Gay scientists isolate 'Christian Gene'
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
[nothing, really]
You're not paying attention, Mr Mackay: either to what I said, or to the wider currents in historical reality to which I referred. Allow me to put it to you simply: "The future belongs to those who show up -- and anti-Christians, in general, are not showing up." You people are becoming so shrill of late because present reality is showing to be false the 200-year-old secularist prophesies that "religion" is going to die out. That, and the fact that the general populace are realizing that you "rationalists" are every bit as religious -- indeed, you people are akin to fideists -- as the most "fundie" of fundamentalists.
No, say something interesting!
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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:zzz: You're boring everyone. :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Well, yeah, but than she's not taking on Christians and pretending shes waging some kind of campaign against evil like the rest of you guys do - she's taking on Islam, the real McCoy. Thats completely different. If you guys were doing that, I'd be right behind you all the way (although at a good distance).
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Well, yeah, but than she's not taking on Christians and pretending shes waging some kind of campaign against evil like the rest of you guys do - she's taking on Islam, the real McCoy. Thats completely different. If you guys were doing that, I'd be right behind you all the way (although at a good distance).
An amusing reply. However, it rather misses the point that she represents a counter-example to your claim that: "Secular Humanists are not exactly into that whole "courage" thing." More generally, I would be confident that in countries like Pakistan and Iran, it is the secularists who provide most of what opposition exists to Islamic extremism. All around the world, people tend to focus on what is in their own backyard, both because that is what they care about most and because that is generally where they can have the most impact.
John Carson
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Stealing my insults is BORING! :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
Boring. Tell a joke.
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
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Stan Shannon wrote:
On the other hand, what if being homo-phobic also is not a life style choice.
Homophobia is not a lifestyle. How you live in accordance with, or in spite of your tendencies (both innate and learned) is your lifestyle.
Stan Shannon wrote:
My first innate reaction upon being made aware of the existence of homosexuality was instant revulsion. Does that mean I am genetically predisposed to be that way?
Some tendencies are from nature, some are from nurture, some are from a combination of the two. I cannot tell you why you are repulsed by homosexuality. Regardless of the reason, our feelings about homosexuality don't provide excuses for how we treat homosexuals. Do you pity people who act out racism? Or do you hold them solely accountable for their actions? Christians are called to love others. Jesus did not condone adultery when he looked with love on the woman and asked her, "where are your accusers?"
Stan Shannon wrote:
If so, is the way I was born as acceptable in a secular world as homosexuality is in a Christian one?
I don't think homosexuality is accepted by Christianity. Yes, there are pockets of Christians and some denominations that claim that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, but their doctrines on the matter fly in the face of scripture. On the whole, homosexuals tend to be ostracized by Christians. But I think you're reading into my post something that I did not intend. I in now way meant to imply that if you're born with a tendency, then acting according to that tendency is OK. Predisposition is not an excuse for behavior, rather a partial explanation. I was a liar in my youth. I preferred telling lies to owning up to my mistakes. I was one of six children, and two of us had this predisposition to falsehood. That didn't make lying OK for me, it just made it more difficult for me to tell the truth. It became a personal struggle that 4 of my siblings didn't have to deal with.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Or, do I need treatment?
If you are a Christian, then you already know the answer to this question. If we are called to love others, and this is difficult for us, then we need God's help, do we not? It starts with us realizing that we have trespassed on the law to the same extent that homosexuals those who enterta
Edmundisme wrote (to Stan Shannon):
Homophobia is not a lifestyle. How you live in accordance with, or in spite of your tendencies (both innate and learned) is your lifestyle.
I don't think you're paying attention to the context of Stan's question, nor, really, to the actual content. (Some) 'Secularists' and (some) "gay activists" like to promote the silly idea that "gays" have no choice -- and therefore bear no moral responsibility -- for living a "gay lifestyle." (Some) Others like to promote the equally silly idea that to even speak of a "gay lifestyle" is to speak literal non-sense, is merely to express "homophobia" (which, as we all know, is "bad/immoral" ... except that, according to these same people at other times, there is actually no such thing as "morality" or "immorality"). Stan's question seeks to skewer such thinking by showing its internal contradictions.
Edmundisme wrote:
If you are a Christian, ...
Perhaps he's changed his mind, but last I knew Stan didn't/doesn't claim to be a Christian. As I understand him, he's "agnostic-but-not-hostile" towards Christianity -- which stance is in contradistinction to most self-proclaimed 'agnostics,' who might as well just be honest about it and done with it and call themselves 'atheists.'
Edmundisme wrote:
So the question is, according to the scriptures, how should we treat homosexuals? How should we feel about them? How should we feel about them when they walk into our church?
But if you start talking about "feelings," then you're no longer talking about scripture and thinking. In fact, you're right back into the territory that you're incorrectly criticizing Stan about.
modified on Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:09:45 AM
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Edmundisme wrote (to Stan Shannon):
Homophobia is not a lifestyle. How you live in accordance with, or in spite of your tendencies (both innate and learned) is your lifestyle.
I don't think you're paying attention to the context of Stan's question, nor, really, to the actual content. (Some) 'Secularists' and (some) "gay activists" like to promote the silly idea that "gays" have no choice -- and therefore bear no moral responsibility -- for living a "gay lifestyle." (Some) Others like to promote the equally silly idea that to even speak of a "gay lifestyle" is to speak literal non-sense, is merely to express "homophobia" (which, as we all know, is "bad/immoral" ... except that, according to these same people at other times, there is actually no such thing as "morality" or "immorality"). Stan's question seeks to skewer such thinking by showing its internal contradictions.
Edmundisme wrote:
If you are a Christian, ...
Perhaps he's changed his mind, but last I knew Stan didn't/doesn't claim to be a Christian. As I understand him, he's "agnostic-but-not-hostile" towards Christianity -- which stance is in contradistinction to most self-proclaimed 'agnostics,' who might as well just be honest about it and done with it and call themselves 'atheists.'
Edmundisme wrote:
So the question is, according to the scriptures, how should we treat homosexuals? How should we feel about them? How should we feel about them when they walk into our church?
But if you start talking about "feelings," then you're no longer talking about scripture and thinking. In fact, you're right back into the territory that you're incorrectly criticizing Stan about.
modified on Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:09:45 AM
That's stupid and boring. :zzz:
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
Ilion, why aren't you answering me?
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
Hurry up and answer me!
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
I thought we were buddies...
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
-
Over-all, an excellent post.
Edmundisme wrote:
Are you quiet certain that sexual orientation is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I don't recall ever making that choice. At some point, I started to become very aware of women. They became tantalizing to me. I cannot fathom that you or I make choices about what we find attractive.
But here (at the very beginning) we get into a bit of confusion ... some of it intentionally fostered by the "gay lobby." The particular confusion I have in mind at the moment is the common confusion around the terms "sexual orientation" and/or "sexual preference" (and the long-term attempt to decree "sexual preference" an invalid concept). Also, I have in mind the false dichotomy set up (often intentionally and disingenuously) by asking things like "Do you believe that homosexuality is *a* choice or is it biological?" (As, for instance, here[^]) The correct understanding is choices. It is a multiplicity of choices ... both of the individual person in reacting to his/her life-events and of other persons in presenting those life-events ... which is decisive in this person being "gay" and that person being "straight."
You know what's gross?
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan