What kind of drugs are these people on? [modified]
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Trollslayer wrote:
They could put it into some kind of job creation
Unfettered free markets are the most efficient means of creating jobs. Leaving my money with me will create more real jobs than will any amount of money given to a government bureaucrat.
Trollslayer wrote:
You consider homophobia a deviance then?
Sorry,but that went right over my head. As a proud homophobe myself who has come out of the closet, I believe I was born that way. Get used to it.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
Unfettered free markets are the most efficient means of creating jobs. Leaving my money with me will create more real jobs than will any amount of money given to a government bureaucrat.
That is bull Stan. If there were no govt there would be no govt mental policy. No man on the moon, no atellites, no roads, no trains, no planes. If we all existed as standalone folks in our little empires then that is exactly what we would have.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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fat_boy wrote:
Come to Europe, just see how backwards we are!
I was referring more to 'the world' than to Europe per se. But fine, if Europe is better off than the US, great. We can stop worrying about you now. Good work.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Stan Shannon wrote:
So, you're saying that there wasn't a depression?
You write remarkably well for someone who is apparently unable to read (hint: get someone to read you my first post).
John Carson
John, you cannot possible absolve FDR for being in charge during the entirity of the great depression except for the first few years of it. The figures you posted are meaningless unless you are trying to imply that Roosevelt's policies ended the depression. They didn't. Were there jobs? Yes, there were government jobs. Was there some improvement in the GDP, yes there was some small improvment in GDP. So what? The robust economy of the 20's returned in the 40s after the era of big government interventionism had passed. Truman, if nothing else, was wise enough to let the post war economy bubble along on its own with very little effort to change it. True, there was a continuing attempt to inject Marxism into the society via policies such as the GI Bill, but it would not be until Johnson's great society again began the wholesale assault on free markets that our economy would begin to suffer once more. Now that such "social reforms" have given the Amercan socialist party (ie Democrats) a reliable voting block and they no longer need to pander to any traditional American political concerns, we are faced every election with shouting down a continuing socialistic threat to our society. Every election becomes ever more critical to those of us who refuse to abandon our Jeffersonian traditions.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Better or the same at least. The US isnt so great you know. In many respects it looks pretty backwards to us. Design, fashion, dress sense for one.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
In many respects it looks pretty backwards to us. Design, fashion, dress sense for one.
Yeah, we spend a lot of time worrying about that... :rolleyes:
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Better or the same at least. The US isnt so great you know. In many respects it looks pretty backwards to us. Design, fashion, dress sense for one.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
BTW, I work with a few people who have spent considerable time living in Europe (mainly Indians) and they routinely assure me how much they prefer living in the US to living in Europe both for social and economic reasons. I can't validate that personnally, still...
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Unfettered free markets are the most efficient means of creating jobs. Leaving my money with me will create more real jobs than will any amount of money given to a government bureaucrat.
That is bull Stan. If there were no govt there would be no govt mental policy. No man on the moon, no atellites, no roads, no trains, no planes. If we all existed as standalone folks in our little empires then that is exactly what we would have.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
If there were no govt there would be no govt mental policy. No man on the moon, no atellites, no roads, no trains, no planes. If we all existed as standalone folks in our little empires then that is exactly what we would have.
NO one is advocating 'no government'. We are advocatig minimal government. Man on the moon is a perfect example of how stupid bureaucracic managment is. Obviously government is needed to ensure transportations systems, for example, comply with easily established standards. As far as atheletics are concerned, I think it could be argued that there was more atheleticism, and music, and other culture in our society before the era of big government than afterwards.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Tis is an emotionally difficult issue, but, how did Roosavelt get the US out of recession in the 30's? By govt spending on public projects. Print the dollars and build dams and roads. Of corse the war, with its massive govt expenditure is what put the final nail in the recession of the 30's. So, is this very much diffrent? Wouldnt you rather see 14 billion pumped into the lowest level of society than see it pumped into the higher levels trough, say, arms expenditure in the Iraq war? (And backahanders to Halliburton and asorted expenditure in Iraq).
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Tis is an emotionally difficult issue, but, how did Roosavelt get the US out of recession in the 30's? By govt spending on public projects.
Actually, history suggests that that was not working, and it was really WWII that pulled us out. In any case, what the Senate is doing will insure we need the public works in the end, since they will cause the current downturn to become a full blown recession through a combination of delay and actions that increase the cost (and the deficit) without generating any quick stimulus. Roosevelt had massive unemployment as a symptom that had to be addressed. The US is presently at the lowest level of unemployment (4.9%) in modern history, so it is unlikely that the public works programs will even find people to put to work (perhaps more work for illegal aliens...). Harry Reid and his compatriots in the Senate are idiots, and even the Democrats in the House agree (they considered all the same things Reid & Co. are adding, and rejected most of them as either being inappropriate to the problem, too late in impact or too expensive).
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fat_boy wrote:
Tis is an emotionally difficult issue, but, how did Roosavelt get the US out of recession in the 30's? By govt spending on public projects.
Actually, history suggests that that was not working, and it was really WWII that pulled us out. In any case, what the Senate is doing will insure we need the public works in the end, since they will cause the current downturn to become a full blown recession through a combination of delay and actions that increase the cost (and the deficit) without generating any quick stimulus. Roosevelt had massive unemployment as a symptom that had to be addressed. The US is presently at the lowest level of unemployment (4.9%) in modern history, so it is unlikely that the public works programs will even find people to put to work (perhaps more work for illegal aliens...). Harry Reid and his compatriots in the Senate are idiots, and even the Democrats in the House agree (they considered all the same things Reid & Co. are adding, and rejected most of them as either being inappropriate to the problem, too late in impact or too expensive).
Rob Graham wrote:
and it was really WWII that pulled us out
No it was not. WWII simply forced the government to allow industry to ramp back up. That could have happend at any point from 1930 onwards. The capacity for it was there all along and nothing but purposefl government control was preventing it. The destruction of WWII left the US as the only major industrial power on the planet, which caused our economy to explode in the post WWII era.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Rob Graham wrote:
and it was really WWII that pulled us out
No it was not. WWII simply forced the government to allow industry to ramp back up. That could have happend at any point from 1930 onwards. The capacity for it was there all along and nothing but purposefl government control was preventing it. The destruction of WWII left the US as the only major industrial power on the planet, which caused our economy to explode in the post WWII era.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
WWII also drastically reduced the unemployment rate ( from 14.6% in 1940 to 4.7 by 1942, and 1.2 by 1942). Roosevelt's great public works programs had failed to reduce unemployment to below 14.3% in any year between 1933 and 1941. To that extent, WWII represented at least economic recovery, although I agree that it was the post-war status that lead to the sustained economic boom that followed.
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WWII also drastically reduced the unemployment rate ( from 14.6% in 1940 to 4.7 by 1942, and 1.2 by 1942). Roosevelt's great public works programs had failed to reduce unemployment to below 14.3% in any year between 1933 and 1941. To that extent, WWII represented at least economic recovery, although I agree that it was the post-war status that lead to the sustained economic boom that followed.
The only real economic point that WWII makes, however, is that there was massive amounts of wealth waiting to be invested and massive amounts of industrial capacity ready to absorb it. Otherwise, it would have been impossible for the US to turn on a dime and go from being a ten year old economic basket case, to a powerful engine of democracy spewing fleets of ships and planes and tanks and troops around the world. The saddest part is that if that had been allowed to happend years earliar, WWII might have never happened at all. In a world that turns 9/11 and global warming into sinister conspiracy theories about government, it is not at all out of line to speculate upon on how gleefully the left used a slight economic downturn to so completely disparage the social and economic underpennings of American culture and to infect American culture with an entirely different mindset than what it previously had so stubbornly clung to.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080203/ap_on_go_co/stimulus_jobless_benefits[^] Three to six months of extra unemployment checks will just be an excuse for people to set on their butts for an extra three to six months contributing no productivity to the economy while absorbing a substantial portion of the productivity of others. This is nothing but blatant, full blown, communism. My God I get so sick of this kind of marxist mentality. Let me spend my own goddamned money! Why is that such a complex fucking concept for the leftist to comprehend? If the unemployed want their share of it, let them get off their godddamned lazy asses and figure out something they can do for me that might make me want to give them some of my money in exchange. Its simple, it works, and it does not require a bunch of over paid sex deviants in Washington D.C. to manage!
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
modified on Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:35:27 AM
Stan Shannon wrote:
What kind of drugs are these people on?
Money?
Stan Shannon wrote:
will just be an excuse for people to set on their butts for an extra three to six months contributing no productivity to the economy while absorbing a substantial portion of the productivity of others
Is that envy, Stan? :D
Stan Shannon wrote:
let them get off their godddamned lazy asses and figure out something they can do for me that might make me want to give them some of my money in exchange
Do you want to invest in my pitchfork-sharpening and torch-oiling business? I understand your rage, but lat time I checked your economy did not suffer from "not enough lazy bums dragged to work". And if you really think that's your money, why do you use little pieces of paper guarantueed to be legal tender by a commie treasurer and his secretary?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
fat_boy wrote:
Tis is an emotionally difficult issue, but, how did Roosavelt get the US out of recession in the 30's? By govt spending on public projects.
Actually, history suggests that that was not working, and it was really WWII that pulled us out. In any case, what the Senate is doing will insure we need the public works in the end, since they will cause the current downturn to become a full blown recession through a combination of delay and actions that increase the cost (and the deficit) without generating any quick stimulus. Roosevelt had massive unemployment as a symptom that had to be addressed. The US is presently at the lowest level of unemployment (4.9%) in modern history, so it is unlikely that the public works programs will even find people to put to work (perhaps more work for illegal aliens...). Harry Reid and his compatriots in the Senate are idiots, and even the Democrats in the House agree (they considered all the same things Reid & Co. are adding, and rejected most of them as either being inappropriate to the problem, too late in impact or too expensive).
Rob Graham wrote:
and it was really WWII that pulled us out.
Isn't that "pulling out" just massive public spending going into private weapon factories? How is that economically different from: 1. give everyone money to buy a new big TV 2. Make the TV blow up after Superbowl 3. Blame it on the Germans Please explain where I go wrong:
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Stan Shannon wrote:
What kind of drugs are these people on?
Money?
Stan Shannon wrote:
will just be an excuse for people to set on their butts for an extra three to six months contributing no productivity to the economy while absorbing a substantial portion of the productivity of others
Is that envy, Stan? :D
Stan Shannon wrote:
let them get off their godddamned lazy asses and figure out something they can do for me that might make me want to give them some of my money in exchange
Do you want to invest in my pitchfork-sharpening and torch-oiling business? I understand your rage, but lat time I checked your economy did not suffer from "not enough lazy bums dragged to work". And if you really think that's your money, why do you use little pieces of paper guarantueed to be legal tender by a commie treasurer and his secretary?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
Is that envy, Stan?
Envy is the very lubricant Marxism depends on to run smoothly.
peterchen wrote:
Do you want to invest in my pitchfork-sharpening and torch-oiling business?
Nope, don't need any of that. I would like another lawn mower repair shop in my town though, if you're up for that.
peterchen wrote:
but lat time I checked your economy did not suffer from "not enough lazy bums dragged to work".
I don't want them to be dragged to work. I want them to go hungry until they get up and go of their own accord. The fact that we have millions of Mexicans pouring into our society who are having no problem finding productive work proves beyond doubt that there is no need at all for any kind of unemployment check to anyone.
peterchen wrote:
And if you really think that's your money, why do you use little pieces of paper guarantueed to be legal tender by a commie treasurer and his secretary?
Well, now, thats a damn good question. Still, regardless of who's name is on it. I worked for it, it belongs to me. Not to some guy who didn't. Otherwise, I'm little more than that guys slave.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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BTW, I work with a few people who have spent considerable time living in Europe (mainly Indians) and they routinely assure me how much they prefer living in the US to living in Europe both for social and economic reasons. I can't validate that personnally, still...
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
I work with a few people who have spent considerable time living in Europe (mainly Indians)
Which proves that 3 Indian SW engineers choose the US because of social (no racism) and ecconomic (possibly higher wages). Tell me, is their SW any good?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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fat_boy wrote:
If there were no govt there would be no govt mental policy. No man on the moon, no atellites, no roads, no trains, no planes. If we all existed as standalone folks in our little empires then that is exactly what we would have.
NO one is advocating 'no government'. We are advocatig minimal government. Man on the moon is a perfect example of how stupid bureaucracic managment is. Obviously government is needed to ensure transportations systems, for example, comply with easily established standards. As far as atheletics are concerned, I think it could be argued that there was more atheleticism, and music, and other culture in our society before the era of big government than afterwards.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
Man on the moon is a perfect example of how stupid bureaucracic managment
And yet it stimulated a technological revoloution from which I believe, YOU directly benefit.
Stan Shannon wrote:
As far as atheletics are concerned, I think it could be argued that there was more atheleticism, and music, and other culture in our society before the era of big government than afterwards.
That kind of thing is pretty minimal. Nice to have, but not earth shaking.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Tis is an emotionally difficult issue, but, how did Roosavelt get the US out of recession in the 30's? By govt spending on public projects. Print the dollars and build dams and roads. Of corse the war, with its massive govt expenditure is what put the final nail in the recession of the 30's. So, is this very much diffrent? Wouldnt you rather see 14 billion pumped into the lowest level of society than see it pumped into the higher levels trough, say, arms expenditure in the Iraq war? (And backahanders to Halliburton and asorted expenditure in Iraq).
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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All of which proves nothing except that there was no reason at all for a depression of any kind. The economy was prepared for a complete rebound all through the '30s and was prevented from doing so only by the purposeful policies of the federal government to prevent it. One might forgive the feds initial screw ups in the 1929-1933 time frame, but to continue those policies when they were so clearly misquided was a criminal act of incompetnece at the least, and at the worst an overt attempt to turn US society into something it was never intended to be - a european social welfare state. The ease with which the US ramped up for WWII proves more than anything the latent wealth and industrial capacity that was being actively suppressed by Roosevelt's administration for his own purposes in wrenching American society from Jefferson's grasp and handing it over to Karl Marx.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I work with a few people who have spent considerable time living in Europe (mainly Indians)
Which proves that 3 Indian SW engineers choose the US because of social (no racism) and ecconomic (possibly higher wages). Tell me, is their SW any good?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Tell me, is their SW any good?
Who am I to judge? :rolleyes:
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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fat_boy wrote:
Tell me, is their SW any good?
Who am I to judge? :rolleyes:
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
PS, I know 4 Indians that work in Europe; Anyway, IO have heard from quite a few that Indian SW is a bit crap. Vista being a good example of such crappiness. In fact, Vista is such a monumentall testiment to crappiness it beggars belief that it could actually be concieved as an improvement over XP! WTF? Even 2K was better then XP!
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Tis is an emotionally difficult issue, but, how did Roosavelt get the US out of recession in the 30's? By govt spending on public projects. Print the dollars and build dams and roads. Of corse the war, with its massive govt expenditure is what put the final nail in the recession of the 30's. So, is this very much diffrent? Wouldnt you rather see 14 billion pumped into the lowest level of society than see it pumped into the higher levels trough, say, arms expenditure in the Iraq war? (And backahanders to Halliburton and asorted expenditure in Iraq).
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Building projects are completely different from giving free beer money away to people who mostly don't want to work. Building projects employ people to build something useful for everybody. Nobody benifits from lower class freebees except the lower class, and that's only short term and minimal. There's no comparison there.
Try code model generation tools at BoneSoft.com.