News Corp stock falling because of Ron Paul decision?
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Sounds like a great time to invest a few bucks in Fox stock... Thanks.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
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Sounds like a great time to invest a few bucks in Fox stock... Thanks.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Sounds like a great time to invest a few bucks in Fox stock... Thanks.
Actually, I was just saying the same thing to a coworker.. from a strictly financial point of view it's a good time to invest.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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Well, the decision pretty much killed any reason i might have had to watch the thing. :shrug:
Shog9 wrote:
Well, the decision pretty much killed any reason i might have had to watch the thing. :shrug:
Same here...
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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:snicker: Stan a fan of dull debates? I gotta admit, i didn't see that one coming... :suss:
Debates? Please, these staged forums presented on television are not debates. I never watch them.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Sounds like a great time to invest a few bucks in Fox stock... Thanks.
Actually, I was just saying the same thing to a coworker.. from a strictly financial point of view it's a good time to invest.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Patrick Sears wrote:
from a strictly financial point of view it's a good time to invest.
What else matters?
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
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Patrick Sears wrote:
from a strictly financial point of view it's a good time to invest.
What else matters?
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
Stan Shannon wrote:
What else matters?
Exactly why I say capitalism is a piss poor way to solve long term problems.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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Seems too good to be true, but is a rather fantastic reflection of American values, I think... http://www.nolanchart.com/article844.html[^] A better chart is the Google chart: http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NWS&hl=en[^] Personally, I think companies are more than welcome to make any advertising and programming decisions they want to. I have no problem with that and wouldn't dream of attempting to control those decisions. That said, that sort of freedom comes with a price, being that if you make a decision that is unpopular, you pay for it. I think that's what's happening with News Corp now over their decision to exclude Ron Paul from the Jan. 6 debates. There's absolutely no reason to exclude him, except that they don't like his message (e.g., they don't like the idea of small government, I suspect). Like I said, that's their prerogative. But they'll pay for it.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Is he hte only candidate being excluded, or are all the wannabes with single digit poll numbers being told to take a hike as well? Only inviting the candidates with a realistic chance of winning is SOP to keep total numbers reasonable and to avoid wasting everyones time.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
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Debates? Please, these staged forums presented on television are not debates. I never watch them.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
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Sounds like a great time to invest a few bucks in Fox stock... Thanks.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.
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Is he hte only candidate being excluded, or are all the wannabes with single digit poll numbers being told to take a hike as well? Only inviting the candidates with a realistic chance of winning is SOP to keep total numbers reasonable and to avoid wasting everyones time.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
I was kinda thinking the same thing. But I wasn't sure where he is in the polls, I haven't been watching too closely, and Paul is WAY down on my list anyway. Yeah, Paul's Poll Numbers[^] are single digit all around. Man, I wish we had a candidate worth voting for...
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Is he hte only candidate being excluded, or are all the wannabes with single digit poll numbers being told to take a hike as well? Only inviting the candidates with a realistic chance of winning is SOP to keep total numbers reasonable and to avoid wasting everyones time.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
dan neely wrote:
Only inviting the candidates with a realistic chance of winning is SOP to keep total numbers reasonable and to avoid wasting everyones time.
Did you ever consider how much time we'd save if we just elected a dictator-for-life? I mean, really, this whole "election" thing is horribly inefficient... :rolleyes:
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dan neely wrote:
Only inviting the candidates with a realistic chance of winning is SOP to keep total numbers reasonable and to avoid wasting everyones time.
Did you ever consider how much time we'd save if we just elected a dictator-for-life? I mean, really, this whole "election" thing is horribly inefficient... :rolleyes:
Did you ever consider how long and tedious it would be to give every single individual that wanted to be president their say in the debates? :rolleyes: Poles are a good indicator.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Did you ever consider how long and tedious it would be to give every single individual that wanted to be president their say in the debates? :rolleyes: Poles are a good indicator.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
Did you ever consider how long and tedious it would be to give every single individual that wanted to be president their say in the debates
Not for a minute. Why should i consider something like that? I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent my interests, not entertain me. I have this message board for that purpose. Now, if i were running some sort of entertainment network, it would be a concern for me... but then i'd have enough experience running "reality" TV shows to cut together a half-hour's worth of fights and snide remarks. And if that didn't work, i could always bring in some B-list celebrity to liven things up.
BoneSoft wrote:
Poles are a good indicator.
Of what, exactly? And before you answer, ask yourself if that "what" has any relevance whatsoever to the answer to this question: what sort of questions would you really like to see debated?
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BoneSoft wrote:
Did you ever consider how long and tedious it would be to give every single individual that wanted to be president their say in the debates
Not for a minute. Why should i consider something like that? I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent my interests, not entertain me. I have this message board for that purpose. Now, if i were running some sort of entertainment network, it would be a concern for me... but then i'd have enough experience running "reality" TV shows to cut together a half-hour's worth of fights and snide remarks. And if that didn't work, i could always bring in some B-list celebrity to liven things up.
BoneSoft wrote:
Poles are a good indicator.
Of what, exactly? And before you answer, ask yourself if that "what" has any relevance whatsoever to the answer to this question: what sort of questions would you really like to see debated?
Shog9 wrote:
I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent my interests, not entertain me.
Interesting. I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent the country's interests. Poles are a fairly good indicator of party response to candidates. Why include all the people that have very low pole responses?
Shog9 wrote:
Now, if i were running some sort of entertainment network, it would be a concern for me... but then i'd have enough experience running "reality" TV shows to cut together a half-hour's worth of fights and snide remarks.
Uh huh... And you'd exclude all the non-snide remarks. And so if Ron Paul was on the show and he wasn't snide enough, somebody would be complaining about your decision on a message board somewhere.
Shog9 wrote:
what sort of questions would you really like to see debated?
How is that relevant? And how would the list of questions change by including Ron Paul in the debate?
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Shog9 wrote:
I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent my interests, not entertain me.
Interesting. I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent the country's interests. Poles are a fairly good indicator of party response to candidates. Why include all the people that have very low pole responses?
Shog9 wrote:
Now, if i were running some sort of entertainment network, it would be a concern for me... but then i'd have enough experience running "reality" TV shows to cut together a half-hour's worth of fights and snide remarks.
Uh huh... And you'd exclude all the non-snide remarks. And so if Ron Paul was on the show and he wasn't snide enough, somebody would be complaining about your decision on a message board somewhere.
Shog9 wrote:
what sort of questions would you really like to see debated?
How is that relevant? And how would the list of questions change by including Ron Paul in the debate?
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
Interesting. I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent the country's interests.
How noble of you! Presumably then, you know what your country's interests are by reading polls, and vote accordingly, even when the poll-derived wishes of your country conflict with your own? Somehow, i have this idea that i should vote for the candidate who best represents me, and the process itself will take care of subverting my wishes where they fail to align with those of The Nation.
BoneSoft wrote:
Uh huh...
You kinda missed the sarcasm. I was outlining a situation that exists today. No worries, it wasn't important.
BoneSoft wrote:
How is that relevant? And how would the list of questions change by including Ron Paul in the debate?
How is debate relevant? Well, it probably isn't - i mean, most of these things end up as either pissing contests ("I'm more for/against X than my opponent, who is only very strongly for/against it") or opportunities for candidates to hone their favorite sound bites in preparation for the next stump speech. It's part of a grand iterative process designed to choose a candidate with just the right blend of mock-devotion to The Party's Platform and empty respect for The Opposing View. Would the addition of Ron Paul or any of the other fringe candidates change this? Maybe not... and now, we won't find out, which is kinda my whole gripe with it. We'll get exactly the debate The Party wants - no debate at all. Enjoy...
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BoneSoft wrote:
Interesting. I'm interested in seeing someone elected who will represent the country's interests.
How noble of you! Presumably then, you know what your country's interests are by reading polls, and vote accordingly, even when the poll-derived wishes of your country conflict with your own? Somehow, i have this idea that i should vote for the candidate who best represents me, and the process itself will take care of subverting my wishes where they fail to align with those of The Nation.
BoneSoft wrote:
Uh huh...
You kinda missed the sarcasm. I was outlining a situation that exists today. No worries, it wasn't important.
BoneSoft wrote:
How is that relevant? And how would the list of questions change by including Ron Paul in the debate?
How is debate relevant? Well, it probably isn't - i mean, most of these things end up as either pissing contests ("I'm more for/against X than my opponent, who is only very strongly for/against it") or opportunities for candidates to hone their favorite sound bites in preparation for the next stump speech. It's part of a grand iterative process designed to choose a candidate with just the right blend of mock-devotion to The Party's Platform and empty respect for The Opposing View. Would the addition of Ron Paul or any of the other fringe candidates change this? Maybe not... and now, we won't find out, which is kinda my whole gripe with it. We'll get exactly the debate The Party wants - no debate at all. Enjoy...
Shog9 wrote:
Presumably then, you know what your country's interests are by reading polls
No, but like I said, they are a good indicator. Short of holding an election to determine who gets to be in the election, it's a decent gauge of who has a shot and therefore who is worth spending time to listen to.
Shog9 wrote:
and vote accordingly, even when the poll-derived wishes of your country conflict with your own?
No, I vote for who best represents my views, with faith that the process ensures the best fit for the country. Forgive me for nit-picking, your comment just struck me funny the way it was worded.
Shog9 wrote:
You kinda missed the sarcasm.
So did you. Just trying to push the point that you would exclude content that though might be interesting, ultimately would not really be constructive for your purposes.
Shog9 wrote:
How is debate relevant?
No, how is your question relevant to whether or not Paul should be included. Personally, I don't care if he's there or not. I'd tend to think the more the merrier. But I can see a point to excluding those who really don't have a chance. It's not meant to be an opportunity to hear all the possible views, it's meant to choose a candidate to support. So it makes some since to concentrate on those who have a shot. But at the same time, looking at poles for different state, they differ widely. I probably wouldn't have excluded anybody, but I can see the argument.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
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Shog9 wrote:
Presumably then, you know what your country's interests are by reading polls
No, but like I said, they are a good indicator. Short of holding an election to determine who gets to be in the election, it's a decent gauge of who has a shot and therefore who is worth spending time to listen to.
Shog9 wrote:
and vote accordingly, even when the poll-derived wishes of your country conflict with your own?
No, I vote for who best represents my views, with faith that the process ensures the best fit for the country. Forgive me for nit-picking, your comment just struck me funny the way it was worded.
Shog9 wrote:
You kinda missed the sarcasm.
So did you. Just trying to push the point that you would exclude content that though might be interesting, ultimately would not really be constructive for your purposes.
Shog9 wrote:
How is debate relevant?
No, how is your question relevant to whether or not Paul should be included. Personally, I don't care if he's there or not. I'd tend to think the more the merrier. But I can see a point to excluding those who really don't have a chance. It's not meant to be an opportunity to hear all the possible views, it's meant to choose a candidate to support. So it makes some since to concentrate on those who have a shot. But at the same time, looking at poles for different state, they differ widely. I probably wouldn't have excluded anybody, but I can see the argument.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.
BoneSoft wrote:
Short of holding an election to determine who gets to be in the election, it's a decent gauge of who has a shot and therefore who is worth spending time to listen to.
No, it isn't. Are you seriously saying that the front-runners in presidential election campaigns are worth listening to? Heck, most of the time, i'd rather listen to the weather channel than subject my ears to the dross pouring from the pie*****-holes on those clowns... It's bad enough we'll have to put up with one of them as President for at least four years. Read their positions and voting history on the 'Net and leave it at that - they'll only lie to you if you let them.
BoneSoft wrote:
Just trying to push the point that you would exclude content that though might be interesting, ultimately would not really be constructive for your purposes.
I wouldn't. That's probably why i'm not running Fox. Ok, there are probably lots of better reasons why i'm not in the entertainment industry, but my penchant for long, boring conversations as a form of amusement would definitely disqualify me should all the rest fall away.
BoneSoft wrote:
But I can see a point to excluding those who really don't have a chance.
See, i think that's where we differ: in my view, he doesn't have a chance because we've convinced ourselves that voting for people who don't have a chance is a wasted vote - therefore, we say we'll vote for the popular politician who most closely matches our views. Of course, this just makes them seem even more popular, and dilutes the value of both polls and elections. It's a positive feedback system, amplifying and distorting the true wishes of the nation. In your view, this means you should swim with a strong current; in mine, it means navigation is ultimately impossible, and swimming just makes you tired and frustrated. Yeah, that was a heck of a mixed metaphor. Obviously, i'm getting tired and frustrated. ;P *pie is a rather old word, originally referring to the magpie bird which is known for its habit of collecting shiny (but usually worthless) objects.
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BoneSoft wrote:
Short of holding an election to determine who gets to be in the election, it's a decent gauge of who has a shot and therefore who is worth spending time to listen to.
No, it isn't. Are you seriously saying that the front-runners in presidential election campaigns are worth listening to? Heck, most of the time, i'd rather listen to the weather channel than subject my ears to the dross pouring from the pie*****-holes on those clowns... It's bad enough we'll have to put up with one of them as President for at least four years. Read their positions and voting history on the 'Net and leave it at that - they'll only lie to you if you let them.
BoneSoft wrote:
Just trying to push the point that you would exclude content that though might be interesting, ultimately would not really be constructive for your purposes.
I wouldn't. That's probably why i'm not running Fox. Ok, there are probably lots of better reasons why i'm not in the entertainment industry, but my penchant for long, boring conversations as a form of amusement would definitely disqualify me should all the rest fall away.
BoneSoft wrote:
But I can see a point to excluding those who really don't have a chance.
See, i think that's where we differ: in my view, he doesn't have a chance because we've convinced ourselves that voting for people who don't have a chance is a wasted vote - therefore, we say we'll vote for the popular politician who most closely matches our views. Of course, this just makes them seem even more popular, and dilutes the value of both polls and elections. It's a positive feedback system, amplifying and distorting the true wishes of the nation. In your view, this means you should swim with a strong current; in mine, it means navigation is ultimately impossible, and swimming just makes you tired and frustrated. Yeah, that was a heck of a mixed metaphor. Obviously, i'm getting tired and frustrated. ;P *pie is a rather old word, originally referring to the magpie bird which is known for its habit of collecting shiny (but usually worthless) objects.
Shog9 wrote:
See, i think that's where we differ: in my view, he doesn't have a chance because we've convinced ourselves that voting for people who don't have a chance is a wasted vote - therefore, we say we'll vote for the popular politician who most closely matches our views. Of course, this just makes them seem even more popular, and dilutes the value of both polls and elections. It's a positive feedback system, amplifying and distorting the true wishes of the nation. In your view, this means you should swim with a strong current; in mine, it means navigation is ultimately impossible, and swimming just makes you tired and frustrated.
Except that it's not really the case. Until a few months before the 04 primaries began Kerry was a noone candidate. This year the same was true of Huckabee who's became one of the 3 main contenders on the national level. I haven't been watching it as closely, but I think Edwards has done something similar on the dem side.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
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Shog9 wrote:
See, i think that's where we differ: in my view, he doesn't have a chance because we've convinced ourselves that voting for people who don't have a chance is a wasted vote - therefore, we say we'll vote for the popular politician who most closely matches our views. Of course, this just makes them seem even more popular, and dilutes the value of both polls and elections. It's a positive feedback system, amplifying and distorting the true wishes of the nation. In your view, this means you should swim with a strong current; in mine, it means navigation is ultimately impossible, and swimming just makes you tired and frustrated.
Except that it's not really the case. Until a few months before the 04 primaries began Kerry was a noone candidate. This year the same was true of Huckabee who's became one of the 3 main contenders on the national level. I haven't been watching it as closely, but I think Edwards has done something similar on the dem side.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
dan neely wrote:
Until a few months before the 04 primaries began Kerry was a noone candidate.
Was that about the time Howard Dean's campaign imploded? It's been a while now, i don't remember the sequence anymore - but it sounds about right. I didn't really follow the dems that closely last time around.
dan neely wrote:
This year the same was true of Huckabee who's became one of the 3 main contenders on the national level.
And? AFAIK, his popularity rise plots a fairly steep curve after finally getting on the radar a few months back - so he managed to jump on the scene at around the same time a good number of undecided voters were starting to make up their minds, getting almost exponentially more exposure during the last month. I suspect there's less of an obvious trend for McCain, Guliani, etc. simply because they established their bases of support earlier on. Edwards was reasonably well-known coming out of the 2004 election, and i think his poll numbers have reflected that. Obama has had a much more interesting rise, but started far enough back to have plateaued by now. We're getting into primaries now, which start to supplant polls as a feedback provider. Of course, it's anyone's game to loose - i certainly didn't mean to imply that politicians are powerless to shake voter confidence. Obama could always make a few more stupid mistakes, Clinton could start talking just a little bit more like GWB, Huckabee could stop preaching to the choir and Guliani and Romney could get into some sort of freak-out competition... but really, choking at this point comes down to one thing: making your supporters suspicious that you're a bad horse to bet on. For the next few months at least, that's all that really matters... Then it's time once again for "Our Candidate, right or wrong, when right lauded when wrong ignored". You know the drill.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
What else matters?
Exactly why I say capitalism is a piss poor way to solve long term problems.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Really? Than why do we have such tremendously more vast and diverse media resources than ever in history? I would say capitalism is serving social needs far more effectively than any other possible method one could imagine.
The only conspiracies that concern me are the ones I am completely unaware of. By the time I find out about it, its probably a done deal. Nothing in the entire universe is more useless than morality without authority. A morality free of hypocrisy is no morality at all. Freedom is not something you express with your genitals, it is something you express with your mind.