Where were you? [modified]
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
Thermite bombs in the basement are actually pretty likely compared with may of the theories.
OK....... But, are they more than 1% likely ? I've looked into that one closely and I'm pretty convinced the odds are close to zero.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
I am far from considering myself an expert but wrong is wrong, lies are lies, jet fuel doesn't melt structural steel and 40+ storey tower blocks don't collapse at free fall speed from fire and minor damage even if they've already been reported as having collapsed by the BBC and CNN script readers.
Fair enough. It's not my desire to convince you of anything, you're welcome to your worldview.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
You can call me a conspiracy theorist
Well, you obviously are one.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
but just remember that anyone who belives that Tim Osman (AKA OBL) punched a single 18" hole in the Pentagon with a Boeing 757 is one as well
OK..... It's plain that anything I believe about these events is based on weighing up different media reports. I was not there. Nevertheless, the need of some people to find conspiracy has as it's most fatal flaw, the fact that I've yet to hear a motive that is plausible for the US government to attack it's own members, on it's own soil. The stuff about taking away civil rights, to prepare for the antiChrist, or for other reasons, is just crap, IMO.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
But, are they more than 1% likely
Yes, simply because cutting thick steel columns is difficult and thermite is one of the few ways to do it. It was done, so if not thermite then how? Jet fuel doesn't cut it ( pun intended ). If you're a scientist then check Dr. Stephen Jones' analysis. His metalurgy conclusion is that evidence for thermate is conclusive. I'm certainly not qualified to argue.
Christian Graus wrote:
the need of some people to find conspiracy has as it's most fatal flaw, the fact that I've yet to hear a motive that is plausible for the US government to attack it's own members, on it's own soil.
If being able to ram through the Patriot act without it being read, carry out the already planned war on Iraq, get the Unocal pipeline through Afghanistan and cream off billions in war profiteering through Haliburton and the Carlyle group, not to mention gaurenteeing W's re-election as a War President is not enough motivation then I don't know what is. Perhaps being able to trash to the Constitution, legalize torture and imprison people wihtout trial. If you or I were both evil and insane maybe we'd value being able to do such things with impunity. TBC...
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Ahhh.... I'm thinking it would be better for Hollywood if the point was to fight the anti-Christ and save the heathens rather than simply use him as a sign to convince folks to jump on the bandwagon. ;P
That WOULD make a better movie, but probably be harder work :P There is at least one series of books that sell well out of Christian book stores that are meant to be a dramatisation of Armageddon and the rise of the AntiChrist.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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I would imagine that just as there are plenty of churches in the US that don't do that, there are plenty that, like the one I went to briefly in Australia, very much do.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I would imagine that just as there are plenty of churches in the US that don't do that, there are plenty that, like the one I went to briefly in Australia, very much do.
In America, if a church gets too political, they risk losing their tax-exempt status.
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
At the Pentagon, a plane but almost certainly not the 757 that was claimed. Much more likely a painted up military drone.
:~ :rolleyes::~ I'll bite....Why is a military drone "more likely"? What happened to that 757 that left Boston that morning? How do you explain the 757 parts strewn about the Pentagon's lawn after the crash?
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
Either way the automated air defences were deliberately stood down on Dick C's orders. That seems to be clear.
:rolleyes::~ :rolleyes: Automated air defenses? Programmed to attack civilian airliners over the United States of America? You believe that there is such a thing?
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
In Pensylvania, an unauthorised (at the highest level) shootdown seems most likely.
It was released that Cheney called Bush and Bush authorized an order to shoot down that airplane. 2 F-16's were just several minutes away from doing the doing the dirty deed...They didn't make it in time.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
It's all horrible to contemplate and much worse when you realise that senior administration figures knew it was coming and at the very least helped it along while protecting themselves and their allies.
As a supposed "Christian", what makes you exempt from declaring false witness against your neighbor?
Red Stateler wrote:
What happened to that 757 that left Boston that morning? How do you explain the 757 parts strewn about the Pentagon's lawn after the crash?
I asked this too, and it's the main question I have, beyond the 'why'.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
Thermite bombs in the basement are actually pretty likely compared with may of the theories.
OK....... But, are they more than 1% likely ? I've looked into that one closely and I'm pretty convinced the odds are close to zero.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
I am far from considering myself an expert but wrong is wrong, lies are lies, jet fuel doesn't melt structural steel and 40+ storey tower blocks don't collapse at free fall speed from fire and minor damage even if they've already been reported as having collapsed by the BBC and CNN script readers.
Fair enough. It's not my desire to convince you of anything, you're welcome to your worldview.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
You can call me a conspiracy theorist
Well, you obviously are one.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
but just remember that anyone who belives that Tim Osman (AKA OBL) punched a single 18" hole in the Pentagon with a Boeing 757 is one as well
OK..... It's plain that anything I believe about these events is based on weighing up different media reports. I was not there. Nevertheless, the need of some people to find conspiracy has as it's most fatal flaw, the fact that I've yet to hear a motive that is plausible for the US government to attack it's own members, on it's own soil. The stuff about taking away civil rights, to prepare for the antiChrist, or for other reasons, is just crap, IMO.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Remember no-one, except the odd nut ball, is saying the entire US governement or even any of it was 'officially' involved. It is after all simply a group of organisations manipulated and used as tools by a relatively small number of people. ( When it works properly those are the duly elected representatives of the people ) For example do you think Larry Silverstein was in on the whole thing? No way, they probably told him that the towers would all be evacuated before demolition and the planes would be remote control cargo planes. He was just in it for the biggest insurance fraud in history. Others did their parts from falsifying records and pre-reporting the collapse of WTC7 through to burying FBI reports and illegally shipping Bin Ladens' relatives out of the country. All for their own reasons and no doubt justifying or excusing themselves along the way. Only a handful or people if any would have had the full picture of what was planned, or known that what they were doing was part of a larger cover up. Those who planned this despicable mass murder and vast fraud are not preparing for the antiChrist. The antiChrist was never A person. Get your Dad to read what John wrote 1900+ years ago 'The spirit of antiChrist which is already in the world'. These evil people who unfortunatley wield huge power over the world today are not preparing for the antiChrist. They are antiChrist. The fact that they come dressed up as 'Christians' should not surprise anyone. How whould you expect 'wolves in sheeps clothing' to appear?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Christian Graus wrote:
But, are they more than 1% likely
Yes, simply because cutting thick steel columns is difficult and thermite is one of the few ways to do it. It was done, so if not thermite then how? Jet fuel doesn't cut it ( pun intended ). If you're a scientist then check Dr. Stephen Jones' analysis. His metalurgy conclusion is that evidence for thermate is conclusive. I'm certainly not qualified to argue.
Christian Graus wrote:
the need of some people to find conspiracy has as it's most fatal flaw, the fact that I've yet to hear a motive that is plausible for the US government to attack it's own members, on it's own soil.
If being able to ram through the Patriot act without it being read, carry out the already planned war on Iraq, get the Unocal pipeline through Afghanistan and cream off billions in war profiteering through Haliburton and the Carlyle group, not to mention gaurenteeing W's re-election as a War President is not enough motivation then I don't know what is. Perhaps being able to trash to the Constitution, legalize torture and imprison people wihtout trial. If you or I were both evil and insane maybe we'd value being able to do such things with impunity. TBC...
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
Yes, simply because cutting thick steel columns is difficult and thermite is one of the few ways to do it.
What do you mean "cutting"? What are you talking about? Why are you incapable of completing a thought?
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Remember no-one, except the odd nut ball, is saying the entire US governement or even any of it was 'officially' involved. It is after all simply a group of organisations manipulated and used as tools by a relatively small number of people. ( When it works properly those are the duly elected representatives of the people ) For example do you think Larry Silverstein was in on the whole thing? No way, they probably told him that the towers would all be evacuated before demolition and the planes would be remote control cargo planes. He was just in it for the biggest insurance fraud in history. Others did their parts from falsifying records and pre-reporting the collapse of WTC7 through to burying FBI reports and illegally shipping Bin Ladens' relatives out of the country. All for their own reasons and no doubt justifying or excusing themselves along the way. Only a handful or people if any would have had the full picture of what was planned, or known that what they were doing was part of a larger cover up. Those who planned this despicable mass murder and vast fraud are not preparing for the antiChrist. The antiChrist was never A person. Get your Dad to read what John wrote 1900+ years ago 'The spirit of antiChrist which is already in the world'. These evil people who unfortunatley wield huge power over the world today are not preparing for the antiChrist. They are antiChrist. The fact that they come dressed up as 'Christians' should not surprise anyone. How whould you expect 'wolves in sheeps clothing' to appear?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Did you know that you're schizophrenic?
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Its the 11th of Sept here at the moment and I thought it would be interesting to see where everyone was on this day 6 years ago when you heard about the attacks in the US I was here[^] on a surfing trip with a mate, its was late at night and we we're sitting up waiting for some other friends to drive up from Sydney. We'd both fallen asleap while watching the telly when someone called to tell us what was happening. We saw the second aircraft crash into the building and stayed up most of the night watching the reports. It was very sureal to wake up too especially considering we were very very stoned and worn out from a long day of driving / surfing -- modified at 3:20 Tuesday 11th September, 2007 I really cant spell to save my life
Josh Gray wrote:
I thought it would be interesting to see where everyone was on this day 6 years ago when you heard about the attacks in the US
I was about to leave the house for work. I had a morning FoxNews show on an was about to turn the TV off when it hit. I continued to watch as the 2nd plane hit.
Mike The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Did you know that you're schizophrenic?
Which of you came up with that?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Out boating on the Norfolk Broads with my sister and pretty much missed the entire thing. Stopped in at a local shop to get bread on the way back to the hostel and was served by a woman who never looked at me once. She was just standing glued to a TV with her mouth open but I can't say I took a lot of notice at the time. Have since spent quite a lot of time studying the event and concluded that most of what we've been told about it is a lie.:(
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Its the 11th of Sept here at the moment and I thought it would be interesting to see where everyone was on this day 6 years ago when you heard about the attacks in the US I was here[^] on a surfing trip with a mate, its was late at night and we we're sitting up waiting for some other friends to drive up from Sydney. We'd both fallen asleap while watching the telly when someone called to tell us what was happening. We saw the second aircraft crash into the building and stayed up most of the night watching the reports. It was very sureal to wake up too especially considering we were very very stoned and worn out from a long day of driving / surfing -- modified at 3:20 Tuesday 11th September, 2007 I really cant spell to save my life
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Red Stateler wrote:
What happened to that 757 that left Boston that morning? How do you explain the 757 parts strewn about the Pentagon's lawn after the crash?
I asked this too, and it's the main question I have, beyond the 'why'.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
I asked this too, and it's the main question I have, beyond the 'why'.
If you get a chance, see if you can find the History Channel show I'm talking about. I don't remember the name, but it was a 2-hour long rational comparison of conspiracy theorists along with interviews of experts and eyewitnesses. What's funny is that the group of people that authored that movie up on Google Video a while back turns out to be a few unkempt early 20-somethings crammed into a 1-bedroom apartment insisting that they know better than the numerous structural engineers, demolition experts, pilots and more who addressed each of the conspiracy claims. They tracked down people who were on the seen of the Pensylvania crash site who stated they saw body parts (the conspiracy theorists claimed that nobody did). They tracked down various people that the conspiracy theorists "quoted" and the people "quoted" said they the "quotes" were taken completely out of context. They had various engineers stating that the towers fell exactly as they would have expected. etc...etc...etc...
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Its the 11th of Sept here at the moment and I thought it would be interesting to see where everyone was on this day 6 years ago when you heard about the attacks in the US I was here[^] on a surfing trip with a mate, its was late at night and we we're sitting up waiting for some other friends to drive up from Sydney. We'd both fallen asleap while watching the telly when someone called to tell us what was happening. We saw the second aircraft crash into the building and stayed up most of the night watching the reports. It was very sureal to wake up too especially considering we were very very stoned and worn out from a long day of driving / surfing -- modified at 3:20 Tuesday 11th September, 2007 I really cant spell to save my life
I was asleep :(
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Which of you came up with that?
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
Which of you came up with that?
You're confusing schizophrenia with multiple personalities disorder. Schizophrenia is "the deterioration of the human personality" and is often associated with jumbled and nonsensical speech.
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I would imagine that just as there are plenty of churches in the US that don't do that, there are plenty that, like the one I went to briefly in Australia, very much do.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find one, and you can certainly find fundamentalists who consider religion and politics to be one and the same. But the notion that there is some kind of political agenda among the rank and file church goers in the US is just rediculous. If and when you do get the average church going christian to comment to a political opinion it is typically more liberal in nature than conservative.
Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hyprocrisy is no morality at all.
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
and smell the reality
So it's your opinion that a "smallish" group within the current US administration (POTUS, VPOTUS and the entire DOD) conspired to kill thousands of innocent civilians? 1. Why? 2. How did they manage to pull it off, considering how inept they've proven to be in ALL other areas?
Mike Mullikin wrote:
So it's your opinion that a "smallish" group within the current US administration (POTUS, VPOTUS and the entire DOD) conspired to kill thousands of innocent civilians?
Yes, not because I like the idea but because it's the most reasonable explanation of the evidence that I've come accross.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
1. Why?
Allowing for the obvious fact that anyone doing this is insane and their motivations are therefore not necessarily determinable I would hazard that politicial and financial advantange along with it being part of their occult belief system. Dependening on the level of those involved. At the outside you have the Silverstein's, in for the money, cooperating but unaware of the full extent. At the next ring you have the Strausian brigade for whom killing innocent civillian American type people is an acceptable sacrifice to allow them to kill more dangerous subversive foreign people who might hate America. At least if they don't now we'll make damn sure they do soon and then we'll be justified. All ostensibly to 'protect' America but really a political power grab using reheated cold war methods of fear herding. TBC...
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
and smell the reality
So it's your opinion that a "smallish" group within the current US administration (POTUS, VPOTUS and the entire DOD) conspired to kill thousands of innocent civilians? 1. Why? 2. How did they manage to pull it off, considering how inept they've proven to be in ALL other areas?
...These may be the motivations of the useful idiots but the motivations of the core of compotent people who keep their heads down are more difficult to fathom. These are the people who got most of the US fighter aircraft moved to Northern Canada just at the right time. Organised fake highjacking exercises for the right day, supplied the names of the 19 arab patsies to the media when they weren't on any of the flight manifests, brain wiped Zacharius Moesawi to ensure he confessed but didn't say anything awkward. Buried the FBI warnings, buried the urgent warnings from the French and made sure ceratin people were definitly going to be in the WTC and others weren't on the day. These are the people who actually govern the USA and very few of their names are known. The compotent quiet, apolitical officials who actually run the offices of POTUS, VPOTUS, SOD etc. Many of them are decent people just doing their job but unfortunately no enough. There is what ammounts to a religious cult which counts many hundreds of these people as well as politicians business people and academics amongst it members. It is what is known as a 'loyalty cult' and part of what that means is that its members protect the cult above all other loyalties, including their families and their country. If you really want answers, this is where you need to look. I can't give you difinitve answers, my research is onging but if you want to carry this weight too then start with this site[^]. Personally I would strongly advise staying well out of it.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Its the 11th of Sept here at the moment and I thought it would be interesting to see where everyone was on this day 6 years ago when you heard about the attacks in the US I was here[^] on a surfing trip with a mate, its was late at night and we we're sitting up waiting for some other friends to drive up from Sydney. We'd both fallen asleap while watching the telly when someone called to tell us what was happening. We saw the second aircraft crash into the building and stayed up most of the night watching the reports. It was very sureal to wake up too especially considering we were very very stoned and worn out from a long day of driving / surfing -- modified at 3:20 Tuesday 11th September, 2007 I really cant spell to save my life
I just entered my home from office when all the news channels were telecasting the furious attacks of the different planes hitting on the World Trade Center.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage Tech Gossips
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Christian Graus wrote:
I asked this too, and it's the main question I have, beyond the 'why'.
If you get a chance, see if you can find the History Channel show I'm talking about. I don't remember the name, but it was a 2-hour long rational comparison of conspiracy theorists along with interviews of experts and eyewitnesses. What's funny is that the group of people that authored that movie up on Google Video a while back turns out to be a few unkempt early 20-somethings crammed into a 1-bedroom apartment insisting that they know better than the numerous structural engineers, demolition experts, pilots and more who addressed each of the conspiracy claims. They tracked down people who were on the seen of the Pensylvania crash site who stated they saw body parts (the conspiracy theorists claimed that nobody did). They tracked down various people that the conspiracy theorists "quoted" and the people "quoted" said they the "quotes" were taken completely out of context. They had various engineers stating that the towers fell exactly as they would have expected. etc...etc...etc...
I've seen the History Channel show mentioned and the follow up, taking it apart, exposing the conflicts of interest and contradictions amongst the 'debunkers'. The staw men put up by the programme makers which were not in fact the arguments of the people they said they were and numerous other flaws. The very poverty of journalistic integrity in the debunking effort from the History Channel, PBS Nova (blatently incorrect CGI models), Popular Mechanics (Ignorance of basic physics) and the BBC should in itself be cause for concern to those who want to believe the official conspiracy theory. Between them the 'mistakes' of these programmes alone are enough to shred the official theory for anyone but the most blinkered. In the case of the BBC, when the guy you give the most air time to and clearly take most seriously turns out to be qualified only by being the ex-prodcuer of the X-Files, your credibility is toast before you start.
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.
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Matthew, with views such as you have demonstrated today and on other days, it is no wonder you are, and will remain, a failed wannabe politician for a waste of time political party.
Even if such drivel were to be true, at lest I refrain from meaningless personal attacks when I have no other argument.:laugh:
Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.