Behind Enemy Lines
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Hollywood producers are slaves to "what the public wants". Whenever someone tries to put out a movie that honestly looks at what actually happened it flops. Most of the time the truth hurts and people will be more entertained by a lie, even if they know it's a lie. All sides of the world are guilty of this though. Maybe Americans are the worst for it, but I can't see a British movie about how evil the British have been through-out history going over too well in Britan. Likewise for any country. Canada is the only country on earth that has never done anything wrong in it's whole history! Ya-Hoo! GO CANADA!!!!! ...At least I saw that on TV once. ;P Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time.
kevnar wrote: Hollywood producers are slaves to "what the public wants". Exactly, my opinion as well. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Actually, I don't know a single American who believes anything Hollywood puts out. I have a pretty low opinion of Europeans (culturally and politically speaking, I'm sure they are as competent as most human populations otherwise) , but it is not based on anything from Hollywood. The irony to me is that, from my perspective, Hollywood tends more towards a Euro-centric world view than anything that could be remotely characterized as a traditionally American world view. I think most Hollywood types are just wannabe Europeans. (I have not seen Behind Enemy Lines, and do not intend to, so I cannot speak to it specifically) "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
I strongly disagree with you Stan. From personal experience I know of both Americans and Non-Americans that have been severly influenced by Hollywood. To be blunt, I sadly suspect Hollywood's literary licence has cost many American lives over the years. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Over the course of time of the Lounge (and Soapbox) there have been a number of threads that (pretty much) end up with the bagging of American's by Eurpeans/Australians/Whoevers. Often the American's say that this is just unjust, and it's just (to use an Australianism [I think]) Tall Poppy Syndrome (ie. going after the people at the top). I had come round to this believe myself, and starting to think that the American's were being unjustly bagged. But, over the weekend I just watched the movie Behind Enemy Lines and I once again realized why I have bagged American's in the past. The propaganda in this movie was amazing. Basically everyone American was good (helped people, did nice things) and everyone European was evil (caused genocide, lied, didn't care about helping a downed soldier). The one European who showed any sign of being good was a wanna-be American (he drunk Coke and listened to American rap music) and even he, at the last minute, abandoned the American. Now while Hollywood is producing such crap, I don't think any American can feel that they are getting the rough end of the pineapple... (I lived in the US for a year and a half, and I understand the American's as individuals are nice people (and that they are blessed to have such a beautiful, large (and for the most part) sparsely populated country), but as a collective psyche that produces works such as mentioned above... pah.) Have fun, Paul Westcott.
I agree that it was a pretty lame movie, save for the scene where the US plane gets shot down. But the one thing that puzzled me the most is, how did a guy with such a f*cked up nose get to be an actor? I mean, the thing looks hideous, doesn't it? Regards, Alvaro Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein
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Hollywood producers are slaves to "what the public wants". Whenever someone tries to put out a movie that honestly looks at what actually happened it flops. Most of the time the truth hurts and people will be more entertained by a lie, even if they know it's a lie. All sides of the world are guilty of this though. Maybe Americans are the worst for it, but I can't see a British movie about how evil the British have been through-out history going over too well in Britan. Likewise for any country. Canada is the only country on earth that has never done anything wrong in it's whole history! Ya-Hoo! GO CANADA!!!!! ...At least I saw that on TV once. ;P Why not throw away a dime? I throw away ten pennies all the time.
Canada is the only country on earth that has never done anything wrong in it's whole history! Are you kidding??? They unleashed Celine Dion on the world.:omg:
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Over the course of time of the Lounge (and Soapbox) there have been a number of threads that (pretty much) end up with the bagging of American's by Eurpeans/Australians/Whoevers. Often the American's say that this is just unjust, and it's just (to use an Australianism [I think]) Tall Poppy Syndrome (ie. going after the people at the top). I had come round to this believe myself, and starting to think that the American's were being unjustly bagged. But, over the weekend I just watched the movie Behind Enemy Lines and I once again realized why I have bagged American's in the past. The propaganda in this movie was amazing. Basically everyone American was good (helped people, did nice things) and everyone European was evil (caused genocide, lied, didn't care about helping a downed soldier). The one European who showed any sign of being good was a wanna-be American (he drunk Coke and listened to American rap music) and even he, at the last minute, abandoned the American. Now while Hollywood is producing such crap, I don't think any American can feel that they are getting the rough end of the pineapple... (I lived in the US for a year and a half, and I understand the American's as individuals are nice people (and that they are blessed to have such a beautiful, large (and for the most part) sparsely populated country), but as a collective psyche that produces works such as mentioned above... pah.) Have fun, Paul Westcott.
Basically it comes down to jealousy. Mexicans and Canadians have sparsely populated lands as well and they haven't accomplished very much except copying us. The rest of the world is quite bad. Although we had slavery, we didn't have genocide like in Germany or Aparthid in Africa. After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
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I strongly disagree with you Stan. From personal experience I know of both Americans and Non-Americans that have been severly influenced by Hollywood. To be blunt, I sadly suspect Hollywood's literary licence has cost many American lives over the years. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Colin Davies wrote: I sadly suspect Hollywood's literary licence has cost many American lives over the years How so? I don't watch much t.v. or go to many movies, so maybe I'm missing something, but even back home among the uneducated trailer park crowd, I don't know anyone who doesn't understand that Hollywood produces fiction, not truth. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Canada is the only country on earth that has never done anything wrong in it's whole history! Are you kidding??? They unleashed Celine Dion on the world.:omg:
Not to mention Jim Carrey X| "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Colin Davies wrote: I sadly suspect Hollywood's literary licence has cost many American lives over the years How so? I don't watch much t.v. or go to many movies, so maybe I'm missing something, but even back home among the uneducated trailer park crowd, I don't know anyone who doesn't understand that Hollywood produces fiction, not truth. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: I don't watch much t.v. or go to many movies, Maybe you are being kept pure. Stan Shannon wrote: I don't know anyone who doesn't understand that Hollywood produces fiction, not truth. There are actual idiots that believe Hollywood tales. However more likly Hollywood reinforces stereotypes of both Americans and Non-Americans. Whist I was in Baharain several years back I was astounded at the locals fixation on all things "Dallas". They continually ran repeats on TV of it, and when conversing with people, they really wanted to believe life in the Oil Country was like that, and tried to imitate it. I'm sure other more Fundamentalists were appalled by it and revolted at there "brothers" attitude. Also when Hollywood portrays Non-American groups in a stereotypical view, those groups get the feeling that is how everyday Americans feel about them. Hollywood maybe for entertainment and not education but it does influence peoples attitudes. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Colin Davies wrote: I sadly suspect Hollywood's literary licence has cost many American lives over the years How so? I don't watch much t.v. or go to many movies, so maybe I'm missing something, but even back home among the uneducated trailer park crowd, I don't know anyone who doesn't understand that Hollywood produces fiction, not truth. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
There was a study I read years ago that said every time the movie "West Side Story" was shown on TV, gang shootings went up by 30%.
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There was a study I read years ago that said every time the movie "West Side Story" was shown on TV, gang shootings went up by 30%.
I remember seeing a psychology study of people's behaviour when physically leaving different movies. People who had seen a Comedy were happy. People who had seen a Drama looked tense. People who had seen a Cowboy movie were ready to slap leather :-) etc. It was quite interesting. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Stan Shannon wrote: I don't watch much t.v. or go to many movies, Maybe you are being kept pure. Stan Shannon wrote: I don't know anyone who doesn't understand that Hollywood produces fiction, not truth. There are actual idiots that believe Hollywood tales. However more likly Hollywood reinforces stereotypes of both Americans and Non-Americans. Whist I was in Baharain several years back I was astounded at the locals fixation on all things "Dallas". They continually ran repeats on TV of it, and when conversing with people, they really wanted to believe life in the Oil Country was like that, and tried to imitate it. I'm sure other more Fundamentalists were appalled by it and revolted at there "brothers" attitude. Also when Hollywood portrays Non-American groups in a stereotypical view, those groups get the feeling that is how everyday Americans feel about them. Hollywood maybe for entertainment and not education but it does influence peoples attitudes. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
I don't think I quite buy that, Colin - if Dallas is the best example you have. If a culture is so fragile that a soap opera about spoiled rich people is going to cause so much social chaos, is there anything Hollywood could produce that woudl be safe? Obviously, that culture has problems that far transcend such simple analysis. I think as long as we strive to convince ourselves that Hollywood, or some other equally high profile U.S. institution, is the culprit, the true causes will go unaddressed. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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There was a study I read years ago that said every time the movie "West Side Story" was shown on TV, gang shootings went up by 30%.
Maybe it has something to do with musicals. I know I often feel like shooting someone after being forced to watch a musical. What happened after 'Sound Of Music'? :confused: "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Basically it comes down to jealousy. Mexicans and Canadians have sparsely populated lands as well and they haven't accomplished very much except copying us. The rest of the world is quite bad. Although we had slavery, we didn't have genocide like in Germany or Aparthid in Africa. After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
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I don't think I quite buy that, Colin - if Dallas is the best example you have. If a culture is so fragile that a soap opera about spoiled rich people is going to cause so much social chaos, is there anything Hollywood could produce that woudl be safe? Obviously, that culture has problems that far transcend such simple analysis. I think as long as we strive to convince ourselves that Hollywood, or some other equally high profile U.S. institution, is the culprit, the true causes will go unaddressed. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
Stan Shannon wrote: If a culture is so fragile that a soap opera about spoiled rich people is going to cause so much social chaos, is there anything Hollywood could produce that woudl be safe? Some cultures are very fragile, especially when transfered to modern times. The US exports an incredible amount of culture via Hollywood, and is obviously the largest producer of such culture in the world. Consider the producers of the world "Nike" or "Coke" commercials, multi-millions of dollars have been spent on market and social analysis, hundreds of psycologists involved and seemingly unlimited money to invest in creating the commercials. Now a culture only has the Quran and dogma to hold back those forces. What chance does it have? Stan Shannon wrote: the true causes will go unaddressed. It confuses me what you mean by that. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
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Basically it comes down to jealousy. Mexicans and Canadians have sparsely populated lands as well and they haven't accomplished very much except copying us. The rest of the world is quite bad. Although we had slavery, we didn't have genocide like in Germany or Aparthid in Africa. After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
Martin Marvinski wrote: we didn't have genocide like in Germany or Aparthid in Africa. Being a bit history blind are we?. http://www.ngeorgia.com/history/nghisttt.html (opens in new window) And that took me about 30 secs. to find... "It could have been worse, it could have been ME!"
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Basically it comes down to jealousy. Mexicans and Canadians have sparsely populated lands as well and they haven't accomplished very much except copying us. The rest of the world is quite bad. Although we had slavery, we didn't have genocide like in Germany or Aparthid in Africa. After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
Martin Marvinski wrote: The rest of the world is quite bad. Although we had slavery, we didn't have genocide like in Germany or Aparthid in Africa. Yeah right signs White People only have never been in the US, not recently maybe but it's been there. Also the 'testing' of the 2nd A-bomb on Nagasaki could be interpreted as genocide, there is much doubt that this bomb was needed to 'convice' the japanese to surrender. Then again I do not know any country that didn't have some black pages in it's history, but maybe that's because in my opinion 'looking away' is at least half as bad as actively being bad. It's a good thing to know that you have been to the rest of the world (or is your opinion that its bad based on something else, I hope not Hollywood :) )
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I don't think I quite buy that, Colin - if Dallas is the best example you have. If a culture is so fragile that a soap opera about spoiled rich people is going to cause so much social chaos, is there anything Hollywood could produce that woudl be safe? Obviously, that culture has problems that far transcend such simple analysis. I think as long as we strive to convince ourselves that Hollywood, or some other equally high profile U.S. institution, is the culprit, the true causes will go unaddressed. "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
There was a psychological test that I remember reading about. A group were taken in for a day and shown various things, one of which was being with warner brother characters at disney land. They were left for a few months. They (and a control group) were brought back and told to fill in a questionaire. One of the questions was to tick which characters they had seen when they were children at disneyland. A marked number of those who had been exposed to the videos thought they had actually seen the warner brothers characters at disneyland when they were children! The mind is a strange thing. Even though you might believe that you can intelligently judge what information is crap and what is real (and you might be able to do this at the time) it doesn't mean that that information doesn't seep back into the recesses of your mind to for memories that you don't have a context for. Interesting experiment eh? Does make me kind of scared. Just went and searched the web to find referrence of what I just wrote about, and shows that my memory was flawed! (I had incorrect details of the test, but the jist being the same.) Have a look at: http://www.britannica.com/magazine/article?query=causality&id=3&smode=1 http://www.dadi.org/repmemor.htm With humans being so able to be psychologically manipulated, it makes me think that possibly there should be more control of what comes about of Hollywood (and other countries movie studios, of course) and advertising agencies... Have fun, Paul Westcott.
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Basically it comes down to jealousy. Mexicans and Canadians have sparsely populated lands as well and they haven't accomplished very much except copying us. The rest of the world is quite bad. Although we had slavery, we didn't have genocide like in Germany or Aparthid in Africa. After a poor performance in London in 1899, Steinitz went insane and died a year later on August 12, 1900 at Wards Island, N.Y.
I assume that you are pining for flame? Have fun, Paul Westcott.
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Stan Shannon wrote: If a culture is so fragile that a soap opera about spoiled rich people is going to cause so much social chaos, is there anything Hollywood could produce that woudl be safe? Some cultures are very fragile, especially when transfered to modern times. The US exports an incredible amount of culture via Hollywood, and is obviously the largest producer of such culture in the world. Consider the producers of the world "Nike" or "Coke" commercials, multi-millions of dollars have been spent on market and social analysis, hundreds of psycologists involved and seemingly unlimited money to invest in creating the commercials. Now a culture only has the Quran and dogma to hold back those forces. What chance does it have? Stan Shannon wrote: the true causes will go unaddressed. It confuses me what you mean by that. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
More about me :-)
Colin Davies wrote: It confuses me what you mean by that. What I mean is the the 'true causes' lie within that culture itself, and are not caused by Hollywood. To suggest that Hollywood is somehow culpable for the disharmony that this society is pervaded by is preposterous. Obviously, you have two groups of people (at least) who wish to lead different life styles. One has latched onto the Dallas model the other feels threated by it. In the abscence of Dallas those differeces would still exist, but would simply take another form. By blaming Hollywood, you are merely addressing the symptom and not the desease. The desease is the desire of some to be free and the desire of others to control and to be controlled. Dallas merely presents a (rather bizarre) picture of freedom and liberty which the one group yearns for, and which the other group is threatened by. Such conflicts are a good thing, not a bad thing. Frankly, it makes me feel somewhat proud... "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
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Maybe it has something to do with musicals. I know I often feel like shooting someone after being forced to watch a musical. What happened after 'Sound Of Music'? :confused: "There's a slew of slip 'twixt cup and lip"
I'd probably feel like that if forced to watch a musical. I can't stand them. Ugh. X| "The laws of nature, the laws of man This volatile paradox will never stand" -Plasticity, Front Line Assembly