Time
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If Time was actually going backwards in our area of the Universe could we actually detect that it was? Remember, "The first think thats pops into your head doesn't need to come out your mouth" Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Regardless, I'm just a series of time-slices on the processor of life. J "I am wise enough to therefore not spout my ill informed opinion as if it were remotely related to fact." - Christian Graus
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If Time was actually going backwards in our area of the Universe could we actually detect that it was? Remember, "The first think thats pops into your head doesn't need to come out your mouth" Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Time does not exist outside of the relative movements based on perceived constraints. Because of this, forward or backward cannot really exist outside of our own awareness of the idea based on - once again - perception and constraints. This is like asking which way is up - there is none. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants? -
Time does not exist outside of the relative movements based on perceived constraints. Because of this, forward or backward cannot really exist outside of our own awareness of the idea based on - once again - perception and constraints. This is like asking which way is up - there is none. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants?That makes perfect sense to me. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Time does not exist outside of the relative movements based on perceived constraints. Because of this, forward or backward cannot really exist outside of our own awareness of the idea based on - once again - perception and constraints. This is like asking which way is up - there is none. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants?I disagree. There are some actions that will occur in one direction in time but not the other. Consider an object falling. Going forward in time the object will go down, going backwards in time it will go up. I stick to the premise that the second law of thermodynamics determines the direction of time. cheers, Chris Maunder
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I disagree. There are some actions that will occur in one direction in time but not the other. Consider an object falling. Going forward in time the object will go down, going backwards in time it will go up. I stick to the premise that the second law of thermodynamics determines the direction of time. cheers, Chris Maunder
But Chris, this still depends on relativity. The falling object is relative to the point of origin, to say the least. Our perceived time exists, but time itself doesn't. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants? -
But Chris, this still depends on relativity. The falling object is relative to the point of origin, to say the least. Our perceived time exists, but time itself doesn't. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants?OK - ambiguous analogy. How about fire? When something burns it's clear that fuel is consumed and entropy (disorder - in this case orderly arrangements of chemicals turning into a chaotic swirl of plasma and gas) increases. When you watch something burn either forwards or backwards in time it's quite clear which way you are going. cheers, Chris Maunder
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OK - ambiguous analogy. How about fire? When something burns it's clear that fuel is consumed and entropy (disorder - in this case orderly arrangements of chemicals turning into a chaotic swirl of plasma and gas) increases. When you watch something burn either forwards or backwards in time it's quite clear which way you are going. cheers, Chris Maunder
You're right, but that's not what I'm saying. Well, that's not what I'm trying to say. :-O I guess my wording skills leave a lot to be desired. Lemme elaborate a bit more... The perception of our idea of fire being present means there is perception present. Perception is based on relativity and constraints. Thus, those two factors are present allowing us to perceive our concept of time and other items associated with it. Remove yourself, the fire, the (relative) distance between you and the (perceived) fire, etc. from the equation. Then there is no way to measure forward or backward, time, or anything thing else for that matter. Time in itself does not exist, but it's our perceived notion of such things that allow our minds to formulate a mental basis of their existence. In short, time, fire, etc. only exists in our minds. Here's an analogy. Try going back 2000 years in the past and convince someone about bacteria’s presence. They'll most likely think you're nuts because to them it doesn't exist. Why, because they can't perceive it. They are constrained by the naked eye. When the microscope was invented our constraints changed. As a result, our perceptions changed. Now bacteria is a part of our perceived reality - just as time and fire are. But, if you remove certain items from the equation in this case even our idea of time can't hold up. It's all in our minds. We define our existence based what we perceive. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants? -
You're right, but that's not what I'm saying. Well, that's not what I'm trying to say. :-O I guess my wording skills leave a lot to be desired. Lemme elaborate a bit more... The perception of our idea of fire being present means there is perception present. Perception is based on relativity and constraints. Thus, those two factors are present allowing us to perceive our concept of time and other items associated with it. Remove yourself, the fire, the (relative) distance between you and the (perceived) fire, etc. from the equation. Then there is no way to measure forward or backward, time, or anything thing else for that matter. Time in itself does not exist, but it's our perceived notion of such things that allow our minds to formulate a mental basis of their existence. In short, time, fire, etc. only exists in our minds. Here's an analogy. Try going back 2000 years in the past and convince someone about bacteria’s presence. They'll most likely think you're nuts because to them it doesn't exist. Why, because they can't perceive it. They are constrained by the naked eye. When the microscope was invented our constraints changed. As a result, our perceptions changed. Now bacteria is a part of our perceived reality - just as time and fire are. But, if you remove certain items from the equation in this case even our idea of time can't hold up. It's all in our minds. We define our existence based what we perceive. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants?Jeremy Falcon wrote: We define our existence based what we perceive. Is that like. I think, therefore I am ?? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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You're right, but that's not what I'm saying. Well, that's not what I'm trying to say. :-O I guess my wording skills leave a lot to be desired. Lemme elaborate a bit more... The perception of our idea of fire being present means there is perception present. Perception is based on relativity and constraints. Thus, those two factors are present allowing us to perceive our concept of time and other items associated with it. Remove yourself, the fire, the (relative) distance between you and the (perceived) fire, etc. from the equation. Then there is no way to measure forward or backward, time, or anything thing else for that matter. Time in itself does not exist, but it's our perceived notion of such things that allow our minds to formulate a mental basis of their existence. In short, time, fire, etc. only exists in our minds. Here's an analogy. Try going back 2000 years in the past and convince someone about bacteria’s presence. They'll most likely think you're nuts because to them it doesn't exist. Why, because they can't perceive it. They are constrained by the naked eye. When the microscope was invented our constraints changed. As a result, our perceptions changed. Now bacteria is a part of our perceived reality - just as time and fire are. But, if you remove certain items from the equation in this case even our idea of time can't hold up. It's all in our minds. We define our existence based what we perceive. Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants?What you're proprosing is a philosophy similar to George Berkeley where he says "to be is to be perceived" ie nothing exists unless (until) it's percieved by us. Nothing actually exists in the material world. I disagree strongly with this (this, to me, is akin to a 3 year old pulling the covers over their head and stating that if they can't see the bogeyman, the bogeyman can't see them). I argue that physical processes go on regardless of perception, and that time and space are coupled inseparably. The rate you move in time is dependant on the rate you move in space, and in some situations (eg the interior of the event horizon of a black hole) these roles are reversed. You say that there is no way to measure the time if we take away the ability to measure something relative to us. The same goes for velocity. We can't measure our speed if we don't have something to measure it against (in fact velocity is a pointless quantity without a reference value). Does that make the measurement of velocity a moot (or imaginary) point? The equations of motion in physics are reversible, so that processes can work backwards and forwards equally well. However the probability that things will work both ways is infinitisimely small. Chemicals can ignite and burn in one direction of time, and there is definitely the chance that a bunch of chemicals may spontaneously congregate to form a plasma and from there join to form the smooth, cool head of a match. The chances are so small that it's safe to use events like this to determine the direction we travel in time. cheers, Chris Maunder
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What you're proprosing is a philosophy similar to George Berkeley where he says "to be is to be perceived" ie nothing exists unless (until) it's percieved by us. Nothing actually exists in the material world. I disagree strongly with this (this, to me, is akin to a 3 year old pulling the covers over their head and stating that if they can't see the bogeyman, the bogeyman can't see them). I argue that physical processes go on regardless of perception, and that time and space are coupled inseparably. The rate you move in time is dependant on the rate you move in space, and in some situations (eg the interior of the event horizon of a black hole) these roles are reversed. You say that there is no way to measure the time if we take away the ability to measure something relative to us. The same goes for velocity. We can't measure our speed if we don't have something to measure it against (in fact velocity is a pointless quantity without a reference value). Does that make the measurement of velocity a moot (or imaginary) point? The equations of motion in physics are reversible, so that processes can work backwards and forwards equally well. However the probability that things will work both ways is infinitisimely small. Chemicals can ignite and burn in one direction of time, and there is definitely the chance that a bunch of chemicals may spontaneously congregate to form a plasma and from there join to form the smooth, cool head of a match. The chances are so small that it's safe to use events like this to determine the direction we travel in time. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: I argue that physical processes go on regardless of perception, It's our perception that makes them physical processes in the first place. We define, classify, and label them whatever because we are able to perceive them. It doesn't necessarily mean the arrangement of whatever wasn't there, but more so that our thoughts and ideas of it weren't. Therefore, things as we see it wasn't there. Therefore, things as we know it wasn't there. Our concept of time could easily be interpreted as toilet paper in another galaxy. And, as any good alien knows, toilet paper most certainly does exist, but how they see it is defined by my aforementioned posts. The whole forwards and backwards notion doesn't change, just our thoughts on it wrap to what we know as our reality. Image being deaf, paralyzed, and mute your entire life and trying to explain what sex (presuming you know of its existence) is like without someone else being able to convey that to you. You'd conceive your own ideas about it, and it becomes your own reality regarding sex. And, sex would be different for you. It would be different for another man. So, then you’d have to go on to things about what sex really is in the first place, etc. I believe that objects are what they are, but it's our minds that make them what we want to see from what is there. Don't you just love stimulating conversation? It sure beats the heck out of, "does my hair look okay?" ;) Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants? -
Jeremy Falcon wrote: We define our existence based what we perceive. Is that like. I think, therefore I am ?? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
****Colin Davies wrote: I think, therefore I am Yup. And, that reminds me of a joke... A lady was taking a trip via airplane and her seat was right next that of René Descartes, but her ticket called for the window seat where he was already sitting. She asked him if he would move and he replied, "I think not." *Poof* -- he disappeared. :) Jeremy L. Falcon Homepage : Sonork = 100.16311
Perseverance pushes past painful promenades - providing precious peace. Surely some striving souls survive symptomatic stress? Maybe my mangling might misguide malicious miscreants?