Did Hugo miss a payment?
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Diego Moita wrote:
Argentina is skyrocketing the public debt,...
Don't you mean "the US is skyrocketing public debt"? ;P
As a percentage of GDP, Argentina has us beat...
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Leading Bush critic at home calls Chavez a "thug"[^] Could it be that Stan was wrong about Hugo and his close ties to the Democratic party? Nah... this must be another scheme from "the left". :rolleyes: Alvaro
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
Its the result of internal polling by the dems. The public was reacting very negatively to Chavez so the dems came out to counter it. It won't be enough though, the damage has been done. It is chrystal clear who the dems are associated with politically and intellectually.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Leading Bush critic at home calls Chavez a "thug"[^] Could it be that Stan was wrong about Hugo and his close ties to the Democratic party? Nah... this must be another scheme from "the left". :rolleyes: Alvaro
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
What I don't get is...For all the Democrats' effort to expand constitutional protections to the most lurid of foreigners, why are they now saying that Chavez does not have 1st amendment protections?
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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A one for more partisan trolling. X|
Rob Graham wrote:
A one for more partisan trolling.
Fine, as long as you vote the same for all the other partisan trollers on this board. Hopefully you didn't miss the opportunity to vote down those posts where Chavez is framed as a spokesman for the Democratic party. Or did you find those to be appropriate?
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
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Rob Graham wrote:
A one for more partisan trolling.
Fine, as long as you vote the same for all the other partisan trollers on this board. Hopefully you didn't miss the opportunity to vote down those posts where Chavez is framed as a spokesman for the Democratic party. Or did you find those to be appropriate?
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Hopefully you didn't miss the opportunity to vote down those posts where Chavez is framed as a spokesman for the Democratic party.
Ironically, the Democratic leadership admitted that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs...But he didn't have the right to express them since he's not an American.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Hopefully you didn't miss the opportunity to vote down those posts where Chavez is framed as a spokesman for the Democratic party.
Ironically, the Democratic leadership admitted that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs...But he didn't have the right to express them since he's not an American.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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So you're not completely let down... http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=020BFC5A-FA7D-42CC-9BA6A4ED9DA063B8[^]
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Is Darwin Danielson your real name? The title says: Harkin defends Venezuelan President's U-N speech against Bush. But there's nothing in the article that proves conclusively that he's defending Chavez. Alvaro
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
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Is Darwin Danielson your real name? The title says: Harkin defends Venezuelan President's U-N speech against Bush. But there's nothing in the article that proves conclusively that he's defending Chavez. Alvaro
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
Harkin said the comments were "incendiary", then went on to say, "Let me put
it this way, I can understand the frustration, ah, and the anger of certain
people around the world because of George Bush's policies."That's a defense of Chavez. It dismisses his remarks as vented frustration.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Harkin said the comments were "incendiary", then went on to say, "Let me put
it this way, I can understand the frustration, ah, and the anger of certain
people around the world because of George Bush's policies."That's a defense of Chavez. It dismisses his remarks as vented frustration.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
That's a defense of Chavez. It dismisses his remarks as vented frustration.
I disagree. It's just a rationalization, like saying, "I can understand why the woman shot her abusive husband".
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
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Full of it as usual, dennisd45. Rangel[^]
"You don't come into my country, you don't come into my congressional
district, and you don't condemn my president. If there's any criticism of
President Bush, it should be restricted to Americans - whether we voted for him
or not," Rangel said.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Red Stateler wrote:
That's a defense of Chavez. It dismisses his remarks as vented frustration.
I disagree. It's just a rationalization, like saying, "I can understand why the woman shot her abusive husband".
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
Rationalization is defense. It's intent is to come up with a valid and excusable reason for an act.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Full of it as usual, dennisd45. Rangel[^]
"You don't come into my country, you don't come into my congressional
district, and you don't condemn my president. If there's any criticism of
President Bush, it should be restricted to Americans - whether we voted for him
or not," Rangel said.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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You really are full of it. How is the selected quote or any other part of your linked article a defense of Chavez?
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
You really are full of it. How is the selected quote or any other part of your linked article a defense of Chavez?
ummmm...Let's rewind a couple of posts. I think you're lost:
RedStateler wrote:
Ironically, the Democratic leadership admitted that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs...But he didn't have the right to express them since he's not an American.
As in Rangler said that only Americans (specifically him, since he once called Bush a "Bull Connor") have the right to use that kind of vitriolic rhetoric against the president. That's incongruous with their platform of extending constitutional rights to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Rationalization is defense. It's intent is to come up with a valid and excusable reason for an act.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Rationalization is defense.
Wrong. Rationalization is used to seek an understanding of the possible reasons behind an act. It does not defend the act or the person performing it; it only looks at why it could have been done. And that's a good thing. It's a lot easier to dismiss the act as wrong and the actor as irrational for doing it (especially when it's someone we don't like).
Red Stateler wrote:
It's intent is to come up with a valid and excusable reason for an act.
It's intent is to understand what could have caused the act.
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
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dennisd45 wrote:
You really are full of it. How is the selected quote or any other part of your linked article a defense of Chavez?
ummmm...Let's rewind a couple of posts. I think you're lost:
RedStateler wrote:
Ironically, the Democratic leadership admitted that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs...But he didn't have the right to express them since he's not an American.
As in Rangler said that only Americans (specifically him, since he once called Bush a "Bull Connor") have the right to use that kind of vitriolic rhetoric against the president. That's incongruous with their platform of extending constitutional rights to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
the Democratic leadership admitted that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs
Red Stateler wrote:
Let's rewind a couple of posts
You're right. I should have said: Nowhere in either article do Democrats admit that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs.
Red Stateler wrote:
That's incongruous with their platform of extending constitutional rights to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay.
Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right not to be tortured to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil? -- modified at 12:02 Friday 22nd September, 2006
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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Red Stateler wrote:
the Democratic leadership admitted that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs
Red Stateler wrote:
Let's rewind a couple of posts
You're right. I should have said: Nowhere in either article do Democrats admit that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs.
Red Stateler wrote:
That's incongruous with their platform of extending constitutional rights to terrorists in Guantanamo Bay.
Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right not to be tortured to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil? -- modified at 12:02 Friday 22nd September, 2006
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
You're right. I should have said: Nowhere in either article do Democrats admit that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs.
Politicians never say anything outright. He did say that such criticism is restricted to Americans (namely him). So even though he might not have specifically admitted his criticisms are inline with Chavez's, he did state that he and not chavez has a sole right to criticize the president in the way that Chavez did. Combine that with the fact that Rangel has specifically critizied Bush in similar ways in the past (and calling Bush "evil" is the left's favorite pastime) and...
dennisd45 wrote:
Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right not to be tortured to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil?
I'm not referring to torture, but their desire to have terrorists face trial rather than remain POW's. It's well established that there isn't and has never been torture at guantanamo.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Red Stateler wrote:
Rationalization is defense.
Wrong. Rationalization is used to seek an understanding of the possible reasons behind an act. It does not defend the act or the person performing it; it only looks at why it could have been done. And that's a good thing. It's a lot easier to dismiss the act as wrong and the actor as irrational for doing it (especially when it's someone we don't like).
Red Stateler wrote:
It's intent is to come up with a valid and excusable reason for an act.
It's intent is to understand what could have caused the act.
If [God] knows what we are going to do then we have no free will and are just characters in a play written by him. Without free will, morality for humans makes no sense. Without free will and morality, any sort of punishment or reward system loses any justification. Heaven and hell would be places where [God] could watch the souls he created, predestined just for eternal happiness or agony. - Mark Thomas
Alvaro Mendez wrote:
Wrong. Rationalization is used to seek an understanding of the possible reasons behind an act. It does not defend the act or the person performing it; it only looks at why it could have been done. And that's a good thing. It's a lot easier to dismiss the act as wrong and the actor as irrational for doing it (especially when it's someone we don't like).
Rationalization[^] doesn't "seek" understanding. It creates it were none is otherwise deserved: 1. to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes. 2. to remove unreasonable elements from. 3. to make rational or conformable to reason.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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dennisd45 wrote:
You're right. I should have said: Nowhere in either article do Democrats admit that Chavez's comments were inline with theirs.
Politicians never say anything outright. He did say that such criticism is restricted to Americans (namely him). So even though he might not have specifically admitted his criticisms are inline with Chavez's, he did state that he and not chavez has a sole right to criticize the president in the way that Chavez did. Combine that with the fact that Rangel has specifically critizied Bush in similar ways in the past (and calling Bush "evil" is the left's favorite pastime) and...
dennisd45 wrote:
Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right not to be tortured to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil?
I'm not referring to torture, but their desire to have terrorists face trial rather than remain POW's. It's well established that there isn't and has never been torture at guantanamo.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
not have specifically admitted his criticisms are inline with Chavez's
Exactly. Your assertion is false. Anything else is you making assumptions.
Red Stateler wrote:
I'm not referring to torture, but their desire to have terrorists face trial rather than remain POW's
I don't see why trials are a problem. It would not be right to keep people in prison for 20 years without some sort of determination for why. So, let me rephrase: Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right to a trial to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil?
Red Stateler wrote:
It's well established that there isn't and has never been torture at guantanamo.
I think not: US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo [^]
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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Red Stateler wrote:
not have specifically admitted his criticisms are inline with Chavez's
Exactly. Your assertion is false. Anything else is you making assumptions.
Red Stateler wrote:
I'm not referring to torture, but their desire to have terrorists face trial rather than remain POW's
I don't see why trials are a problem. It would not be right to keep people in prison for 20 years without some sort of determination for why. So, let me rephrase: Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right to a trial to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil?
Red Stateler wrote:
It's well established that there isn't and has never been torture at guantanamo.
I think not: US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo [^]
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
Exactly. Your assertion is false. Anything else is you making assumptions.
Ummmm...No. As Rangler said, only he can make the statements that Chavez did. And he has made similar statements in the past. My assertion twofold...That the Democratic leadership admitted their statements were inline with Chavez and that they are entitled to make such vitriolic remarks, but Chavez is not. The first part is open to interpretation, the second part is not.
dennisd45 wrote:
Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right to a trial to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil?
The criticism of Chavez is not the point. It's the remark that Chavez is not entitled to make such remarks. In other words, Rangler believes that Chavez does not have 1st amendment protections (even though he is pretty innocuous at this point) but he does believe that violent and dangerous terrorists do have constitutional rights. That is a specifically anti-American/ pro-Democrat stance.
dennisd45 wrote:
I think not: US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo [^]
That report turned out to be false and the Red Cross has even stated that no torture has gone on there. Of course, if you define "torture" as "being scared of dogs" or "indefinite detention" or "not provided with low-fat Stabucks mochas", then yes...They obviously were tortured.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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dennisd45 wrote:
Exactly. Your assertion is false. Anything else is you making assumptions.
Ummmm...No. As Rangler said, only he can make the statements that Chavez did. And he has made similar statements in the past. My assertion twofold...That the Democratic leadership admitted their statements were inline with Chavez and that they are entitled to make such vitriolic remarks, but Chavez is not. The first part is open to interpretation, the second part is not.
dennisd45 wrote:
Bizarre juxtaposition. If we extend the right to a trial to prisoners, we can't criticize a foreign leader for calling Bush the devil?
The criticism of Chavez is not the point. It's the remark that Chavez is not entitled to make such remarks. In other words, Rangler believes that Chavez does not have 1st amendment protections (even though he is pretty innocuous at this point) but he does believe that violent and dangerous terrorists do have constitutional rights. That is a specifically anti-American/ pro-Democrat stance.
dennisd45 wrote:
I think not: US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo [^]
That report turned out to be false and the Red Cross has even stated that no torture has gone on there. Of course, if you define "torture" as "being scared of dogs" or "indefinite detention" or "not provided with low-fat Stabucks mochas", then yes...They obviously were tortured.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
The first part is open to interpretation
As I have been saying. You are wrong.
Red Stateler wrote:
but Chavez is not{entitled]
I would have to agree. As a guest he is not entitled. And what does this have to do with Constitutional rights?
Red Stateler wrote:
Chavez is not entitled to make such remarks. In other words, Rangler believes that Chavez does not have 1st amendment protections
Everything after "in other words" is wrong. Saying one is not entitled to make the remarks is not equivalent to saying there is not 1st amendment protection to make them anyway.
Red Stateler wrote:
but he does believe that violent and dangerous terrorists do have constitutional rights.
US citizens, even " violent and dangerous terrorists", do have constitutional rights. Foreign nationals do have protections under the Geneva Convention and US military rules. Maybe even constitutional rights, I am unfamiliar with the law on this.
Red Stateler wrote:
That is a specifically anti-American/ pro-Democrat stance.
Remaining true to American ideals under times of stress is anti-American. Another bizarre statement.
Red Stateler wrote:
Red Cross has even stated that no torture has gone on there.
Untrue. Found several articles where the Red Cross described abuses there as torture.
Red Stateler wrote:
Of course, if you define "torture" as "being scared of dogs" or "indefinite detention" or "not provided with low-fat Stabucks mochas",
If you define torture only as the rack, drawing and quartering, and flaying alive, then yes, there was no torture.:rolleyes:
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison