How Christians see non-christians
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I'm a Christian and what is said in that link is a bunch of bullshiite! Yes there is a hell, but it will be reserved for those who profess to believe in Christ but choose not to follow his teachings. God will *not* judge or condemn those who don't know or don't believe. Everyone will get a chance to accept or reject Christ, either in this life or the next.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
Please, if you're going to start your post with
ahhz wrote:
I'm a Christian
and then proceed to describe a basic orthodoxy of that religion as
ahhz wrote:
bullshiite!
at least have the courtesy to back up your point with some higher authority than Monty Python.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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I can't get it to load without it making a horrible racket so no. I certainly don't agree with it in that sense.;) The excerpt you posted seems factually correct. There will certainly be large tracts of such I site that I can agree with and parts that I cannot. My agreement is pretty irrelvent of course although it's nice of you to ask. The site is either biblicaly sound or it is not. That is the only relevent standard by which such things can be judged. Whether any particlular statement from the site is in accordance with scripture or not is a separate debate but suffice it to say that in as much as the site is in accordance with scripture I agree with it. How could I do otherwise and sincerely claim to be Christian?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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I'm a Christian and what is said in that link is a bunch of bullshiite! Yes there is a hell, but it will be reserved for those who profess to believe in Christ but choose not to follow his teachings. God will *not* judge or condemn those who don't know or don't believe. Everyone will get a chance to accept or reject Christ, either in this life or the next.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
ahhz wrote:
Yes there is a hell, but it will be reserved for those who profess to believe in Christ but choose not to follow his teachings. God will *not* judge or condemn those who don't know or don't believe. Everyone will get a chance to accept or reject Christ, either in this life or the next.
As an atheist, your idea of God's afterlife makes sense to me. But, not every believer agrees. Faithfull assured me the other day (based on conversations he's had with the wizard himself or stuff he pulled out of some book, I'm not sure) that I can only go to heaven if I convert to Christianity before I die. That almost put a damper on my plans to wait till death to get that sorted out. :)
- Your choice of lifestyle is an abomination. - But I've been this way since I was a child. - The scriptures say it is of the Devil! - But who am I hurting by being this way? - It's EVIL! You must renounce this behavior! - What if it's NATURAL? - There's no proof of that! BEING LEFT HANDED IN THE MIDDLE AGES.
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Please, if you're going to start your post with
ahhz wrote:
I'm a Christian
and then proceed to describe a basic orthodoxy of that religion as
ahhz wrote:
bullshiite!
at least have the courtesy to back up your point with some higher authority than Monty Python.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
at least have the courtesy to back up your point with some higher authority than Monty Python.
I'm sure he didn't expect the bloody Spanish Inquisition! Where is Cardinal Fang when he is needed most?!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Please, if you're going to start your post with
ahhz wrote:
I'm a Christian
and then proceed to describe a basic orthodoxy of that religion as
ahhz wrote:
bullshiite!
at least have the courtesy to back up your point with some higher authority than Monty Python.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
basic orthodoxy of that religion
It isn't what Jesus taught nor the prohpets, therefore it is hardly Christian orthodoxy. It is just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo thought-up by self-serving preachers practicing priestcraft for money, influence and power.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
proceed to describe
You're like those that Isaiah describes in Isaiah 29:20-24[^]: 20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off: 21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought. 22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. 23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel. 24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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ahhz wrote:
Yes there is a hell, but it will be reserved for those who profess to believe in Christ but choose not to follow his teachings. God will *not* judge or condemn those who don't know or don't believe. Everyone will get a chance to accept or reject Christ, either in this life or the next.
As an atheist, your idea of God's afterlife makes sense to me. But, not every believer agrees. Faithfull assured me the other day (based on conversations he's had with the wizard himself or stuff he pulled out of some book, I'm not sure) that I can only go to heaven if I convert to Christianity before I die. That almost put a damper on my plans to wait till death to get that sorted out. :)
- Your choice of lifestyle is an abomination. - But I've been this way since I was a child. - The scriptures say it is of the Devil! - But who am I hurting by being this way? - It's EVIL! You must renounce this behavior! - What if it's NATURAL? - There's no proof of that! BEING LEFT HANDED IN THE MIDDLE AGES.
I think Microsoft bought Christianity, and after firing all of the original employees, they made conversion impossible by introducing a closed-source proprietary belief system.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
ahhz wrote:
Yes there is a hell, but it will be reserved for those who profess to believe in Christ but choose not to follow his teachings. God will *not* judge or condemn those who don't know or don't believe. Everyone will get a chance to accept or reject Christ, either in this life or the next.
As an atheist, your idea of God's afterlife makes sense to me. But, not every believer agrees. Faithfull assured me the other day (based on conversations he's had with the wizard himself or stuff he pulled out of some book, I'm not sure) that I can only go to heaven if I convert to Christianity before I die. That almost put a damper on my plans to wait till death to get that sorted out. :)
- Your choice of lifestyle is an abomination. - But I've been this way since I was a child. - The scriptures say it is of the Devil! - But who am I hurting by being this way? - It's EVIL! You must renounce this behavior! - What if it's NATURAL? - There's no proof of that! BEING LEFT HANDED IN THE MIDDLE AGES.
Al Beback wrote:
As an atheist, your idea of God's afterlife makes sense to me.
It's the only way it would be fair and as a believer it's the only way that makes sense to me. God is not capricious and is no respecter of persons (meaning he values everyone the same).
Al Beback wrote:
But, not every believer agrees.
True, hence the need for true prophets and true teachers until we all come to a unity of the faith.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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I'm a Christian and what is said in that link is a bunch of bullshiite! Yes there is a hell, but it will be reserved for those who profess to believe in Christ but choose not to follow his teachings. God will *not* judge or condemn those who don't know or don't believe. Everyone will get a chance to accept or reject Christ, either in this life or the next.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
ahhz wrote:
God will *not* judge or condemn
I read that a little too fast and thought you typed "condom"...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I think Microsoft bought Christianity, and after firing all of the original employees, they made conversion impossible by introducing a closed-source proprietary belief system.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001ROTFLMAO! John, thanks for making me laugh! Your saucy-ness is a kick-ass breath of fresh air!
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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ROTFLMAO! John, thanks for making me laugh! Your saucy-ness is a kick-ass breath of fresh air!
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
I'm practicing object mocking. It seems that the practice of invoking things that don't really exist carries over into the world of software development as well. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I'm practicing object mocking. It seems that the practice of invoking things that don't really exist carries over into the world of software development as well. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I'm practicing object mocking.
LOL. It's good to be mocked once in a while. Keeps one humble.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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Hot and humid sure beats ball numbingly cold and dry. :)
-- -= Proudly Made on Earth =-
You can always cover your balls in the cold. When it's hot and sticky though there's no getting them comfortable.
BW
Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand.
-- Neil Peart -
If you think that it is "factually correct" that every single person who dies without believing in Jesus goes to be tortured forever, then you are mentally ill.
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams
:laugh: I had no idea you were a psychiatrist as well as a geek. Of course if you were you wouldn't make such a hasty diagnosis. Allow me to explain a little of how and why those who end up, by their own choice, outside of the will and presence of God will end up being tortured. Consider the company and situation in which said people will find themselves. No law, either moral or physical. All law is derived from God and without his presence it ceases to exist. Without such law you have quite literally no-thing. You are returned to the formless void. At which point you are as many people would understand it 'free'. A will entirely unrestricted except that you have nothing. All through their lives such people have been proclaiming themselves to be God and now they get the chance to prove it, or so it would seem. Into this Godless void come the embodied (yes you get a free new one to go to hell with) spirits of all those who have rejected him. Unfortunately for the puny humans, who are used to a highly organised universe designed for them to live in, they'll be there with many millions of extremely powerful spiritual beings with authority and thousands of years of practice all of whom are utterly evil and without any redeming qualities what so ever. There's no hope, nothing at all in fact, unless you create it and sustain it by your own will and authority which is one of billions and you have millions of demons who are far more powerful than you will ever be and nothing to restrain them, forever. Are you getting it yet? If this is too hard to comprehend then just think of the worst TV prison you can imagine except with no gaurds and where you can't die. You can suffer, but not die. Not even half way there but it will do as an analogy. The point being that this is nothing more than the logical consequences of a choice to be without God.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
basic orthodoxy of that religion
It isn't what Jesus taught nor the prohpets, therefore it is hardly Christian orthodoxy. It is just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo thought-up by self-serving preachers practicing priestcraft for money, influence and power.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
proceed to describe
You're like those that Isaiah describes in Isaiah 29:20-24[^]: 20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off: 21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought. 22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. 23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel. 24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
"The Judge of all the earth" profoundly disagrees with you so I really don't have to. At least you have deffered to the right authority, the Bible, even if you don't understand a word of it. I'm sorry that you have clearly had such shockingly bad biblical teaching. I'm not going to give you a sermon on salvation, I suspect it would take more than one but I'll leave you with this thought. If the ignorant and the idolators are to be pardoned anyway why exactly did Jesus die?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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:laugh: I had no idea you were a psychiatrist as well as a geek. Of course if you were you wouldn't make such a hasty diagnosis. Allow me to explain a little of how and why those who end up, by their own choice, outside of the will and presence of God will end up being tortured. Consider the company and situation in which said people will find themselves. No law, either moral or physical. All law is derived from God and without his presence it ceases to exist. Without such law you have quite literally no-thing. You are returned to the formless void. At which point you are as many people would understand it 'free'. A will entirely unrestricted except that you have nothing. All through their lives such people have been proclaiming themselves to be God and now they get the chance to prove it, or so it would seem. Into this Godless void come the embodied (yes you get a free new one to go to hell with) spirits of all those who have rejected him. Unfortunately for the puny humans, who are used to a highly organised universe designed for them to live in, they'll be there with many millions of extremely powerful spiritual beings with authority and thousands of years of practice all of whom are utterly evil and without any redeming qualities what so ever. There's no hope, nothing at all in fact, unless you create it and sustain it by your own will and authority which is one of billions and you have millions of demons who are far more powerful than you will ever be and nothing to restrain them, forever. Are you getting it yet? If this is too hard to comprehend then just think of the worst TV prison you can imagine except with no gaurds and where you can't die. You can suffer, but not die. Not even half way there but it will do as an analogy. The point being that this is nothing more than the logical consequences of a choice to be without God.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
That all sounds very exciting, but I am curious to know what makes you think it is true? Is it from personal experience, Or is it from a book? Unfortunately, many books are fiction, especially ancient mytological and religious texts. :) Quote: geek. :laugh::laugh::laugh: That is funny, I am definately not a geek.
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams
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"The Judge of all the earth" profoundly disagrees with you so I really don't have to. At least you have deffered to the right authority, the Bible, even if you don't understand a word of it. I'm sorry that you have clearly had such shockingly bad biblical teaching. I'm not going to give you a sermon on salvation, I suspect it would take more than one but I'll leave you with this thought. If the ignorant and the idolators are to be pardoned anyway why exactly did Jesus die?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
I'll ignore your insults. My understanding of the bible and Christ's teachings are far greater than you will ever know.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
If the ignorant and the idolators are to be pardoned anyway
I never said that. Neither did Christ. I only said that all will be given a chance to accept or reject Christ at some point, either in this life or the life to come. Do you think if fair or just to condemn someone to eternal damnation and hellfire simply because they died without ever having even heard the name of Jesus Christ let alone learn of his teachings? Do you realize that the extreme vast majority of all the inhabitants of the earth, through all time have died in such a condition? Do you really think that God, our Father, and the Father of all humanity would really condemn the vast majority of his children to such suffering for all eternity through no fault of their own, merely by accident of birth either in place or time? How then to make it fair for all? The only way is for all to receive the teachings and understanding of Christ (and the chance to accept or reject him) after they die if they have not received such a chance in this earthly life. That way all can be judged based upon the same criteria.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
why exactly did Jesus die
To pay the debt of sin for all sinners, ignorant or otherwise, even those who ultimately reject him.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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:laugh: I had no idea you were a psychiatrist as well as a geek. Of course if you were you wouldn't make such a hasty diagnosis. Allow me to explain a little of how and why those who end up, by their own choice, outside of the will and presence of God will end up being tortured. Consider the company and situation in which said people will find themselves. No law, either moral or physical. All law is derived from God and without his presence it ceases to exist. Without such law you have quite literally no-thing. You are returned to the formless void. At which point you are as many people would understand it 'free'. A will entirely unrestricted except that you have nothing. All through their lives such people have been proclaiming themselves to be God and now they get the chance to prove it, or so it would seem. Into this Godless void come the embodied (yes you get a free new one to go to hell with) spirits of all those who have rejected him. Unfortunately for the puny humans, who are used to a highly organised universe designed for them to live in, they'll be there with many millions of extremely powerful spiritual beings with authority and thousands of years of practice all of whom are utterly evil and without any redeming qualities what so ever. There's no hope, nothing at all in fact, unless you create it and sustain it by your own will and authority which is one of billions and you have millions of demons who are far more powerful than you will ever be and nothing to restrain them, forever. Are you getting it yet? If this is too hard to comprehend then just think of the worst TV prison you can imagine except with no gaurds and where you can't die. You can suffer, but not die. Not even half way there but it will do as an analogy. The point being that this is nothing more than the logical consequences of a choice to be without God.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Nothing you say here is supported by scripture. Absolutely nothing.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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"The Judge of all the earth" profoundly disagrees with you so I really don't have to. At least you have deffered to the right authority, the Bible, even if you don't understand a word of it. I'm sorry that you have clearly had such shockingly bad biblical teaching. I'm not going to give you a sermon on salvation, I suspect it would take more than one but I'll leave you with this thought. If the ignorant and the idolators are to be pardoned anyway why exactly did Jesus die?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
At least you have deffered to the right authority, the Bible, even if you don't understand a word of it. I'm sorry that you have clearly had such shockingly bad biblical teaching.
How curious... It would appear that you're a liar and, at the very least, a hypocrite. Tsk, tsk, tsk... You see, you claimed that you didn't abuse the forums or other members, yet, here you are doing just that. How do you reconcile your lie with this obvious truth? How is this Christian behaviour? And you're not just abusing the forums by trolling, oh no! You're abusing other members here. Liars always get caught. Always. :cool: So tell me, should I notify the administration? What is your opinion regarding this?
"All your God are belong to us."
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That all sounds very exciting, but I am curious to know what makes you think it is true? Is it from personal experience, Or is it from a book? Unfortunately, many books are fiction, especially ancient mytological and religious texts. :) Quote: geek. :laugh::laugh::laugh: That is funny, I am definately not a geek.
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams
While I doubt that you are indeed so curious and we have been down this road of 'why I believe' before It's your topic so I will indulge you. What I have given you is an explanation of my understanding of separation from God and its logical consequences. Separation from God is the primary attribute of hell. Being cast completely out of his presence is to be cast into hell. From this, human nature and the incites into the post judgement order that are present in the book of revelations one can construct this picture of what hell is and why it is that way. While it remains simply my interpretation I believe it to be accurate and derived without addition or prejudice from biblical sources. That you don't believe or place any authority in those sources is a given.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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I'll ignore your insults. My understanding of the bible and Christ's teachings are far greater than you will ever know.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
If the ignorant and the idolators are to be pardoned anyway
I never said that. Neither did Christ. I only said that all will be given a chance to accept or reject Christ at some point, either in this life or the life to come. Do you think if fair or just to condemn someone to eternal damnation and hellfire simply because they died without ever having even heard the name of Jesus Christ let alone learn of his teachings? Do you realize that the extreme vast majority of all the inhabitants of the earth, through all time have died in such a condition? Do you really think that God, our Father, and the Father of all humanity would really condemn the vast majority of his children to such suffering for all eternity through no fault of their own, merely by accident of birth either in place or time? How then to make it fair for all? The only way is for all to receive the teachings and understanding of Christ (and the chance to accept or reject him) after they die if they have not received such a chance in this earthly life. That way all can be judged based upon the same criteria.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
why exactly did Jesus die
To pay the debt of sin for all sinners, ignorant or otherwise, even those who ultimately reject him.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
ahhz wrote:
or the life to come
No. Too late, check your sources.
ahhz wrote:
Do you think if fair
I am not "The judge of all the earth". He is.
ahhz wrote:
no fault of their own
"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".
ahhz wrote:
How then to make it fair for all?
It isn't "fair for all" by your measure. It's 'just' and by Gods measure.
ahhz wrote:
even those who ultimately reject him.
No. You have no support for this. It is non biblical and denies the holiness of God.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.