Charge for time spent learning or not?
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Here you go... You are a freelancer, you have an ongoing customer who gives you work every month. He needs something new developed, which is a new ground for you (needless to say it's new to the customer as well). You have to learn (read a manual/tutorial and try something out first) before you will be able to accomplish the task. You are paid an hourly rate and charge for time spent working. Should you charge for time spent learning something which you need in order to finish the task? I couldn't find almost nothing on Google, from the results of my research there are a few ways taken by different people: - some will charge the normal rate - some will lower the rate - some will not charge - some will raise the rate Lowering or not charging is understandable because you feel it would be not fair to charge the customer for something you can't do right now. He could hire somebody else, who already is familiar it and can produce results faster, right? People who charge the normal rate compare it to being an employee. Every now and then you have to improve your skills and learn a new technology you will need for the next project. But the difference I see is when you are a full time employee the boss wouldn't fire you because you didn't know something, then hire somebody else to do the job, then fire him and hire you again. ;) But freelancing is different - he can hire anybody just for this one project, can't he? People who raise the rate... Although I know what their reasoning says, I don't quite get it. ;) They say they raise the rate to scare off the customer who is forcing a project on them, where they don't know the technology and would have to learn. This supposedly is meant to protect the customer from wasting time and money. Wonder what happens when he agrees? One things is certain - as a freelancer or not, you have to make a living, you gotta earn something. So, what are your thoughts? Charge for learning or not? If so, then how? Normal rate? Lower rate? Higher rate?
Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]
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Here you go... You are a freelancer, you have an ongoing customer who gives you work every month. He needs something new developed, which is a new ground for you (needless to say it's new to the customer as well). You have to learn (read a manual/tutorial and try something out first) before you will be able to accomplish the task. You are paid an hourly rate and charge for time spent working. Should you charge for time spent learning something which you need in order to finish the task? I couldn't find almost nothing on Google, from the results of my research there are a few ways taken by different people: - some will charge the normal rate - some will lower the rate - some will not charge - some will raise the rate Lowering or not charging is understandable because you feel it would be not fair to charge the customer for something you can't do right now. He could hire somebody else, who already is familiar it and can produce results faster, right? People who charge the normal rate compare it to being an employee. Every now and then you have to improve your skills and learn a new technology you will need for the next project. But the difference I see is when you are a full time employee the boss wouldn't fire you because you didn't know something, then hire somebody else to do the job, then fire him and hire you again. ;) But freelancing is different - he can hire anybody just for this one project, can't he? People who raise the rate... Although I know what their reasoning says, I don't quite get it. ;) They say they raise the rate to scare off the customer who is forcing a project on them, where they don't know the technology and would have to learn. This supposedly is meant to protect the customer from wasting time and money. Wonder what happens when he agrees? One things is certain - as a freelancer or not, you have to make a living, you gotta earn something. So, what are your thoughts? Charge for learning or not? If so, then how? Normal rate? Lower rate? Higher rate?
Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]
What does your conscience tell you? That has to be your guide. It's no good us giving you advice if you wouldn't be morally comfortable following it. As a customer though, I wouldn't be happy paying you for something that should take 2 weeks if it actually takes 6 weeks and I end up having to pay you for it because you spent four weeks learning it. More importantly, you wouldn't be providing an optimal solution because your work wouldn't be backed up by experience, so I would be getting hit twice here. But, as I say, it's up to you to decide how you want to proceed.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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What does your conscience tell you? That has to be your guide. It's no good us giving you advice if you wouldn't be morally comfortable following it. As a customer though, I wouldn't be happy paying you for something that should take 2 weeks if it actually takes 6 weeks and I end up having to pay you for it because you spent four weeks learning it. More importantly, you wouldn't be providing an optimal solution because your work wouldn't be backed up by experience, so I would be getting hit twice here. But, as I say, it's up to you to decide how you want to proceed.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
It's no good us giving you advice if you wouldn't be morally comfortable following it.
If I won't be morally comfortable with something I will not follow it. ;) Honestly, my viewpoint is exactly the same as yours. Oh, one factor I forgot about is the usefulness of what you learn. What if the knowledge you posses by learning on this project would be useful to you on this project only? So what I want to say is you are learning something new to finish a task and then most likely never use that knowledge again. Does it change anything?
Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
It's no good us giving you advice if you wouldn't be morally comfortable following it.
If I won't be morally comfortable with something I will not follow it. ;) Honestly, my viewpoint is exactly the same as yours. Oh, one factor I forgot about is the usefulness of what you learn. What if the knowledge you posses by learning on this project would be useful to you on this project only? So what I want to say is you are learning something new to finish a task and then most likely never use that knowledge again. Does it change anything?
Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]
Pawel Krakowiak wrote:
Does it change anything?
If it was me, I'd say thanks but no thanks. Actually, we do have this situation from time to time when clients ask us to develop something in Java or Oracle because that's what they've got/been told to use. If I can't talk them round to using technology sets we're comfortable with, we will walk away. The only thing we would get by shafting the customer like this would be a bad name.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Here you go... You are a freelancer, you have an ongoing customer who gives you work every month. He needs something new developed, which is a new ground for you (needless to say it's new to the customer as well). You have to learn (read a manual/tutorial and try something out first) before you will be able to accomplish the task. You are paid an hourly rate and charge for time spent working. Should you charge for time spent learning something which you need in order to finish the task? I couldn't find almost nothing on Google, from the results of my research there are a few ways taken by different people: - some will charge the normal rate - some will lower the rate - some will not charge - some will raise the rate Lowering or not charging is understandable because you feel it would be not fair to charge the customer for something you can't do right now. He could hire somebody else, who already is familiar it and can produce results faster, right? People who charge the normal rate compare it to being an employee. Every now and then you have to improve your skills and learn a new technology you will need for the next project. But the difference I see is when you are a full time employee the boss wouldn't fire you because you didn't know something, then hire somebody else to do the job, then fire him and hire you again. ;) But freelancing is different - he can hire anybody just for this one project, can't he? People who raise the rate... Although I know what their reasoning says, I don't quite get it. ;) They say they raise the rate to scare off the customer who is forcing a project on them, where they don't know the technology and would have to learn. This supposedly is meant to protect the customer from wasting time and money. Wonder what happens when he agrees? One things is certain - as a freelancer or not, you have to make a living, you gotta earn something. So, what are your thoughts? Charge for learning or not? If so, then how? Normal rate? Lower rate? Higher rate?
Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^]
Charge. Always charge. Pull as much money out of that sucker as you can. There is no such thing as a fair price. There is only how much money the costumers is willing to pay. Just make sure the terms (price, time to be spent) is clear from the start. Then the costumer can accept or reject. So to answer your question: Charge if you think you can get away with it.
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Charge. Always charge. Pull as much money out of that sucker as you can. There is no such thing as a fair price. There is only how much money the costumers is willing to pay. Just make sure the terms (price, time to be spent) is clear from the start. Then the costumer can accept or reject. So to answer your question: Charge if you think you can get away with it.
Delphi4Ever wrote:
Pull as much money out of that sucker as you can.
Well there's one way to maintain a long lasting business relationship! :doh: It is well known that it is easier to get repeat custom from an existing customer than it is to get a new customer on board. But if you want to use the model of sucking as much out of the customer as possible then having to use that extra money in persuading a new business to be your customer then go for it.
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Charge. Always charge. Pull as much money out of that sucker as you can. There is no such thing as a fair price. There is only how much money the costumers is willing to pay. Just make sure the terms (price, time to be spent) is clear from the start. Then the costumer can accept or reject. So to answer your question: Charge if you think you can get away with it.
wrote:
costumers
:laugh: It's customer :-\
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon