Minimum Wage
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Wow...It sure does choke the left up to see that I'm not bitter at all and that I actually endorse Democracy. That's probably the 3rd time I've been called "bitter" for criticising leftist ideology since (something I consistently do) since the election. This is how it works... Me: Not bitter when my ideology wins or loses because I'm pro-Democracy and believe the country rightly gets what it votes for. Leftists: Bitter (and contentious) when their ideology loses but happy when it wins because they disregard Democracy and believe that their way should win regardless of the will of the people.
Red Stateler wrote:
Leftists: Bitter (and contentious) when their ideology loses but happy when it wins because they disregard Democracy and believe that their way should win regardless of the will of the people.
BTW this seems very much like the opinion held by the US administration when the election in the Palastine area didn't give the government hoped for by Bush & Co.
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Cmon, you're smarter than that
No, he's really not.
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I actually appreciate your sentiment, although not agreeing 100%, and I think a minimum wage is a pretty good idea in the US. AFAIK the US job market works very differently from many other countries meaning that a minimum wage is needed as not to drive a lot of people into poverty. For instance many countries, which I'm sure you would label as socialistic or whatever, like Sweden, Finland and my own country, Denmark, has no minimum wages! Instead all labor related issues are agreed upon by unions and employer groups. And to be honest I think it works pretty sweet. -- modified at 11:59 Thursday 9th November, 2006
Rohde wrote:
AFAIK the US job market works very different from many other countries meaning that a minimum wage is needed as not to drive a lot of people into poverty. For instance many countries, which I'm sure you would label as socialistic or whatever, like Sweden, Finland and my own country, Denmark, has no minimum wages, instead all labor related issues are agreed upon by unions and employer groups. And to be honest I think it works pretty sweet.
:confused: Canada is more socialist than the US and there is a minimum wage. There is also a minimum wage in Switzerland...
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Wow...It sure does choke the left up to see that I'm not bitter at all and that I actually endorse Democracy. That's probably the 3rd time I've been called "bitter" for criticising leftist ideology since (something I consistently do) since the election. This is how it works... Me: Not bitter when my ideology wins or loses because I'm pro-Democracy and believe the country rightly gets what it votes for. Leftists: Bitter (and contentious) when their ideology loses but happy when it wins because they disregard Democracy and believe that their way should win regardless of the will of the people.
Red Stateler wrote:
Not bitter when my ideology wins or loses because I'm pro-Democracy and believe the country rightly gets what it votes for.
You're a better man than me, I'd throw democracy out in a heart beat to be shed of these leftist bastards - just as they do to be shed of us. Its time to start playing the game the way they like to play it, by their rules and damn the consequencies.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Leftists: Bitter (and contentious) when their ideology loses but happy when it wins because they disregard Democracy and believe that their way should win regardless of the will of the people.
BTW this seems very much like the opinion held by the US administration when the election in the Palastine area didn't give the government hoped for by Bush & Co.
Rohde wrote:
BTW this seems very much like the opinion held by the US administration when the election in the Palastine area didn't give the government hoped for by Bush & Co.
Are you saying that the US doesn't appreciate democracy? Tell me, can you print cartoons in Denmark yet, or are they still oppressing your free speech?
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bwhittington wrote:
why is raising minimum wage is good
Because the closer it gets the the average income, the closer you are to the socialist ideal. It's as simple as that.
Red Stateler wrote:
It's as simple as that.
No, you're as simple as that.
"When your argument falls apart...resort to name-calling."
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the SoapboxWhereas "liberal" is just a moron.
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the Soapboxtypical left-wing pseudo-intellectual crackpot
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the SoapboxYour logic is really really bad.
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the SoapboxI'm kind of incoherent today.
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the Soapboxled mike
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No, he's really not.
Damn you stole my line!
"When your argument falls apart...resort to name-calling."
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the SoapboxWhereas "liberal" is just a moron.
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the Soapboxtypical left-wing pseudo-intellectual crackpot
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the SoapboxYour logic is really really bad.
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the SoapboxI'm kind of incoherent today.
Red Stateler aka (D)espeir in the Soapboxled mike
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Rohde wrote:
AFAIK the US job market works very different from many other countries meaning that a minimum wage is needed as not to drive a lot of people into poverty. For instance many countries, which I'm sure you would label as socialistic or whatever, like Sweden, Finland and my own country, Denmark, has no minimum wages, instead all labor related issues are agreed upon by unions and employer groups. And to be honest I think it works pretty sweet.
:confused: Canada is more socialist than the US and there is a minimum wage. There is also a minimum wage in Switzerland...
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Wow...It sure does choke the left up to see that I'm not bitter at all and that I actually endorse Democracy. That's probably the 3rd time I've been called "bitter" for criticising leftist ideology since (something I consistently do) since the election. This is how it works... Me: Not bitter when my ideology wins or loses because I'm pro-Democracy and believe the country rightly gets what it votes for. Leftists: Bitter (and contentious) when their ideology loses but happy when it wins because they disregard Democracy and believe that their way should win regardless of the will of the people.
Red Stateler wrote:
Me: Not bitter when my ideology wins or loses because I'm pro-Democracy and believe the country rightly gets what it votes for.
Good for you. As Stan says "you are a better man than him" so at least you have that going for you. :-D
"Christianity is not about tolerance"
Stan Shannon in the Soap BoxThats because you're a f****ing leftist idiot.
Stan Shannon in the Soapboxled mike
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Yes, and? I'm simply saying a minimum wage isn't the only way to achieve the goal of not driving a huge group of people into poverty, and it's probably not the bets way either IMO.
But they're all paths to the same goal...a complete elimination of economic disparity between individuals.
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Yes, and? I'm simply saying a minimum wage isn't the only way to achieve the goal of not driving a huge group of people into poverty, and it's probably not the bets way either IMO.
I thought you were suggesting socialist countries didn't have minimum wage. Now I see you were not.
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Rohde wrote:
BTW this seems very much like the opinion held by the US administration when the election in the Palastine area didn't give the government hoped for by Bush & Co.
Are you saying that the US doesn't appreciate democracy? Tell me, can you print cartoons in Denmark yet, or are they still oppressing your free speech?
All I'm saying is that Red's argumentation is simplistic at best. The US administration was very much not happy by the outcome of the Palistinian election - actually they pretty much reacted as Red's caricature of "the leftist monster". This also goes to a certain degree for the EU as well.
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All I'm saying is that Red's argumentation is simplistic at best. The US administration was very much not happy by the outcome of the Palistinian election - actually they pretty much reacted as Red's caricature of "the leftist monster". This also goes to a certain degree for the EU as well.
Rohde wrote:
All I'm saying is that Red's argumentation is simplistic at best. The US administration was very much not happy by the outcome of the Palistinian election - actually they pretty much reacted as Red's caricature of "the leftist monster". This also goes to a certain degree for the EU as well.
It wasn't just the US that reacted to the elections in Palestine. Many countries withdrew funding and for good reason. The current government in Palestine wants to destroy Isreal. The withdrawing of the funding was not so much acting against the democratic elections, but rather a protest of the violent ideology that Hamas promotes.
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All I'm saying is that Red's argumentation is simplistic at best. The US administration was very much not happy by the outcome of the Palistinian election - actually they pretty much reacted as Red's caricature of "the leftist monster". This also goes to a certain degree for the EU as well.
And did the US go in and overthrow that Democracy? No, it didn't. Just because the collective opinion of a group of people is at odds with our own does not mean we implicitely oppose Democracy. It means that we oppose terrorist groups whether elected or not. Ironically, you're the one who has been critical of our elected officials (even though you don't live here) while endorsing such things as war crime tribunals for them. That's hardly pro-Democratic, now is it?
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But they're all paths to the same goal...a complete elimination of economic disparity between individuals.
Well, I neither believe nor like the idea of a society of "the averages" as it seems from time to time the "pure socialists" want (I'm quoting pure socialists here because relative to my domestic political scene I don't consider myself socialist, but relative to the US scene I probably would be considered as such, or at least a right-leaning democrat). On the other hand I do believe it'll be too expensive for a society in the long rung to simply let the capitalistic market run it all. A balance is needed I feel.
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Cmon, you're smarter than that
He's not. Anything that has a close resemblance to improving the poor people lifestyle is socialism to him.
-------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Red Stateler wrote:
Not bitter when my ideology wins or loses because I'm pro-Democracy and believe the country rightly gets what it votes for.
You're a better man than me, I'd throw democracy out in a heart beat to be shed of these leftist bastards - just as they do to be shed of us. Its time to start playing the game the way they like to play it, by their rules and damn the consequencies.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're a better man than me, I'd throw democracy out in a heart beat to be shed of these leftist bastards
Not me. I firmly believe that people are capable of governing themselves, but part of that governance requires a deeper understanding of the consequences of ideologies and therefore honest debate. Conservatism has already largely prevailed. My primary concern has always been the fact that we lived in the midst of a constitutional crisis that was largely ignored by the public and actively endorsed by the left. Namely, judicial activism derived from the notion that the constitution is flexible and that law is arbitrary. The single most important task of the president was to purge the supreme court of that sort of thinking and he successfully did that. Yes, I disagree with leftist laws (especially since they're often unconstitutional), but I don't go berzerk when they win now and then. I do, however, go berzerk when they exploit the legal system in order to legislate laws that didn't originate from a legislature. That it downright tyrannous. I believe the only thing left for conservatives (besides finalizing a judicial cleanup) is to break up the education system's left-ideological monopoly which pumps out brainwashed leftists by the boatload.
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And did the US go in and overthrow that Democracy? No, it didn't. Just because the collective opinion of a group of people is at odds with our own does not mean we implicitely oppose Democracy. It means that we oppose terrorist groups whether elected or not. Ironically, you're the one who has been critical of our elected officials (even though you don't live here) while endorsing such things as war crime tribunals for them. That's hardly pro-Democratic, now is it?
My point was only to show that your characterization of the "leftist" is ridiculous and futile. It doesn't mean I like or have anything positive thing to say about the Palestinian government. Of course I'm critical of some of your elected officials - so are you. And I think I'm entitled to have an opinion given that US is a super power and it's politics have huge consequences for a big part of the world, and given that my own country has soldiers in Afghanistan an Iraq (our prime minister is very glad for Bush to say the least). I think the endorsing war crime tribunals part is pretty exaggerating what I said. It's right I said something to that extent on the Saddam issue, but of course I'll let the US democracy decide upon that. But honestly I'm very suspicious of Bush and his croonies, and I would like a thorough investigation of it all.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Me: Not bitter when my ideology wins or loses because I'm pro-Democracy and believe the country rightly gets what it votes for.
Good for you. As Stan says "you are a better man than him" so at least you have that going for you. :-D
"Christianity is not about tolerance"
Stan Shannon in the Soap BoxThats because you're a f****ing leftist idiot.
Stan Shannon in the Soapboxled mike
Apparently I'm a better man than you, since you discounted our democratic government when Democrats had no power and now seem oddly content with it.
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He's not. Anything that has a close resemblance to improving the poor people lifestyle is socialism to him.
-------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
When that "anything" involves government redistribution of wealth...yes.