Anti-teen device?
-
Similar to what Digital Man said. When I were young there existed places such as youth clubs, scouts, and so on where kids could congregate and have fun without causing harm or potential harm to anyone. Youth clubs were generally closed because they were expensive to run, scouting became out-of-fashion but kids still need to be catered for. Nobody caters for them consequently they make their own fun all of this without adult supervision. So they congregate around shops. Shouting, spitting, and generally making a nuisance of themselves. Shoppers can and do feel threatened by largish groups of youths, as do shopkeepers. Police are often called to break-up such groups, after a while, the Police go to their next job, and the youths re-congregate. So this continues day after day. Thus the charge of Anti-social behaviour. Kids are bored. They have no supervised activities to keep their interest and to keep them off the streets. Spending money on supervised activities will go along way to alleviate the problem but local authorities have little if none spare cash for that. Shops wishing to reduce the congregating of youths, thus protecting their businesses, do try different things. Use of sonic speakers that emit an annoying noise that apparantly only below around 25 years can hear do, to some extent, persuade youngsters to move away. But that only moves the kids away from the front of the shop to another place. The solution - give kids something to do that stops them being bored. It will cost money. It will need dedicated adults to supervise such activities.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Kids are bored. . The solution - give kids something to do that stops them being bored. It will cost money. It will need dedicated adults to supervise such activities.
They're not merely bored, as though "activities" and "social programs" are going to solve these problems. They've been *raised* to be warped entities who know that they are nothing and worth nothing. Consequently, they know that you(and I) too are nothing and worth nothing. This is not a problem which can be solved with even more materialism-based ideas; it it materialism which led (and inevitably leads) to this.
-
Megan Forbes wrote:
Large, safe green areas for kids would do much to alleviate the problems facing urban youths (and the societies living around them). Given a chance to play outdoors daily I believe most kids would grow up a lot happier. Plus they'd have a chance to run their energy out instead of using it aggressively. A healthy diet containing the nutrients needed by their developing brains would go a long way too - the kind of food you most likely had growing up in the country.
I live in a beach-side "village" in Australia. The parents are affluent and the kids don't lack for opportunities for exercise or anything else. I was talking to the owner of the local bread shop a couple of days ago. They regularly get hassled by local youths who are out and about at 2am on a regular basis. When I entered the bread shop, one of the kids who hassles them (he looked about 10) was there with his mother, who apparently knew nothing about what he gets up to. If the shop owners say anything to the kids, the kids just tell them to fuck off. There is an informal memorial by the side of the road leading out of the village where a car ran off the road, killing one of the occupants. The bread shop owner saw the four youthful occupants just before they drove off in the early hours of the morning --- all drunk. Interestingly enough, if you stop and look at the memorial, you will see (alongside photos and such) liquor bottles scattered all around. This is part of their tribute, you see, a celebration of the culture of drunkenness that led to the death. I'm sure there are lots of great kids with great parents. But some parents are doing a crappy job and it shows.
John Carson
-
Similar to what Digital Man said. When I were young there existed places such as youth clubs, scouts, and so on where kids could congregate and have fun without causing harm or potential harm to anyone. Youth clubs were generally closed because they were expensive to run, scouting became out-of-fashion but kids still need to be catered for. Nobody caters for them consequently they make their own fun all of this without adult supervision. So they congregate around shops. Shouting, spitting, and generally making a nuisance of themselves. Shoppers can and do feel threatened by largish groups of youths, as do shopkeepers. Police are often called to break-up such groups, after a while, the Police go to their next job, and the youths re-congregate. So this continues day after day. Thus the charge of Anti-social behaviour. Kids are bored. They have no supervised activities to keep their interest and to keep them off the streets. Spending money on supervised activities will go along way to alleviate the problem but local authorities have little if none spare cash for that. Shops wishing to reduce the congregating of youths, thus protecting their businesses, do try different things. Use of sonic speakers that emit an annoying noise that apparantly only below around 25 years can hear do, to some extent, persuade youngsters to move away. But that only moves the kids away from the front of the shop to another place. The solution - give kids something to do that stops them being bored. It will cost money. It will need dedicated adults to supervise such activities.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Kids are bored. They have no supervised activities to keep their interest
FFS can't they amuse themselves? Don't they have the mental faculties to come up with constructive things to do? I had no supervised activities but I filled my time and never mugged a granny or smashed a window because I was bored.
-
Johnny ² wrote:
The same (or similar) problems exist in other countries, so I don't think Englishness is the root cause.
Really, there is something quite unique about the level of stupid, brutal, thugisnhess one finds in England.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
-
Well, you just associated the hooliganism of the young with christianity. If that is true now, why was it not similarly true in the past? If christianity is the problem you are trying to imply it is, it should have been even more so when it was providing the entire cultural underpinnings of your civilization.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Well they are mostly christian is why. They tend to be white, teenage and unemployed or not at school. In a chrsitain country it's afair bet that they are, if not practicing, from christian stock. Apart from one or 2 odd cases other ethnic minorities don't see too much of this. And I've never seen or heard of a group of atheist kids doing it.
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
Are you guys in big trouble over there, or what?
Yup! Just yesterday there was a report which said that attacks by young thugs on Firemen attending calls was up! Until 2 years ago, I would never have thought that Firemen would be the target of abuse until I saw it in person. Who in their right mind attacks the men and women attending to an inferno??!!?? And then this morning on the BBC News, that muppet of a children's commissioner came out with this lefty super-liberal mumbo jumbo about how these Wasp devices infringe children's rights! He encouraged us all to engage in dialog with the thugs they're aimed at - I sent him a letter this morning explaining that those young thugs are not children, and any attempt to "engage in dialog" will more than likely see one kicked to death[^], stabbed[^] or worse[^].
martin_hughes wrote:
I sent him a letter this morning explaining that those young thugs are not children, and any attempt to "engage in dialog" will more than likely see one kicked to death[^], stabbed[^] or worse[^].
The dialog simply did not happen until it was too late.
----- You seem eager to impose your preference of preventing others from imposing their preferences on others. -- Red Stateler, Master of Circular Reasoning and other fallacies If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby. -- Unknown God is the only being who, to rule, does not need to exist. -- Charles Baudelaire
-
Well they are mostly christian is why. They tend to be white, teenage and unemployed or not at school. In a chrsitain country it's afair bet that they are, if not practicing, from christian stock. Apart from one or 2 odd cases other ethnic minorities don't see too much of this. And I've never seen or heard of a group of atheist kids doing it.
Than clearly, you have not done enough to free your civilization of the vile influence of christianity. You must keep pushing until it has been entirely irradicated. That is the only thing that can save you!
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
-
John Carson wrote:
I'm sure there are lots of great kids with great parents. But some parents are doing a crappy job and it shows.
In other words, the greatness of the parents, as parents, is questionable.
Ilíon wrote:
In other words, the greatness of the parents, as parents, is questionable.
My meaning was that some parents are great (the ones with great kids) and some parents aren't great (the ones doing a crappy job that shows).
John Carson
-
Ilíon wrote:
In other words, the greatness of the parents, as parents, is questionable.
My meaning was that some parents are great (the ones with great kids) and some parents aren't great (the ones doing a crappy job that shows).
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
My meaning was that ...
Yes it was, and what you wrote was clear in that regard (and we two actually explicitly agree on something) ... though, at the same time, I would insist that even great parents can have a kid who turns out to be worthless, just as worthless parents can have a kid who is a model citizen or even an exemplar of all that is best in human beings. But now, consider what you said just before that:
... This is part of their tribute, you see, a celebration of the culture of drunkenness that led to the death.
These problems are personal and cultural. As a *culture* we Westerners have rejected the very roots of our culture, we have rejected and despised what makes us what we are (in comparison to other cultures). Neither as individuals, nor collectively as a culture, can we have it both ways. Either every every human life has worth (and if that is so, then there must be rational reasons to support the claim/belief) or none does. We are seeing worked out the denial of the worth and dignity of humans as beings made in the image of God. The problem isn't merely a "culture of drunkenness," it is a "culture of death."
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
Are you guys in big trouble over there, or what?
Yup! Just yesterday there was a report which said that attacks by young thugs on Firemen attending calls was up! Until 2 years ago, I would never have thought that Firemen would be the target of abuse until I saw it in person. Who in their right mind attacks the men and women attending to an inferno??!!?? And then this morning on the BBC News, that muppet of a children's commissioner came out with this lefty super-liberal mumbo jumbo about how these Wasp devices infringe children's rights! He encouraged us all to engage in dialog with the thugs they're aimed at - I sent him a letter this morning explaining that those young thugs are not children, and any attempt to "engage in dialog" will more than likely see one kicked to death[^], stabbed[^] or worse[^].
martin_hughes wrote:
Just yesterday there was a report which said that attacks by young thugs on Firemen attending calls was up! Until 2 years ago, I would never have thought that Firemen would be the target of abuse until I saw it in person. Who in their right mind attacks the men and women attending to an inferno??!!??
There's an easy solution to this. Supply the firemen with handcuffs, ankle shackles, and a catapult. Once a few of those scum get used as water balloons the rest should get the message loud and clear. And even if they don't it's not like society will be any poorer for their loss.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
-
Than clearly, you have not done enough to free your civilization of the vile influence of christianity. You must keep pushing until it has been entirely irradicated. That is the only thing that can save you!
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
That's right Stan, avoid the issue.
-
That's right Stan, avoid the issue.
digital man wrote:
avoid the issue
I'm actually quite certain that I have nailed the issue with my typical laser like precision. Your civilization is crumbling all around you precisely because of the implementation of your own philosophical/political principles, yet you are such an arrogant true believer that you insist upon finding some way to blame the problem on the very source of morality that once held everything together. Quite brilliant of you actually, in a very sad and self destructive way. Buy, hey, keep it up. Don't let me stop you. Extinction is indeed an excellent cure for stupidity. Why bother to fight your enemy when you can just stand and watch them gleefully destroying themselves?
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
-
digital man wrote:
avoid the issue
I'm actually quite certain that I have nailed the issue with my typical laser like precision. Your civilization is crumbling all around you precisely because of the implementation of your own philosophical/political principles, yet you are such an arrogant true believer that you insist upon finding some way to blame the problem on the very source of morality that once held everything together. Quite brilliant of you actually, in a very sad and self destructive way. Buy, hey, keep it up. Don't let me stop you. Extinction is indeed an excellent cure for stupidity. Why bother to fight your enemy when you can just stand and watch them gleefully destroying themselves?
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
with my typical laser like precision.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
-
John Carson wrote:
My meaning was that ...
Yes it was, and what you wrote was clear in that regard (and we two actually explicitly agree on something) ... though, at the same time, I would insist that even great parents can have a kid who turns out to be worthless, just as worthless parents can have a kid who is a model citizen or even an exemplar of all that is best in human beings. But now, consider what you said just before that:
... This is part of their tribute, you see, a celebration of the culture of drunkenness that led to the death.
These problems are personal and cultural. As a *culture* we Westerners have rejected the very roots of our culture, we have rejected and despised what makes us what we are (in comparison to other cultures). Neither as individuals, nor collectively as a culture, can we have it both ways. Either every every human life has worth (and if that is so, then there must be rational reasons to support the claim/belief) or none does. We are seeing worked out the denial of the worth and dignity of humans as beings made in the image of God. The problem isn't merely a "culture of drunkenness," it is a "culture of death."
Ilíon wrote:
at the same time, I would insist that even great parents can have a kid who turns out to be worthless, just as worthless parents can have a kid who is a model citizen or even an exemplar of all that is best in human beings.
I agree...but it is unusual.
Ilíon wrote:
We are seeing worked out the denial of the worth and dignity of humans as beings made in the image of God.
Here, of course, we disagree. I actually don't think theology or philosophy have a great deal of direct influence on most people's lives; most people aren't intellectual enough for their happiness or sense of purpose to be greatly influenced by abstract things. For example, coming from a loving and stable family who insist upon "good citizen" behaviour --- or having the opposite background --- is generally a much more important influence on a person's personality and character than any views that a person may have on religious or philosophical matters. Religion or secular philosophy can have virulent effects on "practical" attitudes and thus affect practical things like family in destructive ways. They can also have positive effects --- it depends on the form they take. I do not accept that belief in the supernatural is necessary in order for society to provide a hospitable environment for good families and the like. On this point, you presumably disagree.
John Carson
-
Similar to what Digital Man said. When I were young there existed places such as youth clubs, scouts, and so on where kids could congregate and have fun without causing harm or potential harm to anyone. Youth clubs were generally closed because they were expensive to run, scouting became out-of-fashion but kids still need to be catered for. Nobody caters for them consequently they make their own fun all of this without adult supervision. So they congregate around shops. Shouting, spitting, and generally making a nuisance of themselves. Shoppers can and do feel threatened by largish groups of youths, as do shopkeepers. Police are often called to break-up such groups, after a while, the Police go to their next job, and the youths re-congregate. So this continues day after day. Thus the charge of Anti-social behaviour. Kids are bored. They have no supervised activities to keep their interest and to keep them off the streets. Spending money on supervised activities will go along way to alleviate the problem but local authorities have little if none spare cash for that. Shops wishing to reduce the congregating of youths, thus protecting their businesses, do try different things. Use of sonic speakers that emit an annoying noise that apparantly only below around 25 years can hear do, to some extent, persuade youngsters to move away. But that only moves the kids away from the front of the shop to another place. The solution - give kids something to do that stops them being bored. It will cost money. It will need dedicated adults to supervise such activities.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
The solution - give kids something to do that stops them being bored. It will cost money. It will need dedicated adults to supervise such activities.
Ditch the minimum wage laws and open up the factories. Then eliminate all monies paid to the parents of children over, say, 8 years of age. Problem solved...
But who is the king of all of these folks?
-
digital man wrote:
avoid the issue
I'm actually quite certain that I have nailed the issue with my typical laser like precision. Your civilization is crumbling all around you precisely because of the implementation of your own philosophical/political principles, yet you are such an arrogant true believer that you insist upon finding some way to blame the problem on the very source of morality that once held everything together. Quite brilliant of you actually, in a very sad and self destructive way. Buy, hey, keep it up. Don't let me stop you. Extinction is indeed an excellent cure for stupidity. Why bother to fight your enemy when you can just stand and watch them gleefully destroying themselves?
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
It seems to me that christianity is on the path to self destruction: us atheists just stand by and shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are. You, on the other hand, will do whatever you can to make me believe what you think is right regardless of whether I'd be happy doing so. How very christian of you.
-
It seems to me that christianity is on the path to self destruction: us atheists just stand by and shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are. You, on the other hand, will do whatever you can to make me believe what you think is right regardless of whether I'd be happy doing so. How very christian of you.
digital man wrote:
shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion
What! Whenever was it proud, Christianity has always been a blood-thirsty religion. How do you think that that people in the USA call themselves Americans and they are not and they call people in south America latino when they are not that either.
-
digital man wrote:
shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion
What! Whenever was it proud, Christianity has always been a blood-thirsty religion. How do you think that that people in the USA call themselves Americans and they are not and they call people in south America latino when they are not that either.
You seem to be making 2 distinct points here so I'm not sure where to go with it other than to say that all religions have been, at some time or other, at odds with their own beliefs and moral codes. That doesn't mean to say that there are not also times when they have been forces for good. Even Islam has had its moments however it has appeared to have become now to many westerners and non-muslims. As far as Yanks calling themselves Yanks and calling South Americans Latinos I have no idea what that has to do with what we were talking about.
-
Than clearly, you have not done enough to free your civilization of the vile influence of christianity. You must keep pushing until it has been entirely irradicated. That is the only thing that can save you!
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
Than clearly, you have not done enough to free your civilization of the vile influence of christianity. You must keep pushing until it has been entirely irradicated. That is the only thing that can save you!
Finally! A bout of rationality from you! :laugh:
-
It seems to me that christianity is on the path to self destruction: us atheists just stand by and shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are. You, on the other hand, will do whatever you can to make me believe what you think is right regardless of whether I'd be happy doing so. How very christian of you.
digital man wrote:
a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam.
WTF?! Dispite all the vile and evil things done by the state in its name, at its core, Christianity is one of the most gentle and innocuous belief systems on the planet. Through out most of AMerican history, the only problem government had with Christianity were all the various sects that refused violence in any form, so we had to accomodate their lame "concientious objector" status. What a horrible fucking legacy! Christianity is not allowing itself to be displaced, it has been under one of the most direct and purposeful social assaults in recorded history. Western governments have bent over backwards for those who were "offended" by some kind of biblical reference in the name of the Marxist concotion of "separation of church and state" Christianity has been worn done to a hard core nub of fundamentalist true believers using every political means possible to survive against humanist hostility, and even that is used as a rationale that the assault must continue unabatted.
digital man wrote:
The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are.
No, that isn't the difference between us at all. I fully embrace that principle. All westerners do. Even Christians. It is at the heart of our civilization. It is what defines being a citizen of a liberal democracy. The difference between you and I is that you think that the "law of the land" should be carefully guarded from anyone other than those who share your own beliefs. The notion that people of religious faith, the common people, should be allowed to participate in how those laws are defined, based upon their own moral perspectives, is utterly anathema to you. Your "law of the land" is a dictatorial manifest jealously guarded by a self defined intellectual elite of humanist true believers.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization