Maybe there's hope yet...
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I am not say8ing I have no a moral view on the subject, just that I am not particularly interested in arguing about it. And since when does stating ones view on something become "dictating to others"?
Ilíon wrote:
"Science" isn't even *about* truth ... and, because of the need to protect 'modern evolutionary theory' from criticism, increasingly it isn't even about reason.
OK, you're a nut. Goodbye.
Fred_Smith wrote:
OK, you're a nut. Goodbye.
No. You're apparently a Science-worshipper ... and one of the quickest ways to get rid of a Science-worshipper is to point to the fact that this 'science' thingie isn't even about truth. I, on the other hand, know what I'm talking about.
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Fred_Smith wrote:
OK, you're a nut. Goodbye.
No. You're apparently a Science-worshipper ... and one of the quickest ways to get rid of a Science-worshipper is to point to the fact that this 'science' thingie isn't even about truth. I, on the other hand, know what I'm talking about.
Ilíon wrote:
and one of the quickest ways to get rid of a Science-worshipper is to point to the fact that this 'science' thingie isn't even about truth. I, on the other hand, know what I'm talking about.
Wow, you just completely demolished him. That was cruel.
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Fred_Smith wrote:
Actually my real argument is about the bad science of it. I am really not so interested in the moral argument ...
I remind you that you began your post with a moral assertion: "....that those of you that won't accept the wrongness of animal research ... " I remind you that you said to Digital_Man: "I still stand by my argument that vivisection is bad science and a reflection of a bad morality of which I do not want to be a part of." I point out to you that you want to dictate you own strange conceptions of morality onto others, all the while denying that you are attempting to do such a thing.
Fred_Smith wrote:
I am really not so interested in the moral argument - like arguing about God, it gets you nowhere.
Really? What an interesting attitude!
Fred_Smith wrote:
But science can be argued about, and there is plenty of evidence to argue that vivisection is bad science.
"Science" isn't even *about* truth ... and, because of the need to protect 'modern evolutionary theory' from criticism, increasingly it isn't even about reason. How can one argue absent reason? ========== But let us pretend that someone does actually attend to whatever argument you have (I haven't seen one presented). And let us pretend that that person's response is: "Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying, but I just don't give a shit." What will you do? How will you respond? Why, of course, by asserting another moral claim --- which you claim you're not interested in making. In fact, even now, even as you're claiming to be making no moral argument and claiming to be uninterested in making one, you are advancing a hidden moral assertion -- Your assertion is that vivisection (*) is or produces "bad science" (which assertion is not established) and therefore we *ought not* do (or allow!) vivisection. Everything important or interesting always comes down to morality, in the end. (*) How odd. "Animal research" in the first post is suddenly "vivisection" in this post.
modified on Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:31:12 AM
Ilíon wrote:
because of the need to protect 'modern evolutionary theory' from criticism
This cracks me up every time I hear it. True science doesn't care what the story is, it just wants to know what it is. Evolution is currently the best explanation for what we see in nature. There is no need to 'protect' it, and who do you image is doing the protecting anyway? Creation 'science' has done nothing but perfect their ability to turn arguments around. Science has no vested interest in making sure that the current view is preserved. Religion on the other hand has everything to loose. Science looks for answers to what we see. Creation 'science' looks to discredit any science they see as a threat to their beliefs. I don't think God ever intended for people to try to prove anything in the book scientifically any more than he wanted people to try to disprove anything in the book. Animals with a mouthful of sharp pointy teeth all ate grass before the fall. Talk about a lack of reason. But I don't remember anything in the Bible stating that all animals were herbivores, just people. And actually, I don't remember it even saying that, only that "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Ilíon wrote:
because of the need to protect 'modern evolutionary theory' from criticism
This cracks me up every time I hear it. True science doesn't care what the story is, it just wants to know what it is. Evolution is currently the best explanation for what we see in nature. There is no need to 'protect' it, and who do you image is doing the protecting anyway? Creation 'science' has done nothing but perfect their ability to turn arguments around. Science has no vested interest in making sure that the current view is preserved. Religion on the other hand has everything to loose. Science looks for answers to what we see. Creation 'science' looks to discredit any science they see as a threat to their beliefs. I don't think God ever intended for people to try to prove anything in the book scientifically any more than he wanted people to try to disprove anything in the book. Animals with a mouthful of sharp pointy teeth all ate grass before the fall. Talk about a lack of reason. But I don't remember anything in the Bible stating that all animals were herbivores, just people. And actually, I don't remember it even saying that, only that "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Go away, kiddie. This 'science' thingie you kiddies worship isn't about truth -- you've just admitted this. Now, go away. Your childishness annoys me.
By all means, don't address the issue. Wow, that was an outstanding display of creation 'science' argumentation.
Ilíon wrote:
This 'science' thingie
:confused:
Ilíon wrote:
you kiddies worship
Don't pretend to know what I worship
Ilíon wrote:
isn't about truth
You're the only one talking about 'truth'
Ilíon wrote:
you've just admitted this
Liar.
Ilíon wrote:
Now, go away
No
Ilíon wrote:
Your childishness
You're misguided view
Ilíon wrote:
annoys me
Whooptie doo
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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By all means, don't address the issue. Wow, that was an outstanding display of creation 'science' argumentation.
Ilíon wrote:
This 'science' thingie
:confused:
Ilíon wrote:
you kiddies worship
Don't pretend to know what I worship
Ilíon wrote:
isn't about truth
You're the only one talking about 'truth'
Ilíon wrote:
you've just admitted this
Liar.
Ilíon wrote:
Now, go away
No
Ilíon wrote:
Your childishness
You're misguided view
Ilíon wrote:
annoys me
Whooptie doo
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
Liar.
With all the lies he tells I guess he hasn't read this verse. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
modified on Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:01:34 PM
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By all means, don't address the issue. Wow, that was an outstanding display of creation 'science' argumentation.
Ilíon wrote:
This 'science' thingie
:confused:
Ilíon wrote:
you kiddies worship
Don't pretend to know what I worship
Ilíon wrote:
isn't about truth
You're the only one talking about 'truth'
Ilíon wrote:
you've just admitted this
Liar.
Ilíon wrote:
Now, go away
No
Ilíon wrote:
Your childishness
You're misguided view
Ilíon wrote:
annoys me
Whooptie doo
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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You've already confirmed the two statements I made. There is nothing more that needs discussed. So, go away.
So you concede. I accept your surrender. Pleasure doing business with ya.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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So you concede. I accept your surrender. Pleasure doing business with ya.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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