Intellectual Property - What exactly is it?
-
I have a program I wrote at my job that is used internally. We do not and will not sell software, it's just not a part of our business. Some other companies have found out about this program and wish to purchase it. I figured I could go home and re-write the program and make some cash on the side. So, to be safe I talked to our CIO about it, he told me I couldn't because that is intellectual property. Does the company I work for own my thoughts and ideas? What can I do on the side? Does it have to be a completely different line of business?
-
I have a program I wrote at my job that is used internally. We do not and will not sell software, it's just not a part of our business. Some other companies have found out about this program and wish to purchase it. I figured I could go home and re-write the program and make some cash on the side. So, to be safe I talked to our CIO about it, he told me I couldn't because that is intellectual property. Does the company I work for own my thoughts and ideas? What can I do on the side? Does it have to be a completely different line of business?
Chris Crumbaker wrote:
Does the company I work for own my thoughts and ideas?
Yep! Any applications that you write that are used in the course of your company's business automatically become the property of the company. The code you write is the property of the company and you are expected to treat it as such. I could come up with tons more code example snippets for use in these forums, but since I don't own the code, I can't post them here! You COULD HAVE written this application outside the company, not having used it at all inside the company(!!) and sold in on the side to both your own company and others. But this option isn't available to you anymore. Since it's now the property of the company you work for, it's up to them it they want to sell it to others.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007 -
Chris Crumbaker wrote:
Does the company I work for own my thoughts and ideas?
Yep! Any applications that you write that are used in the course of your company's business automatically become the property of the company. The code you write is the property of the company and you are expected to treat it as such. I could come up with tons more code example snippets for use in these forums, but since I don't own the code, I can't post them here! You COULD HAVE written this application outside the company, not having used it at all inside the company(!!) and sold in on the side to both your own company and others. But this option isn't available to you anymore. Since it's now the property of the company you work for, it's up to them it they want to sell it to others.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007So, if I re-wrote the program at home starting from scratch and ending up with a program that is similar, but not the same to the program I wrote at work. The new program would be the property of the company I work for?
-
I have a program I wrote at my job that is used internally. We do not and will not sell software, it's just not a part of our business. Some other companies have found out about this program and wish to purchase it. I figured I could go home and re-write the program and make some cash on the side. So, to be safe I talked to our CIO about it, he told me I couldn't because that is intellectual property. Does the company I work for own my thoughts and ideas? What can I do on the side? Does it have to be a completely different line of business?
That depends on what you've signed when you started your job. It could be anywhere from 'anything you do on your own time is totally yours' to 'we own any software you write on your own time even if it's completely unrelated to anything you do at work', or anything in between. You'll need to discuss with HR/management to find out what your companies policy does and doesn't allow you to do.
-- CleaKO The sad part about this instance is that none of the users ever said anything [about the problem]. Pete O`Hanlon Doesn't that just tell you everything you need to know about users?
-
So, if I re-wrote the program at home starting from scratch and ending up with a program that is similar, but not the same to the program I wrote at work. The new program would be the property of the company I work for?
You must read carefully what you sign when starting to work for a company. If HR guys are smart enough, you should have signed something like: all work you've done in that period of time belongs to XYZ company. Request for a copy and read it carefully :)
-richard ____________________ http://www.swbox.com
-
So, if I re-wrote the program at home starting from scratch and ending up with a program that is similar, but not the same to the program I wrote at work. The new program would be the property of the company I work for?
You'll have to negotiate that with the company. It could be viewed, by the company legal team, as as updated version of the one you're using internally.
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007 -
I have a program I wrote at my job that is used internally. We do not and will not sell software, it's just not a part of our business. Some other companies have found out about this program and wish to purchase it. I figured I could go home and re-write the program and make some cash on the side. So, to be safe I talked to our CIO about it, he told me I couldn't because that is intellectual property. Does the company I work for own my thoughts and ideas? What can I do on the side? Does it have to be a completely different line of business?
In the US at least, any IP you create as part of your job is owned by your employer.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ Ford, what's this fish doing in my ear?
-
In the US at least, any IP you create as part of your job is owned by your employer.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ Ford, what's this fish doing in my ear?
:-D Maybe these certs[^] are more useful!
"Posting a VB.NET question in the C++ forum will end in tears." Chris Maunder
-
So, if I re-wrote the program at home starting from scratch and ending up with a program that is similar, but not the same to the program I wrote at work. The new program would be the property of the company I work for?
Unless there is some specific restraint of trade clause in your contract, my understanding is that as long as you only take your thoughts with you, you can recreate the software and own the new version. Think of it - there is generally nothing stopping you going to work for another company and making new software for them to sell, so if you happen to own that new company (or if you just do it for yourself), you would own the software. Of course, if you are serious in taking this further, you should get legal advice. If there is some sort of restraint of trade clause in your contract (e.g. preventing you for working in a similar area for n years after leaving the job), then you have a problem, but these are rare. The only caveat would be if there were any of these unpleasant software patents involved, but I suspect not or you would have mentioned it. If you are serious it may be worthwhile considering whether you can come up with an arrangement that would benefit both yourself and your employer. For example, in return for royalty-free license to the latest version, maybe they would allow you to sell the software. They get the benefit of free upgrades / maintenance. However, if the software provides some sort of competitive advantage to your employer, then they may not be keen to allow you to sell it to their competitors. I have seen developers in this position before, considering they have a category killer, however it is in the company's interest to keep it proprietary (in some cases even though they could not afford to maintain it!)
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
-
I have a program I wrote at my job that is used internally. We do not and will not sell software, it's just not a part of our business. Some other companies have found out about this program and wish to purchase it. I figured I could go home and re-write the program and make some cash on the side. So, to be safe I talked to our CIO about it, he told me I couldn't because that is intellectual property. Does the company I work for own my thoughts and ideas? What can I do on the side? Does it have to be a completely different line of business?
"Intellectual Property" is an all-encompassing term that covers patents, copyright, and trademarks. The "IP" that your CIO is talking about is the copyright of your program. Basically, the company is making a claim of ownership of that code since you developed it on company time (ie: "Work For Hire"). The basic idea of copyright is that you own your own works unless you assign those rights to another person (or company). However, in an employement relationship, the "author" of the work is the company. Also, you'd need to review any employment contracts and such that you signed with the company regarding assignment of IP. Lots of companies make you pretty much assign to them anything you develop during the time you're employed by them to the company - even stuff that you do on your own time and has zero connection to the company in any way. Regarding what you can or can't do on the side, the answer is "it depends" on whether or not you have any non-compete or assignment of rights agreements with the company you work at. It's really important to read anything you sign and keep copies.