Home schooling
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Thanks Justin - that gave me a new perspective on home schooling :-) Are there professional home schooling teachers available?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Thanks Justin - that gave me a new perspective on home schooling :)
You're welcome. :)
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Are there professional home schooling teachers available?
Those would be called tutors. :) Fulltime tutoring tends to be expensive as there is a higher demand than the number of tutors that exist. More often, homeschooling parents who want a bit of help with their teaching (for example, with a particular subject) will have someone in their support group who is an expert in a particular subject teach many of the kids together, hire a part-time tutor, use certified online tutoring services, or buy a video or computer course. Video courses are quite popular. They bring chemistry to life before your eyes, teach you a foreign language by listening to and imitating native speakers, and let you trace the steps of Lewis and Clark, the Pilgrims, or the Spanish Conquistadors. Computer courses can teach you keyboard step-by-step while monitoring your progress via MIDI, let you try out building simulated electronic circuits, let you explore the biomes of the world, and let you interact virtually with native speakers of a foreign language, while giving feedback on your pronunciation. Even with traditional coursework, it is usually not requisite that the parent know very much to begin with about the subject being taught - as long as the parent is willing to learn along with the student in the areas that the parent does not know as well. There is a lot of curriculum out there to choose from that thoroughly covers all the subjects. Also, as the student learns how to learn and research, he will usually get ahead of the parents in his knowledge. I did that with a host of different subjects during my homeschool education.
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I still don't see how a kid can be socialable when being at home all the time. Also, this still doesn't address the issue of the kid not being able to play sports, band, etc. that require a bunch of people. I think these are also important for development. I don't see how home schooling will allow for this. But at least with school, you can make sure a kid is learning by paying attention to what he/she is learning. There's no rule saying you don't have to be involved just because they go to school.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Also, this still doesn't address the issue of the kid not being able to play sports, band, etc. that require a bunch of people. I think these are also important for development. I don't see how home schooling will allow for this.
There's no reason why homeschooling families can't get together to provide those things - and they do so. When there aren't other homeschooling families around, parents will often utilize community or private- or public- school programs specifically for those subjects. Also some larger families will just form their own small family band, acting club, etc.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
But at least with school, you can make sure a kid is learning by paying attention to what he/she is learning. There's no rule saying you don't have to be involved just because they go to school.
Definitely - a parent can do quite a bit to help the child along in a conventional school situation as well. But a lot of parents who homeschool started doing so because they felt the schools were doing a lousy job, were tired of meeting up with resistance from the school when trying to take a more active role in their kids' education, and saw that the conventional school system got in the way of the child learning in the style that best fit his/her needs.
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I still don't see how a kid can be socialable when being at home all the time. Also, this still doesn't address the issue of the kid not being able to play sports, band, etc. that require a bunch of people. I think these are also important for development. I don't see how home schooling will allow for this. But at least with school, you can make sure a kid is learning by paying attention to what he/she is learning. There's no rule saying you don't have to be involved just because they go to school.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I still don't see how a kid can be socialable when being at home all the time.
That assumes that the kids *are* at home all the time, which almost never happens. (Read the part of my post about community involvement.) Also, kids who are taught at home usually get along better with their family members, which translates into getting along better with people outside the home.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Knowledge is priceless.
And yet, a slacker coder like me can still make more than most teachers... :doh:
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Shog9 wrote:
And yet, a slacker coder like me can still make more than most teachers
Around here, if you factor in the 3 month vacation and their benefit package, teachers don't do that badly compared to run of the mill coders. Of course, the one opportunity they don't have is to go with a startup and juicy stock options.
The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
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My son is only 19 months old so I still have a few years to go before I have to battle the state about home schooling issues but in my personal opinion the state shouldn't be able to tell me what my child should or should not be taught. If I opt to home school should I have full control over what my child learns without "big brother" watching him and testing him by their standards every year? My wife and I talked about it and she mentioned that the state should be able to say that you must teach things like reading, writing, and math but in my thinking if they can say my child has to study those topics then why can't they say he has to study foreign religions or devil worship or any other silly thing under the sun? What are y'alls thoughts? -Richard
White flag here, seriously curious. I`m used to a system where it`s mandatory for kids 6-16 to attend an approved school, whether public or private. Is home schooling a state or federal thing? What`s the proportion of kids having home schooling in the US vs private vs public school?
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Shog9 wrote:
And yet, a slacker coder like me can still make more than most teachers
Around here, if you factor in the 3 month vacation and their benefit package, teachers don't do that badly compared to run of the mill coders. Of course, the one opportunity they don't have is to go with a startup and juicy stock options.
The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
Tim Craig wrote:
if you factor in the 3 month vacation
Yeah, that's a big one. Man, the things i could do with three months of vacation... (of course, i'd blow them sleeping and drinking, but... the possibilities!)
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My son is only 19 months old so I still have a few years to go before I have to battle the state about home schooling issues but in my personal opinion the state shouldn't be able to tell me what my child should or should not be taught. If I opt to home school should I have full control over what my child learns without "big brother" watching him and testing him by their standards every year? My wife and I talked about it and she mentioned that the state should be able to say that you must teach things like reading, writing, and math but in my thinking if they can say my child has to study those topics then why can't they say he has to study foreign religions or devil worship or any other silly thing under the sun? What are y'alls thoughts? -Richard
Of course they should have input if not control on what is taught. He needs to be at a certain standard at the end of each schooling year before progressing to the next. How is this to be done without tests comparing him to other students of the same standard. Also, how is the state (or anyone for that matter) to know that you are not some whack job teaching him devil worship or terrorism. Also are you or your wife qualified to teach him anything?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Kyle (Pumpkin) is home schooled, and his highly odd behavior in these forums have been far different from that of a regular teenager. Using him as an example, I am not so sure homeschooling is very desirable.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Hey. I was homeschooled. Then again...I'm not so sure if I just bolstered your point... :doh:
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Hey. I was homeschooled. Then again...I'm not so sure if I just bolstered your point... :doh:
Eh, now he'll just be convinced that homeschooled kids end up being Firefox-using script coders. ;)
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Of course they should have input if not control on what is taught. He needs to be at a certain standard at the end of each schooling year before progressing to the next. How is this to be done without tests comparing him to other students of the same standard. Also, how is the state (or anyone for that matter) to know that you are not some whack job teaching him devil worship or terrorism. Also are you or your wife qualified to teach him anything?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
He needs to be at a certain standard at the end of each schooling year before progressing to the next.
IMHO, the interesting thing about this is simply that it can work better if such standards are a bit lax. Looking at my own family, i latched onto maths fairly quickly, but took a bit longer to become comfortable reading, and my spelling and grammar has always been poor. In contrast one of my sisters never cared too much for maths, but had already learned to read quite well by the age of five, while one of my brothers struggled with most subjects, and didn't gain the patience and drive to write well until nearly twenty... at which point he was in his second year of university education, and suddenly started churning out carefully written, well-reasoned papers as a venue for the argumentative trait that up 'till then had been focussed more on making conversation uncomfortable for those around him. :) (We did participate in standardized tests each year, but the average on such tests is... quite low. The value provided by them was simply in learning how to take tests, something that came in handy later when the need to pass college entrance exams arose.)
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Michael Martin wrote:
He needs to be at a certain standard at the end of each schooling year before progressing to the next.
IMHO, the interesting thing about this is simply that it can work better if such standards are a bit lax. Looking at my own family, i latched onto maths fairly quickly, but took a bit longer to become comfortable reading, and my spelling and grammar has always been poor. In contrast one of my sisters never cared too much for maths, but had already learned to read quite well by the age of five, while one of my brothers struggled with most subjects, and didn't gain the patience and drive to write well until nearly twenty... at which point he was in his second year of university education, and suddenly started churning out carefully written, well-reasoned papers as a venue for the argumentative trait that up 'till then had been focussed more on making conversation uncomfortable for those around him. :) (We did participate in standardized tests each year, but the average on such tests is... quite low. The value provided by them was simply in learning how to take tests, something that came in handy later when the need to pass college entrance exams arose.)
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So was it your maths hating sister, your impatient brother or your weird deep fried cheese curd loving self who couldn't spell Josh and came up with Shog? I wouldn't use any of your family as posterchildren for home schooling. ;P
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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So was it your maths hating sister, your impatient brother or your weird deep fried cheese curd loving self who couldn't spell Josh and came up with Shog? I wouldn't use any of your family as posterchildren for home schooling. ;P
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
So was it your maths hating sister, your impatient brother or your weird deep fried cheese curd loving self who couldn't spell Josh and came up with Shog?
Oh, there've been plenty of corruptions of my name... the current one is "Uncle osh-osh", coined by my little Aussie nephew when he was visiting this past summer. It's just as well; apparently the names Josh and Joshua were rather popular choices the year i was born, so at least with the odd nicknames i can recognize it when my family's talking to me in crowded areas. As for posterchildren... i'd put myself out there as an ideal slacker, but it sounds like something i'd have to... maintain... so, yeah.
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Richard Parsons wrote:
What are y'alls thoughts?
If you choose not to teach your child basic skills that will allow him/her to be productive will you support your child forever and never burden us tax-payers with his/her welfare?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Absolutely. I believe it should be the burden of the family to help other family members in general. Why should I pay tax dollars to support some lazy guy and his lazy wife that won't work and only sit around on their butts all day having sex and making more babies that I will have to support also. I may be a Christian but natural selection needs to be given some free reign don't you think? -Richard
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I still don't see how a kid can be socialable when being at home all the time. Also, this still doesn't address the issue of the kid not being able to play sports, band, etc. that require a bunch of people. I think these are also important for development. I don't see how home schooling will allow for this. But at least with school, you can make sure a kid is learning by paying attention to what he/she is learning. There's no rule saying you don't have to be involved just because they go to school.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
There are home school groups that organize sports and band like activities. It is also possible in some states for home schooled kids to take those classes/activities in a regular public school and do all of there normal class work at home. It's possible because schools get tax dollars for it and some states even go as far as telling schools they can't deny homeschoolers that option. -Richard
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Tim Craig wrote:
if you factor in the 3 month vacation
Yeah, that's a big one. Man, the things i could do with three months of vacation... (of course, i'd blow them sleeping and drinking, but... the possibilities!)
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Sit around and watch tv?
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White flag here, seriously curious. I`m used to a system where it`s mandatory for kids 6-16 to attend an approved school, whether public or private. Is home schooling a state or federal thing? What`s the proportion of kids having home schooling in the US vs private vs public school?
Home schooling and all laws regarding it are at the state level so just about all 50 states have different rules and laws regarding them. I live in Arkansas and we actually had one of the best home school set of laws for three months until Governor Clinton helped us out and made us the most strict states. Luckily through the years our state government has repealed most of his additions and we are getting back on the right track but I'm going to still work on getting some more things repealed. One thing that pretty much stays the same between the states is the law that says kids from ages 5-18 must attend school and they can only not go to school under 18 if they have a high school diploma, some equivalent degree, or are attending a tech school for a specialize trade. Home schoolers in general make up a very small percent of the population. Here in Arkansas in 2005 there were only like 13,000 kids home schooling. I'm not sure of the number of normal schooling kids but I came from a very small school and we had 500 students in 7-12 grades so it wouldn't take but 4 or 5 normal sized schools to have 13,000 students. -Richard
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Of course they should have input if not control on what is taught. He needs to be at a certain standard at the end of each schooling year before progressing to the next. How is this to be done without tests comparing him to other students of the same standard. Also, how is the state (or anyone for that matter) to know that you are not some whack job teaching him devil worship or terrorism. Also are you or your wife qualified to teach him anything?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
How is this to be done without tests comparing him to other students of the same standard.
Why should we compare children to other children? If a child is doing their best then shouldn't that be good enough. Maybe they excel their peers or maybe they fall behind them but either way what is the point in making one of them feel stupid by comparing them with each other. We both know that just because two people happen to be the same age doesn't mean they are as smart as each other so why do we expect our children to conform to a certain level of intelligence when we don't enforce those standards on adults? It's because as adults we know that any such attempt would be pointless because each person is an individual with their own special talents and abilities. Kids are just the same. Let them grow at the rate they need and are able to and let's see if we don't get back to real creative thinking again.
Michael Martin wrote:
Also, how is the state (or anyone for that matter) to know that you are not some whack job teaching him devil worship or terrorism.
If I am a whack job teaching my kids devil worship or terrorism don't I still have that constitutional right? I believe the U.S.A. was formed on the idea that no man has the right to deny me freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As a free man I may wish to teach those things to my child and I may also wish to teach them normal educational subjects but without the narrow-mindedness that has crept into schools and our government. Now in schools it is OK to teach any religion or religious views except that of Christianity. If I want my child to look at not only the normal school book curriculum but also the biblical views then I am forced to home school.
Michael Martin wrote:
Also are you or your wife qualified to teach him anythin
Absolutely. In order to be a home school teacher all you must actually do is order curriculum from some entity and supply it and some instruction to your child. No college degree is required. That was the way school was taught up until about the 1900's. Teachers where nothing more than students that went to some sort of "teachers school" (Called a Normal School) for generally 3 months and they passed a test and they were teachers. We had a higher literacy rate and several set of generations that were real thinkers inst
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Home schooling and all laws regarding it are at the state level so just about all 50 states have different rules and laws regarding them. I live in Arkansas and we actually had one of the best home school set of laws for three months until Governor Clinton helped us out and made us the most strict states. Luckily through the years our state government has repealed most of his additions and we are getting back on the right track but I'm going to still work on getting some more things repealed. One thing that pretty much stays the same between the states is the law that says kids from ages 5-18 must attend school and they can only not go to school under 18 if they have a high school diploma, some equivalent degree, or are attending a tech school for a specialize trade. Home schoolers in general make up a very small percent of the population. Here in Arkansas in 2005 there were only like 13,000 kids home schooling. I'm not sure of the number of normal schooling kids but I came from a very small school and we had 500 students in 7-12 grades so it wouldn't take but 4 or 5 normal sized schools to have 13,000 students. -Richard
Thank you
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Michael Martin wrote:
How is this to be done without tests comparing him to other students of the same standard.
Why should we compare children to other children? If a child is doing their best then shouldn't that be good enough. Maybe they excel their peers or maybe they fall behind them but either way what is the point in making one of them feel stupid by comparing them with each other. We both know that just because two people happen to be the same age doesn't mean they are as smart as each other so why do we expect our children to conform to a certain level of intelligence when we don't enforce those standards on adults? It's because as adults we know that any such attempt would be pointless because each person is an individual with their own special talents and abilities. Kids are just the same. Let them grow at the rate they need and are able to and let's see if we don't get back to real creative thinking again.
Michael Martin wrote:
Also, how is the state (or anyone for that matter) to know that you are not some whack job teaching him devil worship or terrorism.
If I am a whack job teaching my kids devil worship or terrorism don't I still have that constitutional right? I believe the U.S.A. was formed on the idea that no man has the right to deny me freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As a free man I may wish to teach those things to my child and I may also wish to teach them normal educational subjects but without the narrow-mindedness that has crept into schools and our government. Now in schools it is OK to teach any religion or religious views except that of Christianity. If I want my child to look at not only the normal school book curriculum but also the biblical views then I am forced to home school.
Michael Martin wrote:
Also are you or your wife qualified to teach him anythin
Absolutely. In order to be a home school teacher all you must actually do is order curriculum from some entity and supply it and some instruction to your child. No college degree is required. That was the way school was taught up until about the 1900's. Teachers where nothing more than students that went to some sort of "teachers school" (Called a Normal School) for generally 3 months and they passed a test and they were teachers. We had a higher literacy rate and several set of generations that were real thinkers inst
Richard Parsons wrote:
Why should we compare children to other children? If a child is doing their best then shouldn't that be good enough. Maybe they excel their peers or maybe they fall behind them but either way what is the point in making one of them feel stupid by comparing them with each other. We both know that just because two people happen to be the same age doesn't mean they are as smart as each other so why do we expect our children to conform to a certain level of intelligence when we don't enforce those standards on adults? It's because as adults we know that any such attempt would be pointless because each person is an individual with their own special talents and abilities. Kids are just the same. Let them grow at the rate they need and are able to and let's see if we don't get back to real creative thinking again.
Please, start up a company, I'll come work for you. Sorry don't understand what you want, can't do the job. But don't fire me and give me a raise, it ain't my fault I'm stupid, don't give a rat's arse and ain't half the worker Joe is. Don't compare me to everyone else, this ain't communist China you know. I'm trying my best.
Richard Parsons wrote:
If I am a whack job teaching my kids devil worship or terrorism don't I still have that constitutional right? I believe the U.S.A. was formed on the idea that no man has the right to deny me freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As a free man I may wish to teach those things to my child and I may also wish to teach them normal educational subjects but without the narrow-mindedness that has crept into schools and our government. Now in schools it is OK to teach any religion or religious views except that of Christianity. If I want my child to look at not only the normal school book curriculum but also the biblical views then I am forced to home school.
So why aren't paedophiles protected by this wonderful constitution? Probably because the authors weren't twats and left as much freedom as possible while still allowing for the government to have some power to stop shit from happening to the defenceless (also known as children).
Richard Parsons wrote:
Absolutely. In order to be a home school teacher all you must actually do is order curriculum from some entity and supply it and some instruction to your child. No college degree is required.
Lovely, so trai
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Richard Parsons wrote:
Why should we compare children to other children? If a child is doing their best then shouldn't that be good enough. Maybe they excel their peers or maybe they fall behind them but either way what is the point in making one of them feel stupid by comparing them with each other. We both know that just because two people happen to be the same age doesn't mean they are as smart as each other so why do we expect our children to conform to a certain level of intelligence when we don't enforce those standards on adults? It's because as adults we know that any such attempt would be pointless because each person is an individual with their own special talents and abilities. Kids are just the same. Let them grow at the rate they need and are able to and let's see if we don't get back to real creative thinking again.
Please, start up a company, I'll come work for you. Sorry don't understand what you want, can't do the job. But don't fire me and give me a raise, it ain't my fault I'm stupid, don't give a rat's arse and ain't half the worker Joe is. Don't compare me to everyone else, this ain't communist China you know. I'm trying my best.
Richard Parsons wrote:
If I am a whack job teaching my kids devil worship or terrorism don't I still have that constitutional right? I believe the U.S.A. was formed on the idea that no man has the right to deny me freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As a free man I may wish to teach those things to my child and I may also wish to teach them normal educational subjects but without the narrow-mindedness that has crept into schools and our government. Now in schools it is OK to teach any religion or religious views except that of Christianity. If I want my child to look at not only the normal school book curriculum but also the biblical views then I am forced to home school.
So why aren't paedophiles protected by this wonderful constitution? Probably because the authors weren't twats and left as much freedom as possible while still allowing for the government to have some power to stop shit from happening to the defenceless (also known as children).
Richard Parsons wrote:
Absolutely. In order to be a home school teacher all you must actually do is order curriculum from some entity and supply it and some instruction to your child. No college degree is required.
Lovely, so trai
Michael Martin wrote:
Please, start up a company, I'll come work for you. Sorry don't understand what you want, can't do the job. But don't fire me and give me a raise, it ain't my fault I'm stupid, don't give a rat's arse and ain't half the worker Joe is. Don't compare me to everyone else, this ain't communist China you know. I'm trying my best.
I never said to hire idiots. I said we shouldn't compare children to each other because that isn't what we do as adults. We should pick the best and smartest people for our companies however that in no way translates into "you can be a slacker all you want and not get fired". Parents and/or Teachers should teach children to live up to their potential not be slackers. Being smart would actually mean something then. Currently it just means "I memorized more useless facts than you."
Michael Martin wrote:
Lovely, so trailer trash can home school as well.
Anyone and everyone should have the right to home school. If you put a limit on it based on the IQ of the parent then what stops you from putting a limit on it based on color of skin or religion?
Michael Martin wrote:
When the average child got what level of schooling? 3rd grage? 6th?
And yet they were still "smarter" than most kids these days. It was those 3rd or 6th grade educated kids that were the great inventors of America. It was in there common sense approach that helped them solve problems and build our nation. Kids that are taught to conform don't have common sense and they can't problem solve. Kids need to be taught to think not just memorize facts. Home schooled kids actually learn to think while kids in schools just memorize facts long enough to take a test and then they forget them. If you are going to argue against my points please THINK about what you are typing first. Don't give some pre-programmed response. -Richard