Minimum Wage
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How tediously repetitive.
And deliciously shiney!
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Red Stateler wrote:
Be honest.
I'm serious. "Democracy is the worst form of government accept for all the others that have been tried". No reason to disbelieve that just because we have changed out some of the individuals. We still have a government that is bought and paid for by Corporate Lobbyists. We had like 6 more states that eroded freedom by outlawing gay marriage. We had how many people vote Democrat because of the war in Iraq that was started by the President those same people voted into office. Marijuana is still illegal while one states most controversial question was whether or not alcohol could be sold in grocery stores. I could go on and on but that wouldn't get us anywhere.
led mike
Oh, so you are in fact against Democracy whether or not Democrats or Republicans are in power so long as that democracy constradicts your own interests. I guess I underestimated you.
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So, your willing to throw out democracy to 'win'. If your willing to become the 'evil whore' to beat the 'evil whore', what exactly have you won?
oilFactotum wrote:
what exactly have you won?
There is nothing left to win. My own political ideals may be a lost cause, but at least I can help prevent the Marxist from achieving theirs.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Red Stateler wrote:
So you're saying there's not another place in Canada that would hire someone with poor vision?
No, I'm saying he was unable to find other employement in the area we lived that was accessable by public transportation. And, economics being what they are, he couldn't save enough money to be able to move elsewhere to look for a job. He survived on the wage he made; he didn't thrive.
So why didn't you help him out and drive him to another job each day?
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Being from Canada, which has a minimum wage, please allow me the opportunity to get a real-life example of how raising the minimum wage can be helpful. My brother was born with a pinched optic nerve, the results of which is, he cannot drive and must rely on public transportation to get to and from work. Since he did not want to 'live off of the system' and had a desire to work, he was able to find employment through a friend at a hardware store... his vision was good enough to see items, help customers, run the till, etc., and, because it did not require a lot of reading, he could keep pace with the other employees. Since this was a small business, privately owned, he was at the whim of the owner in terms of compensation. The owner's stated policies on getting a wage increase was: when you get married or have a child. Since he did not marry, he was at the same wage (barely above minimum) for 9 years... would any of us like to not get a wage increase for 9 years? Yes, capitalistic society claims "you can always get another job", but, what if you can't and the reasons are beyond your control? Raising the minimum wage was the only way for him to get a wage increase. Or, should he have resigned himself to collecting social assistance? Just my thoughts... Tim
So everyone must suffer economically just so that your brother can recieve welfare without it being called welfare? He is just as much 'living off the system' within a system of minimum wage as he would be if he were recieving some sort of social welfare. It is just disguised to make everyone feel all warm and fuzzy. In other words, it is yet another leftist lie.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Red Stateler wrote:
the education system's left-ideological monopoly which pumps out brainwashed leftists by the boatload.
It has been a few years since I was in school but I had no shortage of conservative professors. Not Social Conservatives, real ones.
led mike
Wow. You must be REALLY liberal!
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Oh, so you are in fact against Democracy whether or not Democrats or Republicans are in power so long as that democracy constradicts your own interests. I guess I underestimated you.
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Kind of like how you consistenyl trip over your "beliefs" and contradict yourself.
Red Stateler wrote:
Kind of like how you consistenyl trip over your "beliefs" and contradict yourself.
Kind of like how you consistently make clueless accusations without any supporting evidence.
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Wow. You must be REALLY liberal!
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So why didn't you help him out and drive him to another job each day?
Red Stateler wrote:
So why didn't you help him out and drive him to another job each day?
Hmmm... let's see... I didn't have a car at the time, so I couldn't drive him. And when I did have a car, I was working in another city 300 miles away. Oh, and before you ask, I was not making enough of a wage myself to support him while he looked for another job.
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Red Stateler wrote:
so long as that democracy constradicts your own interests.
If you mean Corruption and the violation of the founding principles of the country and the charter for the government? Then yes.
led mike
What do the following have to do with "corruption" or "founding principles"? -We had like 6 more states that eroded freedom by outlawing gay marriage. -We had how many people vote Democrat because of the war in Iraq that was started by the President those same people voted into office. -Marijuana is still illegal while one states most controversial question was whether or not alcohol could be sold in grocery stores. That's a list of reasonable conclusions made by the public that you personally object to and therefore believe they should be overriden by your own whimsy.
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So everyone must suffer economically just so that your brother can recieve welfare without it being called welfare? He is just as much 'living off the system' within a system of minimum wage as he would be if he were recieving some sort of social welfare. It is just disguised to make everyone feel all warm and fuzzy. In other words, it is yet another leftist lie.
Thank God for disproportional force.
You're absolutely right, Stan, I decided that 30,000,000 other people should be screwed economically just so my brother could benefit from making an extra $0.50 an hour... And, you always buy only products made entirely in the USA at certified non-sweat shops that employ only fully qualified people (meanly non-illegal immigrants). And that includes computer products, utensils, gasoline, automobiles, etc... Or are you screwing the rest of the world by using these products? Come clean, now...
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Red Stateler wrote:
So why didn't you help him out and drive him to another job each day?
Hmmm... let's see... I didn't have a car at the time, so I couldn't drive him. And when I did have a car, I was working in another city 300 miles away. Oh, and before you ask, I was not making enough of a wage myself to support him while he looked for another job.
And in this city 300 miles away, there were no jobs that he could have possibly taken?
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And in this city 300 miles away, there were no jobs that he could have possibly taken?
Did you read the ENTIRE message? Let me quote myself...
Tim Carmichael wrote:
Oh, and before you ask, I was not making enough of a wage myself to support him while he looked for another job.
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What do the following have to do with "corruption" or "founding principles"? -We had like 6 more states that eroded freedom by outlawing gay marriage. -We had how many people vote Democrat because of the war in Iraq that was started by the President those same people voted into office. -Marijuana is still illegal while one states most controversial question was whether or not alcohol could be sold in grocery stores. That's a list of reasonable conclusions made by the public that you personally object to and therefore believe they should be overriden by your own whimsy.
Red Stateler wrote:
What do the following have to do with "corruption" or "founding principles"?
the one with "freedom" speaks to founding principles the others do not. They merely indicate peoples inability to govern themselves which of course we must do to be free. So it is a Catch-22. Of course you left out the one about corruption.
Red Stateler wrote:
by your own whimsy.
I don't do whimsy :rolleyes:
led mike
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Red Stateler wrote:
What do the following have to do with "corruption" or "founding principles"?
the one with "freedom" speaks to founding principles the others do not. They merely indicate peoples inability to govern themselves which of course we must do to be free. So it is a Catch-22. Of course you left out the one about corruption.
Red Stateler wrote:
by your own whimsy.
I don't do whimsy :rolleyes:
led mike
led mike wrote:
the one with "freedom" speaks to founding principles the others do not.
That's pretty stupid considering gay marriage wasn't legal at the time of our founding. It also happens to be an example of the endorsement of judicial activism, since in the couple of cases where gay marriage was legalized, it was done so by liberal judiciaries and not through the legislative process. You can't get more against founding principles than that, especially considering Jefferson didn't trust the judiciary for this very reason.
led mike wrote:
They merely indicate peoples inability to govern themselves which of course we must do to be free. So it is a Catch-22. Of course you left out the one about corruption.
This goes back to my assertion that leftist ideology, which springs forth from atheism, fancies itself implicitely superior to opposing ideologies and believes that it deserves a special unquestionable and ultimately depostic place in our society. Americans, through conservative self-governance, turned this country from a handful of colonies to a hyper-power in the course of only 200 years. Naturally, since the success doesn't mirror your leftist ideals, you consider that a failure. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in Cuba?
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Did you read the ENTIRE message? Let me quote myself...
Tim Carmichael wrote:
Oh, and before you ask, I was not making enough of a wage myself to support him while he looked for another job.
I didn't say or suggest to support him, did I? I asked if there was a job in the city you lived in as in one he could take so that he could support himself and you could help him get started by driving him to work. Basically what I'm getting at is that you want the government (i.e. others) to support him while you were unwilling.
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You're absolutely right, Stan, I decided that 30,000,000 other people should be screwed economically just so my brother could benefit from making an extra $0.50 an hour... And, you always buy only products made entirely in the USA at certified non-sweat shops that employ only fully qualified people (meanly non-illegal immigrants). And that includes computer products, utensils, gasoline, automobiles, etc... Or are you screwing the rest of the world by using these products? Come clean, now...
Tim Carmichael wrote:
You're absolutely right
Yeah, I know.
Tim Carmichael wrote:
And, you always buy only products made entirely in the USA at certified non-sweat shops that employ only fully qualified people (meanly non-illegal immigrants). And that includes computer products, utensils, gasoline, automobiles, etc... Or are you screwing the rest of the world by using these products?
I buy products according to my own economic self interest. If a high quality American product is available for a reasonable price, I buy it. Otherwise, I buy an imported product. By doing that I am not screwing anyone - I'm giving them a job, a real job, not a job invented merely to justify another branch of government.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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This will definitely show my ignorance but why is raising minimum wage is good or bad? Why do we have it at all? Ohio just passed a law that is raising the minimum wage from $5.15 to $6.85, an overall raise of 70 cents. Will the costs of buying goods and services in my state really go up substantially to pay for this increase? I am concerned about what this might mean for people who have worked for several years to get above minimum wage or have jobs that pay more than minimum and now all base level employees and new hires have effectively gotten raise that they do not deserve. Wouldn't a raise in minimum also affect others way above the minimum wage? I certainly won't be getting a raise because of this. If costs of buying goods and services goes up enough, the minimum wage will account for nothing and it would also hurt me in that it now costs me more to maintain my lifestyle. {Modified) I would like to add that I did not vote anything on this proposal simply because I didn't quite understand what it would mean.
Brett A. Whittington Application Developer
bwhittington wrote:
Will the costs of buying goods and services in my state really go up substantially to pay for this increase?
Or will the person working 35 hours per week benefit from the extra $12-13?
bwhittington wrote:
If costs of buying goods and services goes up enough, the minimum wage will account for nothing...
Yep, I've argued this all along. When an employee gets a pay raise to be able to afford costlier goods, the employer must raise the cost of his goods to cover the higher expense. The employee/consumer must now ask for another raise to cover the cost of the goods. This is a never-ending, vicious cycle. We will eventually see this bubble burst as there's no way it can sustain itself forever.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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led mike wrote:
the one with "freedom" speaks to founding principles the others do not.
That's pretty stupid considering gay marriage wasn't legal at the time of our founding. It also happens to be an example of the endorsement of judicial activism, since in the couple of cases where gay marriage was legalized, it was done so by liberal judiciaries and not through the legislative process. You can't get more against founding principles than that, especially considering Jefferson didn't trust the judiciary for this very reason.
led mike wrote:
They merely indicate peoples inability to govern themselves which of course we must do to be free. So it is a Catch-22. Of course you left out the one about corruption.
This goes back to my assertion that leftist ideology, which springs forth from atheism, fancies itself implicitely superior to opposing ideologies and believes that it deserves a special unquestionable and ultimately depostic place in our society. Americans, through conservative self-governance, turned this country from a handful of colonies to a hyper-power in the course of only 200 years. Naturally, since the success doesn't mirror your leftist ideals, you consider that a failure. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in Cuba?
Red Stateler wrote:
ideology
It's not an ideology that people that elected Bush are now disatisfied with what he has done. But don't let me stop you from typing up more good looking academic sounding tripe that has nothing to do with anything.
Red Stateler wrote:
That's pretty stupid considering gay marriage wasn't legal at the time of our founding.
It wasn't? You have evidence of that?
Red Stateler wrote:
You can't get more against founding principles than that
Time for a history lesson
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among MenFirst Equality, then "Liberty" (Freedom), then "to secure these rights" we form a Government. The Two highest priorites for Government is to secure equality and freedom. Period.
Red Stateler wrote:
especially considering Jefferson didn't trust the judiciary for this very reason.
Really? Well he signed his name to this...
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
Red Stateler wrote:
fancies itself implicitely superior to opposing ideologies and believes that it deserves a special unquestionable and ultimately depostic place in our society.
That is 100% completely accurate discription.... for the right-wing religious fanatics. :laugh::laugh: You were right, you are funny.
led mike