The next time...
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
None of us refuse to help Americans without health insurance
So how can this be achieved?
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Why are you Australians so arrogant to think your way is the only way to do anything
I never said that, in fact I think I was quite careful not to say it as I don't believe it.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
So how can this be achieved?
A. More & better jobs to make health insurance possible. B. Competition in health insurance and health care to lower costs. C. Local (and usually more efficient) charities to help those who cannot help themselves.
cp9876 wrote:
I never said that, in fact I think I was quite careful not to say it as I don't believe it.
Fair enough. If you were designing a health care / health insurance system for the US (from scratch) what would the main points be?
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Stan Shannon wrote:
our infrastructure is largely built by lowest bid private contractors.
Paid by your taxes I assume? Does that mean that you would consider a universal health insurance system run by lowest bid private contractors, i.e. government collects taxes and pays for private health insurance for all??
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
Does that mean that you would consider a universal health insurance system run by lowest bid private contractors, i.e. government collects taxes and pays for private health insurance for all??
I just said I would not.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Except neither I or the article's author say anything about the border crossings as being a problem for the US merely an indication that their system ain't perfect either.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Except neither I or the article's author say anything about the border crossings as being a problem for the US merely an indication that their system ain't perfect either.
My contribution to improve your reading skills: Hyperbole[^]: is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, and is not meant to be taken literally. It means I was deliberatively exaggerating your ridiculous claims as a form of irony, to show how they are irrelevant. ;P Hope this is not too complicated for you. You may learn it in school, someday. (BTW, this is called "sarcasm", is a figure of speech and should not be taken literally too).
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
I'm still reeling from your attitude that you'd rather someone with cancer die than have your taxes pay for medical treatment for them...
Thats your interpretation. I believe that government invovlement will ultimately mean more people dieing from cancer rather than fewer. You're the one who would rather see people did from cancer than relent on your political ideologies.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan, I'd say you're the one stretching your politics to fit this situation.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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_Damian S_ wrote:
Your mate Stan is on record saying he'd rather people with cancer die than be supplied with treatment by the government... sounds a lot like a refusal to me...
Stan also speaks about growing up dirt poor and having the community come together to help each other through hard times.
Indeed. I just assume people are sick (no pun intended) of hearing that story.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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I love watching soapbox reasoning - find the worst example of something with a similar name and tear it to pieces, therefore proving your point. Using this 'reasoning' one can 'prove' many things: Republics are bad (Saddam led the Republic of Iraq) Republicans are bad (insert your favourite Republican loon here) Democrats are bad (insert your favourite Democrat loon here) Prescription Drugs are bad (insert your favourite fatal side effect / drug interaction story here) 1=2 (I'm sure I saw it on a website somewhere) ... Where is true American innovation. Why don't folks try to identify the faults in the current system and see if it could be improved? Why would Americans even consider adopting a failed system? All I see here is bigotry and selfishness - a stubborn refusal to help those without health insurance. You happily allow your taxes be spent to build infrastructure to help power your economy, to educate the masses as this helps the economy, has anyone here even considered that a healthy, educated population may bring even more economic benefits. Of course you don't have to follow any other model, but why don't you see what you can come up with? Of course, some would say that looking after those who can't help themselves should be rewarding in itself.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
All I see here is bigotry and selfishness - a stubborn refusal to help those without health insurance.
That is an absolute lie and a myth. See my reply to an earlier post [^]
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I think your view of the medical industry is fairly naive. Just some examples: We recently had a SB thread about banning ads for formula from maternity wards, and it emerged that rates of breastfeeding in the US were as low as 25%. This is clearly the 'success' of formula marketing campaigns, clearly undertaken to maximise profit when the benefits of breastfeeding are undisputed. These are the same companies that successfully marketed formula to the third world killing countless babies as mothers tried this great health innovation from the west. We now know that 90% of ulcers are caused by a bacteria, helicobacter pylori. Yet some of the biggest selling drugs are the proton pump inhibitors developed earlier. These are great for the drug companies as they are used 'for ever', but the correct antibiotic will cure the ulcer. Why are they even being marketed? There is a great tendency for doctors to prescribe anti-depressants, I don't have the numbers, but I'm sure that the US must be one of the world's largest consumers of anti-depressants. Are you really a depressed country, or simply over-prescribed? -- modified at 22:04 Wednesday 10th October, 2007
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
Sorry, none of that is a sufficient reason to nationalize our health care.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Except neither I or the article's author say anything about the border crossings as being a problem for the US merely an indication that their system ain't perfect either.
My contribution to improve your reading skills: Hyperbole[^]: is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, and is not meant to be taken literally. It means I was deliberatively exaggerating your ridiculous claims as a form of irony, to show how they are irrelevant. ;P Hope this is not too complicated for you. You may learn it in school, someday. (BTW, this is called "sarcasm", is a figure of speech and should not be taken literally too).
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
I'm still reeling from your attitude that you'd rather someone with cancer die than have your taxes pay for medical treatment for them...
Thats your interpretation. I believe that government invovlement will ultimately mean more people dieing from cancer rather than fewer. You're the one who would rather see people did from cancer than relent on your political ideologies.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're the one who would rather see people did from cancer than relent on your political ideologies
No way, and them's fighting words, mate. Sorry, could you just remind me where I spent last week again??
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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Stan Shannon wrote:
You're the one who would rather see people did from cancer than relent on your political ideologies
No way, and them's fighting words, mate. Sorry, could you just remind me where I spent last week again??
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
and them's fighting words, mate.
I'm game.
_Damian S_ wrote:
could you just remind me where I spent last week again??
I don't even remember where I spent last week.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
our infrastructure is largely built by lowest bid private contractors.
Paid by your taxes I assume? Does that mean that you would consider a universal health insurance system run by lowest bid private contractors, i.e. government collects taxes and pays for private health insurance for all??
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
Does that mean that you would consider a universal health insurance system run by lowest bid private contractors, i.e. government collects taxes and pays for private health insurance for all??
That's a prescription for guaranteed uniform minimum quality. That gets you exactly the same level of competence as the Minneapolis bridge inspectors (pronounced safe by a private, lowest bid inspection firm last year; collapsed into the Mississippi this year), or the quality of the Levees around New Orleans, or the emergency assistance delivered by FEMA. Yup, just what we need to do.
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Stan, I'd say you're the one stretching your politics to fit this situation.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
Christian Graus wrote:
Stan, I'd say you're the one stretching your politics to fit this situation.
I firmly believe that politics provides the best solution to this issue, and that it is very odd that there would be so much international attention paid American health care. I think it is seen as the greatest opportunity to finally getting the US in proper alignment with the international socialist movement.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
and them's fighting words, mate.
I'm game.
_Damian S_ wrote:
could you just remind me where I spent last week again??
I don't even remember where I spent last week.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm game.
Well, next time you are in Australia, feel free to pop around and tell me that I would rather see people with cancer die than let go of my political ideology (of which I don't particularly have one, but that's another story), and I'll happily smack you in the face for it... Since you don't remember - I'll refresh your memory for you... I spent last week away with Camp Quality - an organisation that brings fun and laughter to the lives of children living with cancer and leukaemia (and their families). Think you picked the wrong person to make (baseless) accusations about letting people die who have cancer...
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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Except neither I or the article's author say anything about the border crossings as being a problem for the US merely an indication that their system ain't perfect either.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
border crossings as being a problem for the US
No, that was humour... I recognised it...
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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Diego Moita wrote:
It means I was deliberatively exaggerating your ridiculous claims as a form of irony, to show how they are irrelevant.
Except that the hyperbole you chose was not germane to the discussion or article thus irrelevant itself.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Except that the hyperbole you chose was not germane to the discussion or article thus irrelevant itself.
:doh: Holly crap, I don't believe I really need to explain this. You are doing an huge effort to not understand anything just to save a blotched post. Give it up, man; the ship has sunk already and is in the deep bottom of the ocean. (Oh, this is a metaphor; also a figure of speech not to be taken literally). Not being "germane" (or related) is exactly what makes an hyperbole be absurd. If it were "germane" it wouldn't be absurd and therefore wouldn't be an hyperbole.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm game.
Well, next time you are in Australia, feel free to pop around and tell me that I would rather see people with cancer die than let go of my political ideology (of which I don't particularly have one, but that's another story), and I'll happily smack you in the face for it... Since you don't remember - I'll refresh your memory for you... I spent last week away with Camp Quality - an organisation that brings fun and laughter to the lives of children living with cancer and leukaemia (and their families). Think you picked the wrong person to make (baseless) accusations about letting people die who have cancer...
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
Well, next time you are in Australia, feel free to pop around and tell me that I would rather see people with cancer die than let go of my political ideology (of which I don't particularly have one, but that's another story), and I'll happily smack you in the face for it...
And if you're ever in Indiana give me a ring.
_Damian S_ wrote:
Think you picked the wrong person to make (baseless) accusations about letting people die who have cancer...
I think you're the one who did that...
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
None of us refuse to help Americans without health insurance
So how can this be achieved?
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Why are you Australians so arrogant to think your way is the only way to do anything
I never said that, in fact I think I was quite careful not to say it as I don't believe it.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
So how can this be achieved?
It is already there. Medicaid[^] may need some tweaks, but it works. As for those not covered because they make enough but choose not to buy insurance or are are between jobs, they can be addressed with an approach much less radical than scrapping everything that does work to try a Federal single payer system run by the least competent organization in the country. Note that the majority of those covered by Medicaid are still counted as "people who don't have Medical Insurance coverage". Some good Ideas on how that can be improved[^]
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_Damian S_ wrote:
Well, next time you are in Australia, feel free to pop around and tell me that I would rather see people with cancer die than let go of my political ideology (of which I don't particularly have one, but that's another story), and I'll happily smack you in the face for it...
And if you're ever in Indiana give me a ring.
_Damian S_ wrote:
Think you picked the wrong person to make (baseless) accusations about letting people die who have cancer...
I think you're the one who did that...
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I think you're the one who did that...
errrrrrrrrr Nope... I would not want it even if it meant the death of evrey single American from cancer next week. - Stan Shannon[^]
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
border crossings as being a problem for the US
No, that was humour... I recognised it...
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
-
I love watching soapbox reasoning - find the worst example of something with a similar name and tear it to pieces, therefore proving your point. Using this 'reasoning' one can 'prove' many things: Republics are bad (Saddam led the Republic of Iraq) Republicans are bad (insert your favourite Republican loon here) Democrats are bad (insert your favourite Democrat loon here) Prescription Drugs are bad (insert your favourite fatal side effect / drug interaction story here) 1=2 (I'm sure I saw it on a website somewhere) ... Where is true American innovation. Why don't folks try to identify the faults in the current system and see if it could be improved? Why would Americans even consider adopting a failed system? All I see here is bigotry and selfishness - a stubborn refusal to help those without health insurance. You happily allow your taxes be spent to build infrastructure to help power your economy, to educate the masses as this helps the economy, has anyone here even considered that a healthy, educated population may bring even more economic benefits. Of course you don't have to follow any other model, but why don't you see what you can come up with? Of course, some would say that looking after those who can't help themselves should be rewarding in itself.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
Very well said. And this bears repeating: has anyone here even considered that a healthy, educated population may bring even more economic benefits.
Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea. - Mark Twain