Article Voting
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
That is nonsense
Not so. I think it would be helpful in casting out the junk votes that the Univoter likes to cast. If you know the standard deviation, then you have an idea of the distribution of the votes.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
Paul Conrad wrote:
... if the weighted standard deviation is small, then the range is smaller and possibly a more true indicator. The univoter's deviation is zero, you can't get it any smaller; I am pretty sure his votes don't give a true indication of the articles' values. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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Maybe the best would be to ignore say the most extereme 20% of the votes, so the average shown would actually be the average of only 80% of the votes. When doing so, as soon as you got six votes, the lone 1 would disappear completetely. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Do you mean something like tossing out the outliers? Throw out one 1 vote and one 5 vote? There is always the possibility of getting a 1 vote or a 5 vote from a person who just doesn't know what they are voting, just some random moron :laugh:
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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Paul Conrad wrote:
... if the weighted standard deviation is small, then the range is smaller and possibly a more true indicator. The univoter's deviation is zero, you can't get it any smaller; I am pretty sure his votes don't give a true indication of the articles' values. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
That's true. I was just trying to get some ideas spinning to find a way to get a decent sample of votes that could disregard univotes. Maybe some feature the author can see a breakdown of each vote by the vote and membership level ( no revealing of the actual member being allowed )?
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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I just got done fiddling around with the idea in Excel, and it's probably best to leave the voting system the way it is :-D
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
eliminating the extremes (known as "modified Bucholtz" to some), what I explained in the message that got you started on standard deviations, is the best remedy known to me for the current anomalies and complaints, but it only works when there is a sufficient number of votes (at least 5 or so). There is no solution for avoiding the first vote, whether considered too favorable or too unfavorable. I'll add another suggestion to this thread in a separate message. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
I'll try another suggestion here: 1. add a short radio-buttoned list (with mutually exclusive items, unchecked by default), asking for the most relevant comment: - bad formatting - too short - unintelligable - irrelevant - plain wrong - fine - great 2. disable the vote button as long as nothing got checked. 3. show the percentages of the selected comments (optimization: only to the author, and the people that already voted on the article). :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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eliminating the extremes (known as "modified Bucholtz" to some), what I explained in the message that got you started on standard deviations, is the best remedy known to me for the current anomalies and complaints, but it only works when there is a sufficient number of votes (at least 5 or so). There is no solution for avoiding the first vote, whether considered too favorable or too unfavorable. I'll add another suggestion to this thread in a separate message. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Luc Pattyn wrote:
at least 5 or so
Yes. You couldn't really use the modified Bucholtz when there are too few votes. On the other hand, when you get articles where there are 50+ votes, it's pretty pointless.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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I'll try another suggestion here: 1. add a short radio-buttoned list (with mutually exclusive items, unchecked by default), asking for the most relevant comment: - bad formatting - too short - unintelligable - irrelevant - plain wrong - fine - great 2. disable the vote button as long as nothing got checked. 3. show the percentages of the selected comments (optimization: only to the author, and the people that already voted on the article). :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
I agree on that one. I don't see why people would object. There is nothing overly revealing about the voter with this approach. The radio buttons/checkboxes can then be a tool for the author to improve him/herself.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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I'll try another suggestion here: 1. add a short radio-buttoned list (with mutually exclusive items, unchecked by default), asking for the most relevant comment: - bad formatting - too short - unintelligable - irrelevant - plain wrong - fine - great 2. disable the vote button as long as nothing got checked. 3. show the percentages of the selected comments (optimization: only to the author, and the people that already voted on the article). :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
Yes this could be displayed much like the weekly poll, as a sort of article profile. That way you would know where you have to improve your article. I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
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Yes this could be displayed much like the weekly poll, as a sort of article profile. That way you would know where you have to improve your article. I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
The ANZAC wrote:
I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Only problem about that, is some idiot could fill it in with gibberish...
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
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Yes this could be displayed much like the weekly poll, as a sort of article profile. That way you would know where you have to improve your article. I only suggest one more item, Other with a textbox to write in.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
I am in favor of keeping it simple, predictable and easy to fill in. So my layout would just double the row of radio buttons: the first row would contain "Most relevant remark: " followed by the radio buttons and texts, the second row would be the actual voting row as it is now. When the viewer has voted (or is the author), I would replace the radio buttons in the first row by the current percentages. And I would not provide an "other" category; if none seem appropriate, the voter would still have to select an existing one, but he always can add a message. The net result is: - it takes almost no extra space - it does not disrupt the current layout by much - hence it should have a high acceptance High acceptance is essential, I do not want to reduce the probability a vote is cast. Voting is the primary goal, getting info as to why a low vote is cast is secondary to that. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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I am in favor of keeping it simple, predictable and easy to fill in. So my layout would just double the row of radio buttons: the first row would contain "Most relevant remark: " followed by the radio buttons and texts, the second row would be the actual voting row as it is now. When the viewer has voted (or is the author), I would replace the radio buttons in the first row by the current percentages. And I would not provide an "other" category; if none seem appropriate, the voter would still have to select an existing one, but he always can add a message. The net result is: - it takes almost no extra space - it does not disrupt the current layout by much - hence it should have a high acceptance High acceptance is essential, I do not want to reduce the probability a vote is cast. Voting is the primary goal, getting info as to why a low vote is cast is secondary to that. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
In total agreeance.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
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In total agreeance.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
:rose:
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
This month's tips: - before you ask a question here, search CodeProject, then Google; - the quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get; - use PRE tags to preserve formatting when showing multi-line code snippets.
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
I disagree. You don't always vote on an article intending it as feedback to the author. You can vote for an article as an attempt at telling others that it's good or bad. So if I see an article that is flawed (in my opinion), I might give it a 1 or a 2 so that other people are forewarned. I may not feel inclined to spend 3-4 minutes explaining why I voted low. Similarly I might see an article I really like and I might give it a 5. But there's no reason for me to post a big message praising the article and the author. The other thing is that a lot of people vote blindly. Sometimes you might find a not so useful article from a popular author that's got two dozen 5-votes within a day of posting and you can be sure that most of the votes were from people who did not read the article. It can work the other way too. If you are an unpopular Soapboxer for instance, you can expect some low votes. If you are from a commonly despised country (or your name suggests it), you might get voted down. Too many factors go into how people vote. I understand your pain, but insisting that people need to justify their votes with a message is plain ridiculous.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
I disagree. You don't always vote on an article intending it as feedback to the author. You can vote for an article as an attempt at telling others that it's good or bad. So if I see an article that is flawed (in my opinion), I might give it a 1 or a 2 so that other people are forewarned. I may not feel inclined to spend 3-4 minutes explaining why I voted low. Similarly I might see an article I really like and I might give it a 5. But there's no reason for me to post a big message praising the article and the author. The other thing is that a lot of people vote blindly. Sometimes you might find a not so useful article from a popular author that's got two dozen 5-votes within a day of posting and you can be sure that most of the votes were from people who did not read the article. It can work the other way too. If you are an unpopular Soapboxer for instance, you can expect some low votes. If you are from a commonly despised country (or your name suggests it), you might get voted down. Too many factors go into how people vote. I understand your pain, but insisting that people need to justify their votes with a message is plain ridiculous.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkBut that's exactly where the current system comes unstuck. The voting system, in my opinion, should be geared to cater for both author and reader. A reader wants to have a good article and a writer wants to be able to provide it. If an author is providing bad or flawed articles then they deserve to know. In this way there is collective improvement, the quality of articles is increased. If the author then chooses to do nothing it is at his detriment. Correct me if i'm wrong but the whole purpose of this website is collective improvement. An online community where everyone can benefit, including authors. I don't know if you read the rest of the posts or just the first one but you should, the current system we are all agreed on does not require a message just a simple radiobutton click. You Click 2 then you click 'bad formatting' or something. I don't think that's terrible difficult, it's certainly not gonna waste any precious time, and its a simple and effective way to indicate to the author where he could improve. Frankly, if an uthor has gone to the trouble of trying to provide other people with useful information, he deserves to know if, and where, he's going wrong. The worst way for people to vote is when they are voting on something negatively just because its not what they were looking for.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
But there's no reason for me to post a big message praising the article and the author
Agreed, but praise should be given where its due as should constructive criticism.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
If you are from a commonly despised country
As for this, i have personally never judged anyone on a forum based on their name or provenance and believe it is utterly detestable, yet i'm sure it occurs.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
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I disagree. You don't always vote on an article intending it as feedback to the author. You can vote for an article as an attempt at telling others that it's good or bad. So if I see an article that is flawed (in my opinion), I might give it a 1 or a 2 so that other people are forewarned. I may not feel inclined to spend 3-4 minutes explaining why I voted low. Similarly I might see an article I really like and I might give it a 5. But there's no reason for me to post a big message praising the article and the author. The other thing is that a lot of people vote blindly. Sometimes you might find a not so useful article from a popular author that's got two dozen 5-votes within a day of posting and you can be sure that most of the votes were from people who did not read the article. It can work the other way too. If you are an unpopular Soapboxer for instance, you can expect some low votes. If you are from a commonly despised country (or your name suggests it), you might get voted down. Too many factors go into how people vote. I understand your pain, but insisting that people need to justify their votes with a message is plain ridiculous.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
I may not feel inclined to spend 3-4 minutes explaining why I voted low.
Also, 3-4 minutes might not be enough, if the article really rates a 1 vote. Lately I have seen several articles where the author has not even replaced the boilerplate text. A 1 is too good for these articles - they deserve some large negative number.
Best wishes, Hans
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
Voted: 1 Reason: asdf
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
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I think that when you vote <= 3 for an article you should have to give a reason why your voting this low. These suggestions could then be passed on to the author. I'm sick of people giving me crummy votes but not telling me what they thought was wrong or where it could be better. How can you improve something if people don't tell you whats wrong?
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles
As a matter of fact, a rating of 1-2 on a *decent* article can't be justified, and it's done anyway. Accordingly, people won't give you positive feedback, because it's not about that at all. Maybe it's just my rotten idea of man, but I think people vote in that area (let's forget the very few horrible articles here on CP) for 3 reasons: - they asked too many stupid questions, expecting to get everything spoon-fed, and cannot deal with the fact that you don't see yourself as a 24-7 support center. - they have a competing article - possibly just published -, that is about to drop out from the front page because of your work. - they have severe problems that are not all related to your article. ;P I'd say the *valuable* feedback comes from people that vote in the area of upper 3s to 5s. These readers have read your article, are interested in your work and appreciate that you've put a lot of energy into your project. The intention here is not to hurt you, but to help you to improve your article (accordingly, they might well wait with their final rating if the there are a few flaws). Just my 0.02$ Cheers!
code hard @ hardcodet.net
modified on Monday, February 04, 2008 2:57:15 PM
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As a matter of fact, a rating of 1-2 on a *decent* article can't be justified, and it's done anyway. Accordingly, people won't give you positive feedback, because it's not about that at all. Maybe it's just my rotten idea of man, but I think people vote in that area (let's forget the very few horrible articles here on CP) for 3 reasons: - they asked too many stupid questions, expecting to get everything spoon-fed, and cannot deal with the fact that you don't see yourself as a 24-7 support center. - they have a competing article - possibly just published -, that is about to drop out from the front page because of your work. - they have severe problems that are not all related to your article. ;P I'd say the *valuable* feedback comes from people that vote in the area of upper 3s to 5s. These readers have read your article, are interested in your work and appreciate that you've put a lot of energy into your project. The intention here is not to hurt you, but to help you to improve your article (accordingly, they might well wait with their final rating if the there are a few flaws). Just my 0.02$ Cheers!
code hard @ hardcodet.net
modified on Monday, February 04, 2008 2:57:15 PM
There is another reason i've seen pele vote bad. They go to the article expecting one thing and because the article isn't exactly what they wanted suddenly they think its a crap article.
Please check out my articles: The ANZAC's articles