Birthdate field on "My Setting"
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It's simply Database 101. For each field in a table, we need add, change, delete, and query capability. These are not "conveniences", but expected essentials, and their lack is not a mere "inconvenience", but negligence. It's wrong; it's broken; it's a bug; it should be fixed; it never should have made it past beta testing. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Or should. And the #1 site in the world for its technology area should be ashamed about it. Ashamed.
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Chris has other things to worry about, like the implementation of a PHP forum.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
Bradml wrote:
Chris has other things to worry about
Perhaps. And there's all that biking, too. But you're missing the point. Basic add, change, and delete capability is something that should be provided at the very start. Oversights like this one - and there are many similar problems with this site - should not have made it (as I said before) past beta testing. No user in his right mind would accept such a thing; do your clients let you get away with work so sloppy? I hope not. "Well, Mr. Businessman, we're sorry you can't update the phone numbers, and when you delete a dependent sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but look how nice those payroll checks look!" Nonsense. We're the users of this program, and we have a right to demand more of our developer. Especially since he claims to be working with the best technologies available.
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Bradml wrote:
Chris has other things to worry about
Perhaps. And there's all that biking, too. But you're missing the point. Basic add, change, and delete capability is something that should be provided at the very start. Oversights like this one - and there are many similar problems with this site - should not have made it (as I said before) past beta testing. No user in his right mind would accept such a thing; do your clients let you get away with work so sloppy? I hope not. "Well, Mr. Businessman, we're sorry you can't update the phone numbers, and when you delete a dependent sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but look how nice those payroll checks look!" Nonsense. We're the users of this program, and we have a right to demand more of our developer. Especially since he claims to be working with the best technologies available.
Yeah, I'm pretty slack. Maybe I'll do some work or something one day.
The Grand Negus wrote:
should not have made it (as I said before) past beta testing
Yes, there are a hundred little things like this but you know what? The site works pretty well in serving its purpose: to allow developers to share source code, post articles, and discuss programming issues as a community. We even offer a money back guarantee that should keep Mr. Businessman happy. So yes we can go back and fix all those little niggly things or we can just move on, as we are doing, with rearchitecting and rewriting everything. And anyway, who said anything about us being past the beta stage? It's just that, unlike Google, we don't actually stick a "beta" tag on everything ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Bradml wrote:
Chris has other things to worry about
Perhaps. And there's all that biking, too. But you're missing the point. Basic add, change, and delete capability is something that should be provided at the very start. Oversights like this one - and there are many similar problems with this site - should not have made it (as I said before) past beta testing. No user in his right mind would accept such a thing; do your clients let you get away with work so sloppy? I hope not. "Well, Mr. Businessman, we're sorry you can't update the phone numbers, and when you delete a dependent sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but look how nice those payroll checks look!" Nonsense. We're the users of this program, and we have a right to demand more of our developer. Especially since he claims to be working with the best technologies available.
CP is due for a bit of a rewrite. Not that it is completely messed up, but it does have a few little bugs. I suspect Chris is working on a new system as we speak. Anyway this is not a corporate site, it is a community site, can you name one that doesn't have bugs? One major factor to any bugs here is the decision to use ASP.net X|
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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Yeah, I'm pretty slack. Maybe I'll do some work or something one day.
The Grand Negus wrote:
should not have made it (as I said before) past beta testing
Yes, there are a hundred little things like this but you know what? The site works pretty well in serving its purpose: to allow developers to share source code, post articles, and discuss programming issues as a community. We even offer a money back guarantee that should keep Mr. Businessman happy. So yes we can go back and fix all those little niggly things or we can just move on, as we are doing, with rearchitecting and rewriting everything. And anyway, who said anything about us being past the beta stage? It's just that, unlike Google, we don't actually stick a "beta" tag on everything ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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CP is due for a bit of a rewrite. Not that it is completely messed up, but it does have a few little bugs. I suspect Chris is working on a new system as we speak. Anyway this is not a corporate site, it is a community site, can you name one that doesn't have bugs? One major factor to any bugs here is the decision to use ASP.net X|
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
Bradml wrote:
Anyway this is not a corporate site, it is a community site, can you name one that doesn't have bugs
It's an attitude thing, Brad. "Good enough is not good enough." Or is it? When an error is pointed out, one can either make excuses for it or, like a man, simply say, "You're right. I'll fix it." End of story.
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Bradml wrote:
Anyway this is not a corporate site, it is a community site, can you name one that doesn't have bugs
It's an attitude thing, Brad. "Good enough is not good enough." Or is it? When an error is pointed out, one can either make excuses for it or, like a man, simply say, "You're right. I'll fix it." End of story.
If it were security flaw then I would expect a fix within 24 hours of discovery. After that, it was a crippling bug that caused the product to be unusable or barely functinal I would expect an update within 24-90 hours from discover. Anything after that is just faffing.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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Bradml wrote:
Anything after that is just faffing.
See, it is an attitude thing. You're fired.
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If it were security flaw then I would expect a fix within 24 hours of discovery. After that, it was a crippling bug that caused the product to be unusable or barely functinal I would expect an update within 24-90 hours from discover. Anything after that is just faffing.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
You're fired.
?
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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If you worked for me, I'd fire you. Bad attitude. Too accepting of mediocracy. Not striving for excellence.
Of course i strive for excellence, but have you ever heard of prioritizing? I know that to provide the best product for my customer I have to delegate my staff appropriately. This means taking the tasks at hand and deciding what is the most important. I am not saying the approach they take here is perfect, but it seems to work well enough for it to be the number one site in the field. Basically all I am saying is, in this instance atleast, relax.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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Of course i strive for excellence, but have you ever heard of prioritizing? I know that to provide the best product for my customer I have to delegate my staff appropriately. This means taking the tasks at hand and deciding what is the most important. I am not saying the approach they take here is perfect, but it seems to work well enough for it to be the number one site in the field. Basically all I am saying is, in this instance atleast, relax.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
Bradml wrote:
Of course i strive for excellence, but have you ever heard of prioritizing?
Yes, I have. I would have fixed the basic add, change, and delete functions before releasing the product. I believe that's the right order. I would have fixed the bugs before going on an extended biking trip. Or at least assigned someone else to do so. I believe that's proper priority. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think so.
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Bradml wrote:
Of course i strive for excellence, but have you ever heard of prioritizing?
Yes, I have. I would have fixed the basic add, change, and delete functions before releasing the product. I believe that's the right order. I would have fixed the bugs before going on an extended biking trip. Or at least assigned someone else to do so. I believe that's proper priority. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't think so.
The bike trip has nothing to do with it, and maybe Chris is just being lazy... By I don't really care that much about this. I am a user, not the coder, so don't question my development methods because I don't care about someone else's mistake.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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The bike trip has nothing to do with it, and maybe Chris is just being lazy... By I don't really care that much about this. I am a user, not the coder, so don't question my development methods because I don't care about someone else's mistake.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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Bradml wrote:
By I don't really care that much about this. I am a user, not the coder, so don't question my development methods because I don't care about someone else's mistake.
See, it is an attitude thing. Are we in a loop here?
I guess so... The statement that you quoted there was mis-interperated i fear. I, as a user of this product, am not worried about the bug. I understand that Chris has a lot to do and you cannot expect him to catch everything. I would like to see it fixed, but there is no rush. As a developer I don't care about a piece of software I have nothing to do with.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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I guess so... The statement that you quoted there was mis-interperated i fear. I, as a user of this product, am not worried about the bug. I understand that Chris has a lot to do and you cannot expect him to catch everything. I would like to see it fixed, but there is no rush. As a developer I don't care about a piece of software I have nothing to do with.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
Bradml wrote:
As a developer I don't care about a piece of software I have nothing to do with.
"No man is an island, entire of itself..." You should care. About everything. We're all in the same boat. People can't get along unless they first agree to objective standards of behavior. And that's all I'm promoting in this thread. Look above. Some guy reported the bug and I said nothing. (It would, of course, be better if there was a "bug forum" so bug reports didn't have to go in the suggestion box, but that suggestion has been made before. And if they haven't got it after seven years, I guess they just don't get it.) I objected to the "work around" suggested in the first reply; I saw this as a very bad thing. "Work arounds" are what allow bugs to persist; without a "work around", there is much more pressure to do the right thing and fix the problem. In short, "striving for excellence" and "work arounds" are incompatible terms. Pick one.
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Bradml wrote:
As a developer I don't care about a piece of software I have nothing to do with.
"No man is an island, entire of itself..." You should care. About everything. We're all in the same boat. People can't get along unless they first agree to objective standards of behavior. And that's all I'm promoting in this thread. Look above. Some guy reported the bug and I said nothing. (It would, of course, be better if there was a "bug forum" so bug reports didn't have to go in the suggestion box, but that suggestion has been made before. And if they haven't got it after seven years, I guess they just don't get it.) I objected to the "work around" suggested in the first reply; I saw this as a very bad thing. "Work arounds" are what allow bugs to persist; without a "work around", there is much more pressure to do the right thing and fix the problem. In short, "striving for excellence" and "work arounds" are incompatible terms. Pick one.
The Grand Negus wrote:
You should care. About everything. We're all in the same boat.
But I don't. I don't give a rats ass about not being able to remove my DOB from my profile(not that it is up there). As long as I can still post to the boards and read the articles I don't care. If at any time Chris asked me for help then I would care, but at this point in time I do not.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
You should care. About everything. We're all in the same boat.
But I don't. I don't give a rats ass about not being able to remove my DOB from my profile(not that it is up there). As long as I can still post to the boards and read the articles I don't care. If at any time Chris asked me for help then I would care, but at this point in time I do not.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
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You are yet to explain what is wrong about the fact that I don't mind a mistake.
Brad Australian - Christian Graus on "Best books for VBscript" A big thick one, so you can whack yourself on the head with it.
Bradml wrote:
You are yet to explain what is wrong about the fact that I don't mind a mistake.
People either act on (1) principle or on (2) expediency. The principle here is that "bugs should be fixed". Period. But expediency says, "It doesn't concern me, so I don't care; Am I my brother's keeper?". Now consider: A man is being robbed outside your window. Principle says, "This is wrong. Rescue him." But expediency says, "It doesn't concern me, so I don't care." And please don't argue that this is different in kind; it is only different in degree. Like the girl who agrees to sell herself for a million dollars and then balks when the guy decides to pay only five. "What kind of a girl do you think I am?" she says; and he (rightly) replies: "We've already determined that. We're just quibbling about the price." He that is faithful in small things, will be faithful in large. If you are not faithful in that which is another mans', who will give you that which is your own?