Tuesday 8th August, 2006
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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ihoecken wrote:
Gratulation. I know it, too. But the interpretation of the bible is little bit difficulter than you think. Just to know the definition of a word isn't enough to interpretate the whole text.
Yes, I know that you now know since I posted the definition for you. Remember how you claimed that Wikipedia's identical defintion was wrong right before that? That has nothing to do with your misinterpretation of the Bible and everything to do with your misinterpretation of "words".
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
Remember how you claimed that Wikipedia's identical defintion was wrong right before that?
I said that the cross-reference don't must be correct at all, that's right! I didn't say that wikipedia doesn't know the meaning of the word, but that they doesn't automatically be right with the interpretation. You'll perhaps know, that this is an often phisophically discussed problem among theologians. And I say that I won't see it that way, because of the interpretation of the bible. I don't misinterpret the words. I know the English meaning ofr fornication, but that doesn't mean that the Hebraic or Aramaic meaning is the same... Regards, Ingo
------------------------------ PROST Roleplaying Game War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.
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dennisd45 wrote:
Fantasy world. Defending communists? McCarthy wasn't finding communists, he was terrorizing people. First you say you don't like overthrowing governments, but now you say it's OK.
Care to give some examples? McCarthy was on a fact-finding mission to root out Communists hidden in American society (mostly government). McCarthyism is simply accusing somebody of being a Communist and later finding out that they really are. Are you saying that if there were Shiite terrorists in key government positions that you wouldn't want to know?
dennisd45 wrote:
Better brush up on your history. The Sandinistas were not overthrown, and they held Nicaragua's first multi-party elections in 1984, which they won (nascent democracy). Reagan, went behind Congress's back to fund an illegal insurgency (Contras), he even went so far as to deal with the Iranians to help fund it(Iran-Contra scandal).
I didn't say they were overthrown. I said they overthrew the government before them. Once again you're taking the anti-Democratic, pro-liberal side. (P.S., as we see in the US, a liberal "election" isn't actually "democratic").
dennisd45 wrote:
So you think it is OK to subvert democracy to save it? Very curious position.
That's not subverting Democracy in any way shape or form. If you believe so, then you have no idea what democracy actuall is.
dennisd45 wrote:
Abu Ghraib. Dick Cheney: "The Geneva Convention does not apply"{
What did Abu Ghraib have to do with Republicans? It was a couple of kids with leashes. And I disagree with our courts. The Geneva Conventions don't apply to ununiformed combatants (read it sometime).
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
You go right ahead and look foolish. Defend McCarthy and McCarthyism all you like.
espeir wrote:
I didn't say they were overthrown.
Yeah, you did.
espeir wrote:
The Reagan administration funded anti-Communist revolutionaries who overthrew the government.
espeir wrote:
Once again you're taking the anti-Democratic, pro-liberal side.
You are speaking from ignorance. I will repeat: The Sandinistas held the first multi-party elections in 1984. In 1990 they peacefully gave up power when they lost the election. That sounds just like democracy to me. Reagan's contra war was anti-democratic, since he wished to overthrow the Sandinistas.
espeir wrote:
That's not subverting Democracy in any way shape or form. If you believe so, then you have no idea what democracy actuall is.
I fear it is you who does not understand democracy.
espeir wrote:
What did Abu Ghraib have to do with Republicans?
Gee, well, lets see: Both houses of Congress and the executive are controlled by Republicans. George Bush, a Republican and President, is the commander in chief of the armed forces.
espeir wrote:
And I disagree with our courts. The Geneva Conventions don't apply to ununiformed combatants
It's a good thing for the country that you are not the courts.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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Vivic wrote:
Let us see. If Stalin did it, it was bad. If Dubya does it, it is good. Nice argument.
Stalin did it to his own people for political subjugation. Dubya does it to foreign terrorist with whom we are at war. Big difference.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
Stalin did it to his own people for political subjugation.
The Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, etc., probably don't think of themselves as Stalin's own people but who cares about facts?
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He didn't defend Nazis. A liberal group encouraged him to visit "American Soldiers" there and it turned out there were only Nazi Soldiers. Typical.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
A liberal group encouraged him to visit "American Soldiers" there and it turned out there were only Nazi Soldiers
Typical espeir garbage. Who is this liberal group - Helmut Kohl? Michael Deaver? -- modified at 12:44 Tuesday 8th August, 2006
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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You go right ahead and look foolish. Defend McCarthy and McCarthyism all you like.
espeir wrote:
I didn't say they were overthrown.
Yeah, you did.
espeir wrote:
The Reagan administration funded anti-Communist revolutionaries who overthrew the government.
espeir wrote:
Once again you're taking the anti-Democratic, pro-liberal side.
You are speaking from ignorance. I will repeat: The Sandinistas held the first multi-party elections in 1984. In 1990 they peacefully gave up power when they lost the election. That sounds just like democracy to me. Reagan's contra war was anti-democratic, since he wished to overthrow the Sandinistas.
espeir wrote:
That's not subverting Democracy in any way shape or form. If you believe so, then you have no idea what democracy actuall is.
I fear it is you who does not understand democracy.
espeir wrote:
What did Abu Ghraib have to do with Republicans?
Gee, well, lets see: Both houses of Congress and the executive are controlled by Republicans. George Bush, a Republican and President, is the commander in chief of the armed forces.
espeir wrote:
And I disagree with our courts. The Geneva Conventions don't apply to ununiformed combatants
It's a good thing for the country that you are not the courts.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
You go right ahead and look foolish. Defend McCarthy and McCarthyism all you like.
So then you have no problem with militant terrorists in key government positions?
dennisd45 wrote:
Yeah, you did.
I admit the sentence could be interpreted either way. I intended for it to state that the sandanistas were communists who overthrew their existing government.
dennisd45 wrote:
You are speaking from ignorance. I will repeat: The Sandinistas held the first multi-party elections in 1984. In 1990 they peacefully gave up power when they lost the election. That sounds just like democracy to me. Reagan's contra war was anti-democratic, since he wished to overthrow the Sandinistas.
Again, I suggest you review the left-wing concept of "democracy". Cuba considers itself a democracy, too.
dennisd45 wrote:
Gee, well, lets see: Both houses of Congress and the executive are controlled by Republicans. George Bush, a Republican and President, is the commander in chief of the armed forces.
Ummm...So? Does that mean that every murder committed while Carter was president (and there were very many) is the Democrat's fault? A crime is a crime and those involved were punished (meaning it's the very opposite of state-sponsored "toture" that you're attempting to paint it as).
dennisd45 wrote:
It's a good thing for the country that you are not the courts.
I accept the courts position in our government. However, being a Republican, I believe in free speech and can therefore express my disagreement with the courts. If liberals had power, I would immediately be called a Nazi and be imprisoned.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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espeir wrote:
A liberal group encouraged him to visit "American Soldiers" there and it turned out there were only Nazi Soldiers
Typical espeir garbage. Who is this liberal group - Helmut Kohl? Michael Deaver? -- modified at 12:44 Tuesday 8th August, 2006
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
"Europe".
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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led mike wrote:
I must be having a moment but I still don't get the point
okay - I guess I'm be obscure. Before I net it out, I need to give some back ground. I grew up a Democrat. My father was a blue collar union steelworker, a committed Democrat. In those days both parties cared deeply about the defense of the country. The differences were marginal, especially in my youth which was immediately post-WWII. In the Veitnam era the Demoract part became nearly violently anti-war and stayed that way for a long time. Carter was the epitome, anti-war and a cowardly leader combined. Clinton for all his moral mishaps brought the Democrat party to the middle where the majority of Americans live - that is why, even with his moral turpitude the majority of the country stood behind him. The Iraq war is bringing the nut job Democrats out of the wood work pushing good men like Leiberman aside. Instead of working with the current administration to bring about a decent out come they're pushing solely for political gain, much like the bemoaned McCathyites (Republicans) did on the push against communism. Lanny Davis is decrying that extremism. Remember, he's a loyal Democrat but a Democrat who lives in the middle and not the extreme left (Dean, Soros, Lamont). Lanny is one of the first to speak up, and that is good. But watch the primaries. If the Democrats continue running to the left, dropping Leiberman in favor of Lamont then you'll see bigger Republican majorities because of the two choices that is the logical place for the middle to go.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
Wow nice post!
Mike Gaskey wrote:
that is the logical place for the middle to go.
There is no place for the middle to go any more. People like McCain used to be the middle but it is obvious he has been whipped into submission by the political machine that knows it needs the sheep that follow those like Falwell in order to win elections.
led mike
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espeir wrote:
Stalin did it to his own people for political subjugation.
The Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, etc., probably don't think of themselves as Stalin's own people but who cares about facts?
I'm sure you don't think of yourself as one of "Bush's people" either. But who cares about facts?
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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dennisd45 wrote:
You go right ahead and look foolish. Defend McCarthy and McCarthyism all you like.
So then you have no problem with militant terrorists in key government positions?
dennisd45 wrote:
Yeah, you did.
I admit the sentence could be interpreted either way. I intended for it to state that the sandanistas were communists who overthrew their existing government.
dennisd45 wrote:
You are speaking from ignorance. I will repeat: The Sandinistas held the first multi-party elections in 1984. In 1990 they peacefully gave up power when they lost the election. That sounds just like democracy to me. Reagan's contra war was anti-democratic, since he wished to overthrow the Sandinistas.
Again, I suggest you review the left-wing concept of "democracy". Cuba considers itself a democracy, too.
dennisd45 wrote:
Gee, well, lets see: Both houses of Congress and the executive are controlled by Republicans. George Bush, a Republican and President, is the commander in chief of the armed forces.
Ummm...So? Does that mean that every murder committed while Carter was president (and there were very many) is the Democrat's fault? A crime is a crime and those involved were punished (meaning it's the very opposite of state-sponsored "toture" that you're attempting to paint it as).
dennisd45 wrote:
It's a good thing for the country that you are not the courts.
I accept the courts position in our government. However, being a Republican, I believe in free speech and can therefore express my disagreement with the courts. If liberals had power, I would immediately be called a Nazi and be imprisoned.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
So then you have no problem with militant terrorists in key government positions?
Mindless trolling.
espeir wrote:
dennisd45 wrote: You are speaking from ignorance. I will repeat: The Sandinistas held the first multi-party elections in 1984. In 1990 they peacefully gave up power when they lost the election. That sounds just like democracy to me. Reagan's contra war was anti-democratic, since he wished to overthrow the Sandinistas. Again, I suggest you review the left-wing concept of "democracy". Cuba considers itself a democracy, too.
Again, I suggest that you do not understand. They held elections, they relinquished power.
espeir wrote:
I believe in free speech and can therefore express my disagreement with the courts. If liberals had power, I would immediately be called a Nazi and be imprisoned.
Coming from a rabid Bush supporter, I find that entertaining. Republicans are the ones that are throwing the acusation of treason around pretty freely these days. They are the ones who appear to wish for the end of free speach speech. -- modified at 13:15 Tuesday 8th August, 2006
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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Wow nice post!
Mike Gaskey wrote:
that is the logical place for the middle to go.
There is no place for the middle to go any more. People like McCain used to be the middle but it is obvious he has been whipped into submission by the political machine that knows it needs the sheep that follow those like Falwell in order to win elections.
led mike
led mike wrote:
There is no place for the middle to go any more. People like McCain used to be the middle but it is obvious he has been whipped into submission by the political machine that knows it needs the sheep that follow those like Falwell in order to win elections.
A comment like this clearly shows that you are not part of the middle. Anybody who thinks Falwell has political clout (having lost several Republican primaries and branded as a looney by nearly all conservatives) on the right is clearly under the control of left-wing propaganda.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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espeir wrote:
So then you have no problem with militant terrorists in key government positions?
Mindless trolling.
espeir wrote:
dennisd45 wrote: You are speaking from ignorance. I will repeat: The Sandinistas held the first multi-party elections in 1984. In 1990 they peacefully gave up power when they lost the election. That sounds just like democracy to me. Reagan's contra war was anti-democratic, since he wished to overthrow the Sandinistas. Again, I suggest you review the left-wing concept of "democracy". Cuba considers itself a democracy, too.
Again, I suggest that you do not understand. They held elections, they relinquished power.
espeir wrote:
I believe in free speech and can therefore express my disagreement with the courts. If liberals had power, I would immediately be called a Nazi and be imprisoned.
Coming from a rabid Bush supporter, I find that entertaining. Republicans are the ones that are throwing the acusation of treason around pretty freely these days. They are the ones who appear to wish for the end of free speach speech. -- modified at 13:15 Tuesday 8th August, 2006
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
Mindless trolling.
Why don't you answer the question? are you or are you not OK with Muslim extremists holding key government positions? Because McCarthyism dealt with the exact same thing.
dennisd45 wrote:
Again, I suggest that you do not understand. They held elections, they relinquished power
Do you understand that Cuba also has "elections"? And they did not "relinquish power". They overwhelmingly won.
dennisd45 wrote:
Coming from a rabid Bush supporter, I find that entertaining. Republicans are the ones that are throwing the acusation of treason around pretty freely these days. They are the ones who appear to wish for the end of free speach.
Exposing secret programs dealing with national security that endanger the lives of Americans is not protected by free speech and never has been. The Supreme Court has ruled on this numerous times. I'm embarassed that appropriate action has not been taken against the guilty parties and consider Bush an absolute failure in that regard.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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espeir wrote:
Oh no! You mean they actually rooted out some Communist spies??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
No, I don't mean that. Are you ignorant or trolling?
espeir wrote:
Good thing we Republicans are able to limit left-wing power in this country! Leftists have a nasty track record of disregarding Democracy and overthrowing governments.
Republicans: Nicaragua, Panama, Grenada, warrentless wire taps, torture, secret detention. Not too great a track record there.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
No, I don't mean that. Are you ignorant or trolling?
Pay no attention. He's just mad that his fillings are scrambling the incoming propaganda signals from the commies. Despite what he says, he likes a steady stream of input from the Reds.
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dennisd45 wrote:
No, I don't mean that. Are you ignorant or trolling?
Pay no attention. He's just mad that his fillings are scrambling the incoming propaganda signals from the commies. Despite what he says, he likes a steady stream of input from the Reds.
thealj wrote:
the Reds
I call them "Pinko Commie Scum". It's more descriptive.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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"Europe".
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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thealj wrote:
the Reds
I call them "Pinko Commie Scum". It's more descriptive.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
I call them "Pinko Commie Scum". It's more descriptive.
See your dentist lately? A couple of cavities could help with the signal problems... But really, you're saying you feel threatened by communists? Who are these lurking commies that threaten our sacred democracy? It's not the left - they participate in open elections and accept victory or defeat depending on the outcome. Seriously though - maybe you are concerned about Cuba and North Korea? I mean a couple of North Korean nukes setup on Cuba to replace the old Soviet ones and some "free" oil from good ol' Hue Chavez to fill the tanks and they're all ripe for invasion. Why don't you lobby congress about it? I mean, it's not like the missles even have to be there. Just quote the Iraq precedent and claim they are actually there! It worked before, you know. I mean, Cuba is a nice place - sun, sand, warm weather, good education too I hear. Just grab it - two days of invasion, max. Think of the expansion room for Guantanamo. You could use the entire island!
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dennisd45 wrote:
Mindless trolling.
Why don't you answer the question? are you or are you not OK with Muslim extremists holding key government positions? Because McCarthyism dealt with the exact same thing.
dennisd45 wrote:
Again, I suggest that you do not understand. They held elections, they relinquished power
Do you understand that Cuba also has "elections"? And they did not "relinquish power". They overwhelmingly won.
dennisd45 wrote:
Coming from a rabid Bush supporter, I find that entertaining. Republicans are the ones that are throwing the acusation of treason around pretty freely these days. They are the ones who appear to wish for the end of free speach.
Exposing secret programs dealing with national security that endanger the lives of Americans is not protected by free speech and never has been. The Supreme Court has ruled on this numerous times. I'm embarassed that appropriate action has not been taken against the guilty parties and consider Bush an absolute failure in that regard.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
Why don't you answer the question? are you or are you not OK with Muslim extremists holding key government positions? Because McCarthyism dealt with the exact same thing.
Are you suggesting we institute loyalty oaths, compel people to inform against their neighbors and the like? That was McCarthyism. If he was such a hero to the people, why did Eisenhower shut him down? Knowing that McCarthyism was a stain on this country DOES NOT in any way mean I want Muslim extremists holding key government positions.
espeir wrote:
Do you understand that Cuba also has "elections"? And they did not "relinquish power". They overwhelmingly won.
So? We are talking about Nicaragua.
espeir wrote:
Exposing secret programs dealing with national security that endanger the lives of Americans is not protected by free speech and never has been. The Supreme Court has ruled on this numerous times. I'm embarassed that appropriate action has not been taken against the guilty parties and consider Bush an absolute failure in that regard.
The supreme court has recently ruled clearly against Bush in his war on terrorism.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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espeir wrote:
Why don't you answer the question? are you or are you not OK with Muslim extremists holding key government positions? Because McCarthyism dealt with the exact same thing.
Are you suggesting we institute loyalty oaths, compel people to inform against their neighbors and the like? That was McCarthyism. If he was such a hero to the people, why did Eisenhower shut him down? Knowing that McCarthyism was a stain on this country DOES NOT in any way mean I want Muslim extremists holding key government positions.
espeir wrote:
Do you understand that Cuba also has "elections"? And they did not "relinquish power". They overwhelmingly won.
So? We are talking about Nicaragua.
espeir wrote:
Exposing secret programs dealing with national security that endanger the lives of Americans is not protected by free speech and never has been. The Supreme Court has ruled on this numerous times. I'm embarassed that appropriate action has not been taken against the guilty parties and consider Bush an absolute failure in that regard.
The supreme court has recently ruled clearly against Bush in his war on terrorism.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
Are you suggesting we institute loyalty oaths, compel people to inform against their neighbors and the like? That was McCarthyism. If he was such a hero to the people, why did Eisenhower shut him down? Knowing that McCarthyism was a stain on this country DOES NOT in any way mean I want Muslim extremists holding key government positions.
Loyalty oaths? Like the Pledge of Allegiance? Like the oath every federal government official has to take when accepting a job? Ummm..Yes. Now answer my question...Do you believe that Muslim Extremists should be allowed to hold key government positions? You can go either way on this, but I want to know where you stand, because it says a lot.
dennisd45 wrote:
So? We are talking about Nicaragua.
And their sham election. You know...the kinds that leftists have.
dennisd45 wrote:
The supreme court has recently ruled clearly against Bush in his war on terrorism.
Duh, I already said that. However, the Supreme Court has not ruled that classified information related to national security can be legally exposed, which is what the NYT did several times.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
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dennisd45 wrote:
Are you suggesting we institute loyalty oaths, compel people to inform against their neighbors and the like? That was McCarthyism. If he was such a hero to the people, why did Eisenhower shut him down? Knowing that McCarthyism was a stain on this country DOES NOT in any way mean I want Muslim extremists holding key government positions.
Loyalty oaths? Like the Pledge of Allegiance? Like the oath every federal government official has to take when accepting a job? Ummm..Yes. Now answer my question...Do you believe that Muslim Extremists should be allowed to hold key government positions? You can go either way on this, but I want to know where you stand, because it says a lot.
dennisd45 wrote:
So? We are talking about Nicaragua.
And their sham election. You know...the kinds that leftists have.
dennisd45 wrote:
The supreme court has recently ruled clearly against Bush in his war on terrorism.
Duh, I already said that. However, the Supreme Court has not ruled that classified information related to national security can be legally exposed, which is what the NYT did several times.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
You can go either way on this, but I want to know where you stand, because it says a lot.
:^) Ah, is that the reinvigorated smell of the House UnAmerican Activities Committee?
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espeir wrote:
I call them "Pinko Commie Scum". It's more descriptive.
See your dentist lately? A couple of cavities could help with the signal problems... But really, you're saying you feel threatened by communists? Who are these lurking commies that threaten our sacred democracy? It's not the left - they participate in open elections and accept victory or defeat depending on the outcome. Seriously though - maybe you are concerned about Cuba and North Korea? I mean a couple of North Korean nukes setup on Cuba to replace the old Soviet ones and some "free" oil from good ol' Hue Chavez to fill the tanks and they're all ripe for invasion. Why don't you lobby congress about it? I mean, it's not like the missles even have to be there. Just quote the Iraq precedent and claim they are actually there! It worked before, you know. I mean, Cuba is a nice place - sun, sand, warm weather, good education too I hear. Just grab it - two days of invasion, max. Think of the expansion room for Guantanamo. You could use the entire island!
thealj wrote:
But really, you're saying you feel threatened by communists? Who are these lurking commies that threaten our sacred democracy? It's not the left - they participate in open elections and accept victory or defeat depending on the outcome.
No, but the country did used to feel threatened by them in the same way that we now feel threatened by Muslim Extremists. Both were reasonable fears, too. However, the left does NOT paticipate in legitimate elections. They have a long and rich history of undermining fair and democratic elections. Just look at Mexico right now. I am first and foremost opposed to anybody who intends to strip the will of the people (and secondarily to people who want to impose leftist ideals). The first is a greater threat and is something often attempted by the left (it's hard to go an election even here in the US in which the left commits fraud then accuses the right of doing it). It's even a leftist ideal to strip Americans of democratic rights (just ask Vincent Reynolds).
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45