An inhabited island has disappeared
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Rising seas, caused by global warming, have for the first time washed an inhabited island off the face of the Earth. The obliteration of Lohachara island, in India's part of the Sundarbans where the Ganges and the Brahmaputra rivers empty into the Bay of Bengal, marks the moment when one of the most apocalyptic predictions of environmentalists and climate scientists has started coming true
http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2099971.ece[^] I don't need to worry though, I live at least a 1000kms from sea (though the Ganges is 10kms from my home). -- modified at 2:58 Tuesday 26th December, 2006 clickable link
The big question is, how much of this was a natural event, and how much was it caused by man ? If the latter, how much by global events, and how much by actions local to the area ? These are the questions that people seems scared to ask, and without them, this is more meaningless news, that is, news without any context from which meaning can be derived.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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The big question is, how much of this was a natural event, and how much was it caused by man ? If the latter, how much by global events, and how much by actions local to the area ? These are the questions that people seems scared to ask, and without them, this is more meaningless news, that is, news without any context from which meaning can be derived.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
The big question is, how much of this was a natural event, and how much was it caused by man ?
Let me rephrase that question: Would changing our behavior help?
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The big question is, how much of this was a natural event, and how much was it caused by man ? If the latter, how much by global events, and how much by actions local to the area ? These are the questions that people seems scared to ask, and without them, this is more meaningless news, that is, news without any context from which meaning can be derived.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
link[^] They conveniently decided to leave out the details...Like that the ocean has risen a few centimeters since "global warming" is purported to have begun (and it has risen much more than that in the preceding decades). So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island? Well that's not really important...
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link[^] They conveniently decided to leave out the details...Like that the ocean has risen a few centimeters since "global warming" is purported to have begun (and it has risen much more than that in the preceding decades). So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island? Well that's not really important...
Red Stateler wrote:
So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island?
:doh: That is a stupid question.
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Red Stateler wrote:
So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island?
:doh: That is a stupid question.
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Linkify!|Fold With Us!:rolleyes: One I'm sure you have a perfectly suitable answer for? After all, I'm sure that there are no waves that are more than 4 inches high, right? Oh wait...This is supposed to be science and you can't question your dogma. Sorry.
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:rolleyes: One I'm sure you have a perfectly suitable answer for? After all, I'm sure that there are no waves that are more than 4 inches high, right? Oh wait...This is supposed to be science and you can't question your dogma. Sorry.
Red Stateler wrote:
all, I'm sure that there are no waves that are more than 4 inches high, right?
Oh, you made it this far. next step: read about waves.
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Red Stateler wrote:
all, I'm sure that there are no waves that are more than 4 inches high, right?
Oh, you made it this far. next step: read about waves.
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Linkify!|Fold With Us!So then I guess you won't be explaining how a 4 inch rise in sea levels over 40 years (we'll ignore the fact that they rose another 5 inches the previous 50 years for now) could actually single-handedly sink an entire island?
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So then I guess you won't be explaining how a 4 inch rise in sea levels over 40 years (we'll ignore the fact that they rose another 5 inches the previous 50 years for now) could actually single-handedly sink an entire island?
For the obviosu stuff, you should ask a 4 year old kid.
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For the obviosu stuff, you should ask a 4 year old kid.
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Linkify!|Fold With Us!I feel like I am...
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link[^] They conveniently decided to leave out the details...Like that the ocean has risen a few centimeters since "global warming" is purported to have begun (and it has risen much more than that in the preceding decades). So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island? Well that's not really important...
Red Stateler wrote:
So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island?
the difference in sea level can be as much as 15m, so the land might not to submerged totally all the time, but it would be uninhabitable if it is covered at high tide. for most low lying regions, there are thresholds that would keep the sea water out. as soon as the higher waves at high tide starts reaching a place, it is lost. it is only for sometime walls and barrages will stop the sea, once they are breached, the island will be lost quite suddenly. by your logic, if 4ins is not sufficient to wipe out an island, even 15m should not be sufficient(wave can be very high during bad weather). did you hear about "slow and steady wins the race?" During the tsumani that hit south Asia 2 years ago, some islands got submerged when the sea got rough, however the water never receded later on. I am not saying that it happened because you used your car, just that things are changing. if you could manage to pile up some ice at the poles and mountain peaks, it might help.
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Red Stateler wrote:
So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island?
the difference in sea level can be as much as 15m, so the land might not to submerged totally all the time, but it would be uninhabitable if it is covered at high tide. for most low lying regions, there are thresholds that would keep the sea water out. as soon as the higher waves at high tide starts reaching a place, it is lost. it is only for sometime walls and barrages will stop the sea, once they are breached, the island will be lost quite suddenly. by your logic, if 4ins is not sufficient to wipe out an island, even 15m should not be sufficient(wave can be very high during bad weather). did you hear about "slow and steady wins the race?" During the tsumani that hit south Asia 2 years ago, some islands got submerged when the sea got rough, however the water never receded later on. I am not saying that it happened because you used your car, just that things are changing. if you could manage to pile up some ice at the poles and mountain peaks, it might help.
Well something i was wondering. If water expands when it freezes + 90% of an ice berg is underwater. I AM NO EXPERT. But with the size of the polar icecaps could an increase of ice also cause the rise of the water level of the ocean? According to the pro's i am wrong (I have no claim to be right), but it possible. That was my 2cents
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I? -
Red Stateler wrote:
So how can a 4-inch rise in water levels over 40 years completely and suddenly wipe out an entire island?
the difference in sea level can be as much as 15m, so the land might not to submerged totally all the time, but it would be uninhabitable if it is covered at high tide. for most low lying regions, there are thresholds that would keep the sea water out. as soon as the higher waves at high tide starts reaching a place, it is lost. it is only for sometime walls and barrages will stop the sea, once they are breached, the island will be lost quite suddenly. by your logic, if 4ins is not sufficient to wipe out an island, even 15m should not be sufficient(wave can be very high during bad weather). did you hear about "slow and steady wins the race?" During the tsumani that hit south Asia 2 years ago, some islands got submerged when the sea got rough, however the water never receded later on. I am not saying that it happened because you used your car, just that things are changing. if you could manage to pile up some ice at the poles and mountain peaks, it might help.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
the difference in sea level can be as much as 15m
ummmm...What[^]? Sea level doesn't differ between areas. It's an average of the overall sea level. 4 inches is nothing compared to the 2.5 foot constant rising and lowering tides. Islands come and go all the time. To say that an island was wiped away because of a 4 inch rise in sea levels (keep in mind that this is consistent with pre-"global warming" sea rising) is...well...ludicrous.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
by your logic, if 4ins is not sufficient to wipe out an island, even 15m should not be sufficient(wave can be very high during bad weather).
Ummmmm...What? Many islands don't even rise 15m above sea level at their highest point. That's like saying that if you claim that lighting a match won't destroy a city, then that same logic means that neither will a nuclear explosion.
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Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
the difference in sea level can be as much as 15m
ummmm...What[^]? Sea level doesn't differ between areas. It's an average of the overall sea level. 4 inches is nothing compared to the 2.5 foot constant rising and lowering tides. Islands come and go all the time. To say that an island was wiped away because of a 4 inch rise in sea levels (keep in mind that this is consistent with pre-"global warming" sea rising) is...well...ludicrous.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
by your logic, if 4ins is not sufficient to wipe out an island, even 15m should not be sufficient(wave can be very high during bad weather).
Ummmmm...What? Many islands don't even rise 15m above sea level at their highest point. That's like saying that if you claim that lighting a match won't destroy a city, then that same logic means that neither will a nuclear explosion.
Red Stateler wrote:
Sea level doesn't differ between areas. It's an average of the overall sea level.
Oh, that makes sense. It doesn't differ between areas because it is the average of the differences.:rolleyes:
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Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
the difference in sea level can be as much as 15m
ummmm...What[^]? Sea level doesn't differ between areas. It's an average of the overall sea level. 4 inches is nothing compared to the 2.5 foot constant rising and lowering tides. Islands come and go all the time. To say that an island was wiped away because of a 4 inch rise in sea levels (keep in mind that this is consistent with pre-"global warming" sea rising) is...well...ludicrous.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
by your logic, if 4ins is not sufficient to wipe out an island, even 15m should not be sufficient(wave can be very high during bad weather).
Ummmmm...What? Many islands don't even rise 15m above sea level at their highest point. That's like saying that if you claim that lighting a match won't destroy a city, then that same logic means that neither will a nuclear explosion.
ok, so what do you call the level of sea water at a given moment at a given time? That can change by upto 15m for places(at high tides and rough seas). You somewhere in the thread seem to make a point that 4ins was not good enough because waves are more than 4ins high. I am claiming that waves are much higher, and if height of a wave is some metric, 15m would not be sufficient either.
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Well something i was wondering. If water expands when it freezes + 90% of an ice berg is underwater. I AM NO EXPERT. But with the size of the polar icecaps could an increase of ice also cause the rise of the water level of the ocean? According to the pro's i am wrong (I have no claim to be right), but it possible. That was my 2cents
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. ~Sheik Abd-al-Kadir
I can't always be wrong ... or can I?A floating ice block is equivalent to melted water as far as water level is concerned. Volume of water displayed by iceberg == volume of water locked in the block. However, the water that gets blocked over Greenland/Antarctica and in glaciers over high mountains does not contribute to sea level. similarly for ice shelves.
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ok, so what do you call the level of sea water at a given moment at a given time? That can change by upto 15m for places(at high tides and rough seas). You somewhere in the thread seem to make a point that 4ins was not good enough because waves are more than 4ins high. I am claiming that waves are much higher, and if height of a wave is some metric, 15m would not be sufficient either.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
ok, so what do you call the level of sea water at a given moment at a given time?
Not "sea level" since that's a constant at any given time.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
That can change by upto 15m for places(at high tides and rough seas).
Yeah...That's my point. The sea can be rough, it rises and falls with the tides. There are huge waves from time-to-time. And yet this article is claiming that a 4 inch rise over 40 years is (not "might be", mind you) responsible for an island disappearing. Yeah...OK. That's sensationalism at its best.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
You somewhere in the thread seem to make a point that 4ins was not good enough because waves are more than 4ins high. I am claiming that waves are much higher, and if height of a wave is some metric, 15m would not be sufficient either.
I said 4 inches isn't enough to wipe an island off the map. It assumes that the island was originally no higher than 4 inches above high tide at its highest point. It would require that no wave was higher than 4 inches high once high tide came in. It would require that that never received 4 inches of rain. It's just a retarded claim meant to instill fear in those gullible enough to take it at face value. 15 meters is quite different and to assume some lame logical equivalence between a 4 inch wave (more like a wavelet) and a wave 50 feet high (something that can completely engulf a 5-story building) is just nonsensical. My guess is that this tiny island I've never heard of faced the same fate that all islands will eventually face. It simply eroded away.
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Red Stateler wrote:
Sea level doesn't differ between areas. It's an average of the overall sea level.
Oh, that makes sense. It doesn't differ between areas because it is the average of the differences.:rolleyes:
The definition of "sea level" is the average. So no, "sea level" does not change at any given moment in time. *jingle jingle*
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Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
ok, so what do you call the level of sea water at a given moment at a given time?
Not "sea level" since that's a constant at any given time.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
That can change by upto 15m for places(at high tides and rough seas).
Yeah...That's my point. The sea can be rough, it rises and falls with the tides. There are huge waves from time-to-time. And yet this article is claiming that a 4 inch rise over 40 years is (not "might be", mind you) responsible for an island disappearing. Yeah...OK. That's sensationalism at its best.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
You somewhere in the thread seem to make a point that 4ins was not good enough because waves are more than 4ins high. I am claiming that waves are much higher, and if height of a wave is some metric, 15m would not be sufficient either.
I said 4 inches isn't enough to wipe an island off the map. It assumes that the island was originally no higher than 4 inches above high tide at its highest point. It would require that no wave was higher than 4 inches high once high tide came in. It would require that that never received 4 inches of rain. It's just a retarded claim meant to instill fear in those gullible enough to take it at face value. 15 meters is quite different and to assume some lame logical equivalence between a 4 inch wave (more like a wavelet) and a wave 50 feet high (something that can completely engulf a 5-story building) is just nonsensical. My guess is that this tiny island I've never heard of faced the same fate that all islands will eventually face. It simply eroded away.
Red Stateler wrote:
It simply eroded away.
:gasp: It couldn't be! :rolleyes: I'm with you here. I thought a 3" rise in sea level was suppoesd to flood Manhattan or something like that.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
The definition of "sea level" is the average. So no, "sea level" does not change at any given moment in time. *jingle jingle*
jingle jingle yourself, jackass.
Red Stateler wrote:
Sea level doesn't differ between areas. It's an average of the overall sea level.
That statement is still nonsensical BS and my sarcastic response is still appropriate, so here it is again:
oilFactotum wrote:
Oh, that makes sense. It doesn't differ between areas because it is the average of the differences.:rolleyes:
Red Stateler wrote:
The definition of "sea level" is the average
Wrong. That would be the mean sea level. It does vary between areas and it varies at the same location. If you want to talk about the mean sea level, that would be constant, at least for the time frame used to calculate the mean.
Red Stateler wrote:
So no, "sea level" does not change at any given moment in time.
So? You are responding to a different post:
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
ok, so what do you call the level of sea water at a given moment at a given time? That can change by upto 15m for places(at high tides and rough seas).
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jingle jingle yourself, jackass.
Red Stateler wrote:
Sea level doesn't differ between areas. It's an average of the overall sea level.
That statement is still nonsensical BS and my sarcastic response is still appropriate, so here it is again:
oilFactotum wrote:
Oh, that makes sense. It doesn't differ between areas because it is the average of the differences.:rolleyes:
Red Stateler wrote:
The definition of "sea level" is the average
Wrong. That would be the mean sea level. It does vary between areas and it varies at the same location. If you want to talk about the mean sea level, that would be constant, at least for the time frame used to calculate the mean.
Red Stateler wrote:
So no, "sea level" does not change at any given moment in time.
So? You are responding to a different post:
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
ok, so what do you call the level of sea water at a given moment at a given time? That can change by upto 15m for places(at high tides and rough seas).
oilFactotum wrote:
Wrong. That would be the mean sea level. It does vary between areas and it varies at the same location. If you want to talk about the mean sea level, that would be constant, at least for the time frame used to calculate the mean.
Really, genius? sea level[^] the horizontal plane or level corresponding to the surface of the sea at mean level between high and low tide. *jingle jingle*
