Windows Vista - What is everyones view on Vista?
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I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
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I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
for personal use, I love it. Businesses do not move to a new OS simply because it is available, took them 5 years to adopt XP, the same will be true for Vista.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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for personal use, I love it. Businesses do not move to a new OS simply because it is available, took them 5 years to adopt XP, the same will be true for Vista.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
ok yes i suppose you are correct hehe, i do not have vista myself as i do not have enough RAM to run it yet! however i like to hear peoples views on it
Benjamin Dodd
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I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
Yeah, my employer's current stance is that they'll just skip the whole thing - but then, they said that about XP once. We'll see - if MS comes out with a successor to Vista in the next three years, then the Vista ban will probably stick. I'm still looking forward to getting Windows 2003 Server installed on our Citrix farm; that's how slow IT is to react...
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ok yes i suppose you are correct hehe, i do not have vista myself as i do not have enough RAM to run it yet! however i like to hear peoples views on it
Benjamin Dodd
Benjamin Dodd wrote:
however i like to hear peoples views on it
I could actually care less about Vista. Got some nice things, but not enough budget/$$$/time to warrant having clients dump XP for it. Too much upgrade would be required for them, and it took alot of time to get them to adopt XP.
"The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" - anonymous, found in Uncle John's Bathroom Reader
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ok yes i suppose you are correct hehe, i do not have vista myself as i do not have enough RAM to run it yet! however i like to hear peoples views on it
Benjamin Dodd
Im not gonna switch to vista, because i dont being locked out, what ive heard, vista is like an os that assumes the user at they keyboard might be a virus, like that for a user to use certain functions of cmd you have to re-login and stuff. I also dont like all those other add-on services and all, i use windows xp sp1, because it doesnt have sp2, which adds loads of pointless services that make you feel secure and and just give the user less control. The user should decide over the system not the opposite, i think that is what vista is coming close to doing.
//Johannes
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I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
Just ordered a new work laptop but was told I can't have Vista because the disk encryption software our laptops must run isn't compatible. Guess I will have to stick with using Vista on VMWare to test my applications.
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy.
The Rob Blog -
I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
The thing is, most businesses wouldn't pay for a new OS, they don't need it. They will get it with hardware at some point. I don't love it, but it seems OK, nothing exciting, but not a total disaster.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Im not gonna switch to vista, because i dont being locked out, what ive heard, vista is like an os that assumes the user at they keyboard might be a virus, like that for a user to use certain functions of cmd you have to re-login and stuff. I also dont like all those other add-on services and all, i use windows xp sp1, because it doesnt have sp2, which adds loads of pointless services that make you feel secure and and just give the user less control. The user should decide over the system not the opposite, i think that is what vista is coming close to doing.
//Johannes
Johpoke wrote:
what ive heard
Change who you are listening to because they are feeding you incorrect information.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
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I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
Its crap. I say that in all seiousness from the perspective of a driver developer. The PnP manager is slow, very, very slow. Its ability to recognise hardware is also seriously impared compared to XP. We have a lot of trouble with our cards (PC cards , some with USB OHCIs and some with FPGAs, PCI Express and PC Minicards). I have one machine, a Dell D610. The only card it recognises running Vista is the FPGA PC card. A USB PC card is just unrecognised by the system. If I reghost it with XP or 2K everything is fine. Actualy first, I had to rename one of the system drivers, gtipc21.sys, because it BSDed everytime a PC card was inserted. In 64 bit guise, on an Acer Ferrari, it also fails to read USB descriptors correctly. I dont know why it i so bad, it should be better than XP. It is almost impossible to imagine an OS getting worse after 6 years of work, however, some of it (Ndis, RAS I know for sure) was written in India, and, one has to wonder if they are capable of the same quality of work as the West. (I have had reports of poor quality SW coming out of India from other companies)
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Johpoke wrote:
what ive heard
Change who you are listening to because they are feeding you incorrect information.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkHe is correct in thazt user access control constantly requests permission for many actions even when logged in as an admin. This can be turned off of course, and I do. I also set the shell up so its like 2K, turn off aero, side bar, and any other crap that'll slow down the PC.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Yeah, my employer's current stance is that they'll just skip the whole thing - but then, they said that about XP once. We'll see - if MS comes out with a successor to Vista in the next three years, then the Vista ban will probably stick. I'm still looking forward to getting Windows 2003 Server installed on our Citrix farm; that's how slow IT is to react...
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He is correct in thazt user access control constantly requests permission for many actions even when logged in as an admin. This can be turned off of course, and I do. I also set the shell up so its like 2K, turn off aero, side bar, and any other crap that'll slow down the PC.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
He is correct in thazt user access control constantly requests permission for many actions even when logged in as an admin
Yes, but that is not what he said. At no point does a user need to re-login, even with UAC. The closest is when an admin may need to authorise an action when a user is logged on. As to add-on services (the reason he doesn't use Windows XP SP2), I can't think of a single one that you can't opt not to use.
fat_boy wrote:
turn off aero, side bar, and any other crap that'll slow down the PC.
I've run it both with and without and did not notice any performance difference at all. :confused:
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
Its crap. I say that in all seiousness from the perspective of a driver developer. The PnP manager is slow, very, very slow. Its ability to recognise hardware is also seriously impared compared to XP. We have a lot of trouble with our cards (PC cards , some with USB OHCIs and some with FPGAs, PCI Express and PC Minicards). I have one machine, a Dell D610. The only card it recognises running Vista is the FPGA PC card. A USB PC card is just unrecognised by the system. If I reghost it with XP or 2K everything is fine. Actualy first, I had to rename one of the system drivers, gtipc21.sys, because it BSDed everytime a PC card was inserted. In 64 bit guise, on an Acer Ferrari, it also fails to read USB descriptors correctly. I dont know why it i so bad, it should be better than XP. It is almost impossible to imagine an OS getting worse after 6 years of work, however, some of it (Ndis, RAS I know for sure) was written in India, and, one has to wonder if they are capable of the same quality of work as the West. (I have had reports of poor quality SW coming out of India from other companies)
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
Yea, all the kernel/driver levels are gonna be a pain. Its nice that windows xp can use win2k drivers, but it seems that all drivers for xp will have to be re-designed for vista.. My friend was once installing the winxp drivers on a vista system for a pcmcia wifi card(new one), everything seemed to work, then it just bsod, and bsods from every start.. I cant remember if he had to re-install or something..
//Johannes
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I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
I have no intention of using Vista. Specifically, I refuse to use an OS which includes the following 'features': 1. Decides that I am now allowed to watch the media I have purchased if I don't have the right kind of monitor. Excuse me, I will decide what hardware I buy, thanks. 2. Includes provisions in the EULA that says it can shut itself down and lock me out at anytime if it suspects I'm doing something a pirate would do. Yeah, how about we let law enforcement enforce the law. I could go on... No, I will use XP until it simply won't suffice anymore and then I'll probably find a good Linux distro. Computers are our tools, not our masters, and I for one refuse to use an OS built for the purpose of controlling what I do. And before anyone goes off on the whole "Hollywood made them include that stuff" well, the only vote I have is with my dollars. If I don't like a product a company sells, or choices they've made, my only option is to not buy their stuff.
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I have no intention of using Vista. Specifically, I refuse to use an OS which includes the following 'features': 1. Decides that I am now allowed to watch the media I have purchased if I don't have the right kind of monitor. Excuse me, I will decide what hardware I buy, thanks. 2. Includes provisions in the EULA that says it can shut itself down and lock me out at anytime if it suspects I'm doing something a pirate would do. Yeah, how about we let law enforcement enforce the law. I could go on... No, I will use XP until it simply won't suffice anymore and then I'll probably find a good Linux distro. Computers are our tools, not our masters, and I for one refuse to use an OS built for the purpose of controlling what I do. And before anyone goes off on the whole "Hollywood made them include that stuff" well, the only vote I have is with my dollars. If I don't like a product a company sells, or choices they've made, my only option is to not buy their stuff.
Patrick Sears wrote:
ecides that I am now allowed to watch the media I have purchased if I don't have the right kind of monitor. Excuse me, I will decide what hardware I buy, thanks.
Yeah, that to me went too far. It may not be MS's fault that they were supposedly coerced by the media companies to include this. But, I have to draw a line somewhere.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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fat_boy wrote:
He is correct in thazt user access control constantly requests permission for many actions even when logged in as an admin
Yes, but that is not what he said. At no point does a user need to re-login, even with UAC. The closest is when an admin may need to authorise an action when a user is logged on. As to add-on services (the reason he doesn't use Windows XP SP2), I can't think of a single one that you can't opt not to use.
fat_boy wrote:
turn off aero, side bar, and any other crap that'll slow down the PC.
I've run it both with and without and did not notice any performance difference at all. :confused:
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music should programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkIf the user was loggged in as a USer he wold have to give an Admin login to run secured actions so he is correct to some extent, although XP did this too with the RunAs functionality.
David Wulff wrote:
I've run it both with and without and did not notice any performance difference at all.
Then you have some heavy graphics processing. Dont forget though, that whether you notice or not, if the kernel is chunking away producing a funky GUI, its NOT doing something else, like runing a network, or a dick scan etc.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Yea, all the kernel/driver levels are gonna be a pain. Its nice that windows xp can use win2k drivers, but it seems that all drivers for xp will have to be re-designed for vista.. My friend was once installing the winxp drivers on a vista system for a pcmcia wifi card(new one), everything seemed to work, then it just bsod, and bsods from every start.. I cant remember if he had to re-install or something..
//Johannes
Johpoke wrote:
seems that all drivers for xp will have to be re-designed for vista
Not true. Most XP drivers work on vista, the real pain are the USB drivers. Re the BSOD, download WinDbg.exe and open the crash dump created by the BSOD (either memory.dmp or a minidump). This will tell you which component crashed. Could be a system, driver, such as gtipci21.sys which I have had to rename to stop it loading because it crashed whenever a PCMCIA/PCCard was inserted.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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I heard Businesses were declining Windows Vista, from a survey - 2% had it already installed. 8% were considering gettin it and the rest do not want it. What is your view people?
Benjamin Dodd
We're already running it, but some of the software we currently use (mostly previous versions of Visual Studio) has "issues" on Vista so we're in no hurry to move wholesale. From a quality/security perspective (e.g. stopping user processes writing to the local machine hive when they feel like it and enforcing correct usage of user profiles) it is a big step forward - albeit one which will break a lot of poorly written apps (and in my experience, that's a significant proportion of them). The UI has some well thought out additions (aside from the DWM there are new common controls and MessageBox has finally been deprecated) but lacks polish in key areas (too many prompts, particularly for file operations). Don't get me started on file copying and networking though... :doh:
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