So, what is the difference?
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Red Stateler wrote:
Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Ooohhh... So you assume that atheists have morals, after all...:-D
'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'
GK Chesterton -
Red Stateler wrote:
Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Ooohhh... So you assume that atheists have morals, after all...:-D
'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'
GK ChestertonDiego Moita wrote:
Ooohhh... So you assume that atheists have morals, after all....
I admit that I paused as I typed that, but then realized it was correct because I said "your moral pretenses", which implies moral relativism.
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Hmmmmm...I see a 1 vote, but nobody has had the courage to actually offer their opinion. Interesting.
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
So, whats the point of the question? Is there some canned argument you are wanting to unleash? My answer as someone who rejects the current left vs right scam for the joke it has become is: "Nope, no gun for you." And, if I get fired from my job, well then, I suppose I've made my bed haven't I. Ahhh, I see it now....do you want to turn this into an abortion argument? Bored are we?
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Hmmmmm...I see a 1 vote, but nobody has had the courage to actually offer their opinion. Interesting.
Answering your trolling with arguments is like putting medicine in a corpse's mouth.
'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'
GK Chesterton -
Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Red Stateler wrote:
I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head."
Sure. Wrong tool for the job. I would advise him that in using a rifle it would be almost impossible to shoot ones self in the head and sell him a handgun. I would also tell him that he really did not need any so called "high powered" caliber for the deed- a nice little 22 handgun would be fine. I mean why waste the bucks. I might even mention that if he caught his wife in the act he probably would not have to pay any alimony and that his insurance would cover the home and he might want to stop in at his local hospital and visit a few cancer patients and see what hard times really were before killing himself over a few little minor setbacks - but hey - thats just me. Richard
Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Red Stateler wrote:
Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Seeing as how, in this scenario, i'm a communist, i'd have no reason to object to it at all. In fact, i should praise the man for finally seeing the light and becoming a good communist. And then, his money firmly in hand, i'd send him on his way with a hearty pat on the back, to die a communist's death - broken and alone amidst the ruined remains of his bourgeois dreams... Things would become more troublesome if i was a capitalist though. First, i'd have to convince him that what he really needs is two guns...
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
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Answering your trolling with arguments is like putting medicine in a corpse's mouth.
'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'
GK ChestertonDiego Moita wrote:
Answering your trolling with arguments is like putting medicine in a corpse's mouth.
Zombie medicine?
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Red Stateler wrote:
Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Seeing as how, in this scenario, i'm a communist, i'd have no reason to object to it at all. In fact, i should praise the man for finally seeing the light and becoming a good communist. And then, his money firmly in hand, i'd send him on his way with a hearty pat on the back, to die a communist's death - broken and alone amidst the ruined remains of his bourgeois dreams... Things would become more troublesome if i was a capitalist though. First, i'd have to convince him that what he really needs is two guns...
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It appears that everybody is under the impression that I approve of the documentation. You probably also blame Ken Burns for supporting slavery.
--Raymond Chen on MSDN
Don't forget the scope and the extended warranty.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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So, whats the point of the question? Is there some canned argument you are wanting to unleash? My answer as someone who rejects the current left vs right scam for the joke it has become is: "Nope, no gun for you." And, if I get fired from my job, well then, I suppose I've made my bed haven't I. Ahhh, I see it now....do you want to turn this into an abortion argument? Bored are we?
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
It's in reference to the thread below where Diego complains about a pharmacist using his personal judgement to deny medicine designed to do something fundamentally opposed by his moral position. I'm just curious if, given a similar situation and a scenario that likely offends even a leftist, whether or not they would have a different opinion.
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Red Stateler wrote:
I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head."
Sure. Wrong tool for the job. I would advise him that in using a rifle it would be almost impossible to shoot ones self in the head and sell him a handgun. I would also tell him that he really did not need any so called "high powered" caliber for the deed- a nice little 22 handgun would be fine. I mean why waste the bucks. I might even mention that if he caught his wife in the act he probably would not have to pay any alimony and that his insurance would cover the home and he might want to stop in at his local hospital and visit a few cancer patients and see what hard times really were before killing himself over a few little minor setbacks - but hey - thats just me. Richard
Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain
I only said rifle because I don't think Walmart sells handguns. They might...I've just never seen them there.
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It's in reference to the thread below where Diego complains about a pharmacist using his personal judgement to deny medicine designed to do something fundamentally opposed by his moral position. I'm just curious if, given a similar situation and a scenario that likely offends even a leftist, whether or not they would have a different opinion.
I see. Thanks for the honest reply. I think it's a tough row to hoe for anyone in a similar situation of their moral or ethics being brought into conflict at work. I also think it that we should always consider conflicts like this when choosing our employers or profession. Easier said than done, I know. I made the mistake of working for an insurance company. After becoming familiar with what a bunch of shysters work in that field it killed me to contribute to their cause. So, I quit. I guess that is what I think the hypothetical pharmacist or sporting goods clerk should do as well.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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I see. Thanks for the honest reply. I think it's a tough row to hoe for anyone in a similar situation of their moral or ethics being brought into conflict at work. I also think it that we should always consider conflicts like this when choosing our employers or profession. Easier said than done, I know. I made the mistake of working for an insurance company. After becoming familiar with what a bunch of shysters work in that field it killed me to contribute to their cause. So, I quit. I guess that is what I think the hypothetical pharmacist or sporting goods clerk should do as well.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
I think it's a tough row to hoe for anyone in a similar situation of their moral or ethics being brought into conflict at work. I also think it that we should always consider conflicts like this when choosing our employers or profession. Easier said than done, I know.
I agree, but as I said in the other thread, the medical situation is increasingly abandoning ethics under the guise of increasing personal liberties. So what of a pharmacist who became one prior to "Plan B"? Should they have to abandon their many years of specialized training because certain groups demand that they abandon their principles in the name of personal liberty and service? Generally I'm inclined to think that, as you said, you shouldn't pursue a career you find immoral. But what if that career changes underneath you?
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Chris Austin wrote:
I think it's a tough row to hoe for anyone in a similar situation of their moral or ethics being brought into conflict at work. I also think it that we should always consider conflicts like this when choosing our employers or profession. Easier said than done, I know.
I agree, but as I said in the other thread, the medical situation is increasingly abandoning ethics under the guise of increasing personal liberties. So what of a pharmacist who became one prior to "Plan B"? Should they have to abandon their many years of specialized training because certain groups demand that they abandon their principles in the name of personal liberty and service? Generally I'm inclined to think that, as you said, you shouldn't pursue a career you find immoral. But what if that career changes underneath you?
Red Stateler wrote:
But what if that career changes underneath you?
My only thought, since I am on an bit of a be you own boss kick theses days, is that perhaps these folks could find or build their own niche. Why not start a co-op (or something of the sorts) of similarly concerned companies? I don't know about the legalities but I am sure that it could be done otherwise.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Red Stateler wrote:
Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Of course not. But, given that I'm:
Red Stateler wrote:
a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart
I would precondition the sale that he shoot me first. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Red Stateler wrote:
Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
No, as doing so would cut into my capitalist oppressor's profits. :rolleyes: I would, however, recommend he that first do some target practice -- on his wife. :)
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Red Stateler wrote:
Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius.
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Oh man, beer all over my laptop.... That was GOOD...no, really...you had me from line one. I'm going to preserve this I like it so much...I'm going to share this with my quant team... I voted you a 5 - I thought it was gold.
Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Red Stateler wrote:
Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Yes, andwhat does this have to do with whether I drool over Bush Cowboy Boots or Lenins hat?
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Imagine that you're a leftist and an employee of Wal-Mart. You've been assigned to the sporting goods section and, since it's 2 PM on Monday, you don't have many customers. Feeling dejected by the capialist behemoth's massive presence around you, you're just sitting there, rereading the Communist Manifesto for the third time in absolute wonderment of its genius. In walks a middle-aged gentleman who, except for his dishevelment, is otherwise well-dressed. He tells you, "This weekend I caught my wife having an affair with my brother. Afterwards, I went home to find my house had burned down. Just 20 minutes ago, I was fired from my job. I would like to buy the most powerful rifle you have and a box of bullets because I want to go to my now-charred home and shoot myself in the head." Do you, as that cashier, have a right under your moral pretenses to refuse that sale?
Maybe I would have a problem with the gun lying around in the dead guys house for anyone (excuse me), at liberty to use for other ends.