Religion is a mental illness
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Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:
Not really. It explains a lot where religion has gone out of hand.
I never thought I would see you defend something I posted.
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
I'm no fan of religion. :)
-- Based on a True Story
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http://www.globusz.com/Articles/00000002.asp[^] From the article: What could possibly be more damaging to a child than telling him over and over from the time he's an infant that there exists an invisible person who is unwilling to prove he exists watching him every second of every day and reading his thoughts and if he doesn't believe in the invisible person he will be tortured for eternity? Yet we tell that same child that monsters don't exist so it's silly to be scared of monsters. Religion is one of the most serious mental illnesses of today. It is the inablity to face the reality of life and the finality of death. It affects as high as 85% of the American Society. Approximately 75% of the American victims of this mental illness are Christians. The more pathetic and desperate a persons life, the more likely they are to believe in a god. Typically, people with otherwise empty lives, are the stongest believers. It gives them the false hope that there is a higher meaning to their sad and pathetic lives. The strongest of believers would admittedly be suicidal without religion and/or a god in their lives providing a mental safety valve. Temporal Lobe Epilepsy disorder has been linked to extreme religious experiences. Patients who have TLE may have sudden and dramatic spiritual changes. There are many instances of these patients converting from agnostic or atheist beliefs to strongly active religious faiths. TLE causes abnormal electrical activity in their temporal regions and has been directly linked to these radical changes in religious belief and personality changes. Curiously, religious chanting and meditation reduce the activity of frontal lobe activity, which heightens Temporal Lobe activity. Further research in this area has uncovered that electrical stimulation of areas in the Temporal Lobe also produce these spiritual experiences. The electrical stimulation caused the control group to report feelings of “well being” euphoria and a feeling of a “presence”. Now i wonder how long it will take for some christian to reply and say that what they belive is not a religion but the "Truth".
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
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http://www.globusz.com/Articles/00000002.asp[^] From the article: What could possibly be more damaging to a child than telling him over and over from the time he's an infant that there exists an invisible person who is unwilling to prove he exists watching him every second of every day and reading his thoughts and if he doesn't believe in the invisible person he will be tortured for eternity? Yet we tell that same child that monsters don't exist so it's silly to be scared of monsters. Religion is one of the most serious mental illnesses of today. It is the inablity to face the reality of life and the finality of death. It affects as high as 85% of the American Society. Approximately 75% of the American victims of this mental illness are Christians. The more pathetic and desperate a persons life, the more likely they are to believe in a god. Typically, people with otherwise empty lives, are the stongest believers. It gives them the false hope that there is a higher meaning to their sad and pathetic lives. The strongest of believers would admittedly be suicidal without religion and/or a god in their lives providing a mental safety valve. Temporal Lobe Epilepsy disorder has been linked to extreme religious experiences. Patients who have TLE may have sudden and dramatic spiritual changes. There are many instances of these patients converting from agnostic or atheist beliefs to strongly active religious faiths. TLE causes abnormal electrical activity in their temporal regions and has been directly linked to these radical changes in religious belief and personality changes. Curiously, religious chanting and meditation reduce the activity of frontal lobe activity, which heightens Temporal Lobe activity. Further research in this area has uncovered that electrical stimulation of areas in the Temporal Lobe also produce these spiritual experiences. The electrical stimulation caused the control group to report feelings of “well being” euphoria and a feeling of a “presence”. Now i wonder how long it will take for some christian to reply and say that what they belive is not a religion but the "Truth".
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
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http://www.globusz.com/Articles/00000002.asp[^] From the article: What could possibly be more damaging to a child than telling him over and over from the time he's an infant that there exists an invisible person who is unwilling to prove he exists watching him every second of every day and reading his thoughts and if he doesn't believe in the invisible person he will be tortured for eternity? Yet we tell that same child that monsters don't exist so it's silly to be scared of monsters. Religion is one of the most serious mental illnesses of today. It is the inablity to face the reality of life and the finality of death. It affects as high as 85% of the American Society. Approximately 75% of the American victims of this mental illness are Christians. The more pathetic and desperate a persons life, the more likely they are to believe in a god. Typically, people with otherwise empty lives, are the stongest believers. It gives them the false hope that there is a higher meaning to their sad and pathetic lives. The strongest of believers would admittedly be suicidal without religion and/or a god in their lives providing a mental safety valve. Temporal Lobe Epilepsy disorder has been linked to extreme religious experiences. Patients who have TLE may have sudden and dramatic spiritual changes. There are many instances of these patients converting from agnostic or atheist beliefs to strongly active religious faiths. TLE causes abnormal electrical activity in their temporal regions and has been directly linked to these radical changes in religious belief and personality changes. Curiously, religious chanting and meditation reduce the activity of frontal lobe activity, which heightens Temporal Lobe activity. Further research in this area has uncovered that electrical stimulation of areas in the Temporal Lobe also produce these spiritual experiences. The electrical stimulation caused the control group to report feelings of “well being” euphoria and a feeling of a “presence”. Now i wonder how long it will take for some christian to reply and say that what they belive is not a religion but the "Truth".
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
Curious about something, and maybe this is the wrong thread for the question, but here goes.. I see people on both sides of the religious question basically become elitist die hards in their opinions. Only the atheists have the true logical answers, because if something cannot be empirically proven, it cant be true. Believers in (insert religious affiliation here) tell those atheist's that they have the truth of belief, and the holy words handed down to prove their side, and the others must be wrong. My quetion is this.. do we REALLY want to prove or disprove the existence of GOD? If we were to disprove the existence of ANY of the gods of the worlds religions we would be destroying the cultures and heritages developed over thousands of years. While I know that the history of almost every religion has its dark periods, those religions also have thousands of good and honest souls who have given their life work to furthering their religions message in peaceful ways. Taking something so fundamental to their being away from them doesn't sound very noble to me.... Now suppose we prove that GOD does exist in a fashion which even the most ardent atheist would have to accept. What we are telling that person is that his very life's work and belief system is nothing. that the safe world of logic, predictable physics, and well thought out theory's can be blown away at the whim of an all powerful creator. Again, not a very noble thing to do. Maybe its just better if both sides agree to disagree, have a beer, and use the efforts they put into this argument to solve more pressing issues like ,oh I don't know .. end world hunger?
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What could possibly be more damaging to a child than I can think of a few. The whole segment is of a "flea bites are so bad, we must focus on fighting flea bites" attitude, which is silly. It also completely misses the point of religion, which is understandable.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
misses the point of religion, which is understandable
Are you saying religion is understandable or that the article misses the point? Personally I don't understand willingly giving your life to religion. What is to be gained from it apart from yet one more person/group telling you how to live? I'm a grown-up with lots of life experience, warts 'n all. I know how to live without some mentally deranged priest or rabbi or imam or whomever whatever telling me I should do it like they do or something bad will happen to me. LEAVE ME ALONE: I don't need you and I don't want you.
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It's interesting to me that there are athiests sufficiently insecure or just plain retarded to bother writing this sort of drivel. Any sort of brain problem can lead to all sorts of personality changes and/or experiences that are not real. This doesn't prove that all people who believe in some sort of God, are suffering from any sort of physical brain issue. It simply proves that religious feeling, like any other emotion or thought process, exists in the brain as a chemical reaction, which some conditions can trigger, but which can also just occur normally.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
From where I'm standing, anyone dumb enough to place their lives in the hands of an unknown, unseen and, quite frankly, nasty little god is a fool. What does it say about you if you worship a god that lets innocent children die of starvation or allows a natural disaster to overwhelm and destroy the lives of thousands of poor people in countries where the people can barely cope when things are going well? What, exactly, did these people do to incur the wrath of your spiteful little god?
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Curious about something, and maybe this is the wrong thread for the question, but here goes.. I see people on both sides of the religious question basically become elitist die hards in their opinions. Only the atheists have the true logical answers, because if something cannot be empirically proven, it cant be true. Believers in (insert religious affiliation here) tell those atheist's that they have the truth of belief, and the holy words handed down to prove their side, and the others must be wrong. My quetion is this.. do we REALLY want to prove or disprove the existence of GOD? If we were to disprove the existence of ANY of the gods of the worlds religions we would be destroying the cultures and heritages developed over thousands of years. While I know that the history of almost every religion has its dark periods, those religions also have thousands of good and honest souls who have given their life work to furthering their religions message in peaceful ways. Taking something so fundamental to their being away from them doesn't sound very noble to me.... Now suppose we prove that GOD does exist in a fashion which even the most ardent atheist would have to accept. What we are telling that person is that his very life's work and belief system is nothing. that the safe world of logic, predictable physics, and well thought out theory's can be blown away at the whim of an all powerful creator. Again, not a very noble thing to do. Maybe its just better if both sides agree to disagree, have a beer, and use the efforts they put into this argument to solve more pressing issues like ,oh I don't know .. end world hunger?
mnvkng76 wrote:
If we were to disprove the existence of ANY of the gods of the worlds religions we would be destroying the cultures and heritages developed over thousands of years.
Happens all the time: where is Zeus now? Or Thor? Yet the Greeks and the Scandinavians appear to be surviving; I mean, hubba-hubba, have you seen some of those Scandinavian women??? Yeehah! (sorry, I'm being a redneck and I've never even been to the Ozarks or wherever they come from).
mnvkng76 wrote:
Now suppose we prove that GOD does exist in a fashion which even the most ardent atheist would have to accept.
So what if god does exist? Would it change my life other than that I've been proved wrong? No, not really. I would still not become a religious adherent since what would be the point? A real god does not need worshipping: what sort of a god requires its ego massaged on that scale Not much of a god, I would have thought.
mnvkng76 wrote:
Maybe its just better if both sides agree to disagree, have a beer, and use the efforts they put into this argument to solve more pressing issues like ,oh I don't know .. end world hunger?
Yeah, right...
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From where I'm standing, anyone dumb enough to place their lives in the hands of an unknown, unseen and, quite frankly, nasty little god is a fool. What does it say about you if you worship a god that lets innocent children die of starvation or allows a natural disaster to overwhelm and destroy the lives of thousands of poor people in countries where the people can barely cope when things are going well? What, exactly, did these people do to incur the wrath of your spiteful little god?
Well, your comment represent a different kind of ignorance to that of the OP, and you're entitled to your opinion.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Well, your comment represent a different kind of ignorance to that of the OP, and you're entitled to your opinion.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
So, no actual answer, just an insult. Try answering the question without resorting to a personal attack or tell me I'm wrong and demonstrate why. Until you can you'd be wiser to stay silent. There's an old saying which I would say applies very neatly to you: open your mouth and prove you're a fool: keep it shut and keep 'em guessing.
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So, no actual answer, just an insult. Try answering the question without resorting to a personal attack or tell me I'm wrong and demonstrate why. Until you can you'd be wiser to stay silent. There's an old saying which I would say applies very neatly to you: open your mouth and prove you're a fool: keep it shut and keep 'em guessing.
digital man wrote:
There's an old saying which I would say applies very neatly to you: open your mouth and prove you're a fool: keep it shut and keep 'em guessing.
I actually wrote a detailed answer to your reply, and I've deleted it. You want to say I am insulting ( I wasn't - you ARE ignorant, the definition of which is, uninformed ), and then you think it's OK to insult me ? That makes you a hypocrite, and it makes talking to you, beneath me.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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mnvkng76 wrote:
If we were to disprove the existence of ANY of the gods of the worlds religions we would be destroying the cultures and heritages developed over thousands of years.
Happens all the time: where is Zeus now? Or Thor? Yet the Greeks and the Scandinavians appear to be surviving; I mean, hubba-hubba, have you seen some of those Scandinavian women??? Yeehah! (sorry, I'm being a redneck and I've never even been to the Ozarks or wherever they come from).
mnvkng76 wrote:
Now suppose we prove that GOD does exist in a fashion which even the most ardent atheist would have to accept.
So what if god does exist? Would it change my life other than that I've been proved wrong? No, not really. I would still not become a religious adherent since what would be the point? A real god does not need worshipping: what sort of a god requires its ego massaged on that scale Not much of a god, I would have thought.
mnvkng76 wrote:
Maybe its just better if both sides agree to disagree, have a beer, and use the efforts they put into this argument to solve more pressing issues like ,oh I don't know .. end world hunger?
Yeah, right...
digital man wrote:
Happens all the time: where is Zeus now? Or Thor? Yet the Greeks and the Scandinavians appear to be surviving; I mean, hubba-hubba, have you seen some of those Scandinavian women??? Yeehah! (sorry, I'm being a redneck and I've never even been to the Ozarks or wherever they come from).
They were disproved? When? Don't get me wrong I don't believe in those pantheons, but I don't recall any one giving any definitive proof they don't or didn't exist. Belief systems changed, but there was no one moment in history that can be pointed to as saying " these gods didn't exist", except by other religious systems. Science has no way to point to them and say they DIDN”T exist. Thats the crux of the whole argument. Again I'm not saying that I believe in those pantheons, just that theres no tangible proof that can be pointed to as saying they didn't exist.
digital man wrote:
So what if god does exist? Would it change my life other than that I've been proved wrong? No, not really. I would still not become a religious adherent since what would be the point? A real god does not need worshipping: what sort of a god requires its ego massaged on that scale Not much of a god, I would have thought
You life wouldn't maybe, but many would. You don't live in a vacuum, whether you believe so or not. Your needs and concerns aren't the be all and end all of this question, nor are mine. And as far as your theological question about what sort of a GOD needs to be worshiped? I'm not discussing the validity of religions, I'm asking a question about whether humanity as a whole is better off without the answer. You've answered for yourself and thats fine, but leave the arguing about religion itself out of the discussion. As far as Scandinavian women, my wife is Swedish. So yeah, I've seen some of them.. and yeah many of them are hot.
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peterchen wrote:
misses the point of religion, which is understandable
Are you saying religion is understandable or that the article misses the point? Personally I don't understand willingly giving your life to religion. What is to be gained from it apart from yet one more person/group telling you how to live? I'm a grown-up with lots of life experience, warts 'n all. I know how to live without some mentally deranged priest or rabbi or imam or whomever whatever telling me I should do it like they do or something bad will happen to me. LEAVE ME ALONE: I don't need you and I don't want you.
digital man wrote:
that the article misses the point?
that one. First, I don't expect you to understand, only to accept. Second, separate belief and church. Third, I didn#t tell you anything. mentally deranged indeed.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
digital man wrote:
that the article misses the point?
that one. First, I don't expect you to understand, only to accept. Second, separate belief and church. Third, I didn#t tell you anything. mentally deranged indeed.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighistSorrym, was not referring to you in particular, rather to the raving nutter evangelists who'd as soon damn you to hell as convert you. :)
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digital man wrote:
There's an old saying which I would say applies very neatly to you: open your mouth and prove you're a fool: keep it shut and keep 'em guessing.
I actually wrote a detailed answer to your reply, and I've deleted it. You want to say I am insulting ( I wasn't - you ARE ignorant, the definition of which is, uninformed ), and then you think it's OK to insult me ? That makes you a hypocrite, and it makes talking to you, beneath me.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Mine was a direct observation based on your reply and you've just reinforced it.
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digital man wrote:
There's an old saying which I would say applies very neatly to you: open your mouth and prove you're a fool: keep it shut and keep 'em guessing.
I actually wrote a detailed answer to your reply, and I've deleted it. You want to say I am insulting ( I wasn't - you ARE ignorant, the definition of which is, uninformed ), and then you think it's OK to insult me ? That makes you a hypocrite, and it makes talking to you, beneath me.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I actually wrote a detailed answer to your reply, and I've deleted it. You want to say I am insulting ( I wasn't - you ARE ignorant, the definition of which is, uninformed ), and then you think it's OK to insult me ? That makes you a hypocrite, and it makes talking to you, beneath me.
Good job man, I am sure Jesus is so glad to have you protecting him from all the evil athiests on this board! He certainly has a big reward waiting on you in heaven for all your hard work.
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
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Mine was a direct observation based on your reply and you've just reinforced it.
digital man wrote:
Mine was a direct observation based on your reply and you've just reinforced it.
Isn't it amazing how quickly he gets defensive and starts throwing insults? I bet in his little world he really thinks he is doing something important though. The sad thing is all the losers who line up to vote him 5 because of his membership status.
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
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digital man wrote:
Mine was a direct observation based on your reply and you've just reinforced it.
Isn't it amazing how quickly he gets defensive and starts throwing insults? I bet in his little world he really thinks he is doing something important though. The sad thing is all the losers who line up to vote him 5 because of his membership status.
There is no heaven, there is no hell, except here on Earth. - Anton LaVey
I would have been happy had he chosen to demolish me with an astute, learned argument which I was incapable of refuting due to its shining brilliance. He chose to respond with an insult. Charming. He did say that he'd constructed such an argument but chose not to put it up. What a pity: good, bad or indifferent one should always be prepared to answer to one's opinions and beliefs.
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Sorrym, was not referring to you in particular, rather to the raving nutter evangelists who'd as soon damn you to hell as convert you. :)
ok :)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!|FoldWithUs! | sighist -
digital man wrote:
There's an old saying which I would say applies very neatly to you: open your mouth and prove you're a fool: keep it shut and keep 'em guessing.
I actually wrote a detailed answer to your reply, and I've deleted it. You want to say I am insulting ( I wasn't - you ARE ignorant, the definition of which is, uninformed ), and then you think it's OK to insult me ? That makes you a hypocrite, and it makes talking to you, beneath me.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Don't cast your pearls before swine my friend.
"Acceptance without proof is the fundamental characteristic of Western religion, rejection without proof is the fundamental characteristic of Western science." - Gary Zukav
Jason Henderson
space art blog -
From where I'm standing, anyone dumb enough to place their lives in the hands of an unknown, unseen and, quite frankly, nasty little god is a fool. What does it say about you if you worship a god that lets innocent children die of starvation or allows a natural disaster to overwhelm and destroy the lives of thousands of poor people in countries where the people can barely cope when things are going well? What, exactly, did these people do to incur the wrath of your spiteful little god?
I like how you keep returning to the "letting innocent children die". So, you worship children? Keyword: Natural. Why you insist on a meddler is beyond me. I for one would find more value in a God that stays out of the way and observes rather than one which meddles in everyday life. I've never been a fan of Fate, Destiny, Divine Intervention, or Providence. We should succeed soley by our own actions and not a meddling God manipulating the entire thing for personal want. Next. And again, natural disasters are not God's Wrath. Its natural... This is the weakest argument against religion, yet people choose it all the time, even your atheist manifesto uses this as a major point of contention. Which is just rediculous. Not to mention intelligently deficient.
This statement was never false.