Anti-teen device?
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digital man wrote:
avoid the issue
I'm actually quite certain that I have nailed the issue with my typical laser like precision. Your civilization is crumbling all around you precisely because of the implementation of your own philosophical/political principles, yet you are such an arrogant true believer that you insist upon finding some way to blame the problem on the very source of morality that once held everything together. Quite brilliant of you actually, in a very sad and self destructive way. Buy, hey, keep it up. Don't let me stop you. Extinction is indeed an excellent cure for stupidity. Why bother to fight your enemy when you can just stand and watch them gleefully destroying themselves?
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
with my typical laser like precision.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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John Carson wrote:
My meaning was that ...
Yes it was, and what you wrote was clear in that regard (and we two actually explicitly agree on something) ... though, at the same time, I would insist that even great parents can have a kid who turns out to be worthless, just as worthless parents can have a kid who is a model citizen or even an exemplar of all that is best in human beings. But now, consider what you said just before that:
... This is part of their tribute, you see, a celebration of the culture of drunkenness that led to the death.
These problems are personal and cultural. As a *culture* we Westerners have rejected the very roots of our culture, we have rejected and despised what makes us what we are (in comparison to other cultures). Neither as individuals, nor collectively as a culture, can we have it both ways. Either every every human life has worth (and if that is so, then there must be rational reasons to support the claim/belief) or none does. We are seeing worked out the denial of the worth and dignity of humans as beings made in the image of God. The problem isn't merely a "culture of drunkenness," it is a "culture of death."
Ilíon wrote:
at the same time, I would insist that even great parents can have a kid who turns out to be worthless, just as worthless parents can have a kid who is a model citizen or even an exemplar of all that is best in human beings.
I agree...but it is unusual.
Ilíon wrote:
We are seeing worked out the denial of the worth and dignity of humans as beings made in the image of God.
Here, of course, we disagree. I actually don't think theology or philosophy have a great deal of direct influence on most people's lives; most people aren't intellectual enough for their happiness or sense of purpose to be greatly influenced by abstract things. For example, coming from a loving and stable family who insist upon "good citizen" behaviour --- or having the opposite background --- is generally a much more important influence on a person's personality and character than any views that a person may have on religious or philosophical matters. Religion or secular philosophy can have virulent effects on "practical" attitudes and thus affect practical things like family in destructive ways. They can also have positive effects --- it depends on the form they take. I do not accept that belief in the supernatural is necessary in order for society to provide a hospitable environment for good families and the like. On this point, you presumably disagree.
John Carson
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Similar to what Digital Man said. When I were young there existed places such as youth clubs, scouts, and so on where kids could congregate and have fun without causing harm or potential harm to anyone. Youth clubs were generally closed because they were expensive to run, scouting became out-of-fashion but kids still need to be catered for. Nobody caters for them consequently they make their own fun all of this without adult supervision. So they congregate around shops. Shouting, spitting, and generally making a nuisance of themselves. Shoppers can and do feel threatened by largish groups of youths, as do shopkeepers. Police are often called to break-up such groups, after a while, the Police go to their next job, and the youths re-congregate. So this continues day after day. Thus the charge of Anti-social behaviour. Kids are bored. They have no supervised activities to keep their interest and to keep them off the streets. Spending money on supervised activities will go along way to alleviate the problem but local authorities have little if none spare cash for that. Shops wishing to reduce the congregating of youths, thus protecting their businesses, do try different things. Use of sonic speakers that emit an annoying noise that apparantly only below around 25 years can hear do, to some extent, persuade youngsters to move away. But that only moves the kids away from the front of the shop to another place. The solution - give kids something to do that stops them being bored. It will cost money. It will need dedicated adults to supervise such activities.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
The solution - give kids something to do that stops them being bored. It will cost money. It will need dedicated adults to supervise such activities.
Ditch the minimum wage laws and open up the factories. Then eliminate all monies paid to the parents of children over, say, 8 years of age. Problem solved...
But who is the king of all of these folks?
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digital man wrote:
avoid the issue
I'm actually quite certain that I have nailed the issue with my typical laser like precision. Your civilization is crumbling all around you precisely because of the implementation of your own philosophical/political principles, yet you are such an arrogant true believer that you insist upon finding some way to blame the problem on the very source of morality that once held everything together. Quite brilliant of you actually, in a very sad and self destructive way. Buy, hey, keep it up. Don't let me stop you. Extinction is indeed an excellent cure for stupidity. Why bother to fight your enemy when you can just stand and watch them gleefully destroying themselves?
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
It seems to me that christianity is on the path to self destruction: us atheists just stand by and shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are. You, on the other hand, will do whatever you can to make me believe what you think is right regardless of whether I'd be happy doing so. How very christian of you.
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It seems to me that christianity is on the path to self destruction: us atheists just stand by and shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are. You, on the other hand, will do whatever you can to make me believe what you think is right regardless of whether I'd be happy doing so. How very christian of you.
digital man wrote:
shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion
What! Whenever was it proud, Christianity has always been a blood-thirsty religion. How do you think that that people in the USA call themselves Americans and they are not and they call people in south America latino when they are not that either.
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digital man wrote:
shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion
What! Whenever was it proud, Christianity has always been a blood-thirsty religion. How do you think that that people in the USA call themselves Americans and they are not and they call people in south America latino when they are not that either.
You seem to be making 2 distinct points here so I'm not sure where to go with it other than to say that all religions have been, at some time or other, at odds with their own beliefs and moral codes. That doesn't mean to say that there are not also times when they have been forces for good. Even Islam has had its moments however it has appeared to have become now to many westerners and non-muslims. As far as Yanks calling themselves Yanks and calling South Americans Latinos I have no idea what that has to do with what we were talking about.
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Than clearly, you have not done enough to free your civilization of the vile influence of christianity. You must keep pushing until it has been entirely irradicated. That is the only thing that can save you!
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
Stan Shannon wrote:
Than clearly, you have not done enough to free your civilization of the vile influence of christianity. You must keep pushing until it has been entirely irradicated. That is the only thing that can save you!
Finally! A bout of rationality from you! :laugh:
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It seems to me that christianity is on the path to self destruction: us atheists just stand by and shake our heads in disbelief that a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam. The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are. You, on the other hand, will do whatever you can to make me believe what you think is right regardless of whether I'd be happy doing so. How very christian of you.
digital man wrote:
a once proud religion is allowing itself to be displaced by islam.
WTF?! Dispite all the vile and evil things done by the state in its name, at its core, Christianity is one of the most gentle and innocuous belief systems on the planet. Through out most of AMerican history, the only problem government had with Christianity were all the various sects that refused violence in any form, so we had to accomodate their lame "concientious objector" status. What a horrible fucking legacy! Christianity is not allowing itself to be displaced, it has been under one of the most direct and purposeful social assaults in recorded history. Western governments have bent over backwards for those who were "offended" by some kind of biblical reference in the name of the Marxist concotion of "separation of church and state" Christianity has been worn done to a hard core nub of fundamentalist true believers using every political means possible to survive against humanist hostility, and even that is used as a rationale that the assault must continue unabatted.
digital man wrote:
The difference between you and me is that I don't care what you believe as long as you obey the law of the land and am, generally, happy that you are happy with your beliefs, however wierd and zany I may think they are.
No, that isn't the difference between us at all. I fully embrace that principle. All westerners do. Even Christians. It is at the heart of our civilization. It is what defines being a citizen of a liberal democracy. The difference between you and I is that you think that the "law of the land" should be carefully guarded from anyone other than those who share your own beliefs. The notion that people of religious faith, the common people, should be allowed to participate in how those laws are defined, based upon their own moral perspectives, is utterly anathema to you. Your "law of the land" is a dictatorial manifest jealously guarded by a self defined intellectual elite of humanist true believers.
Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization
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Indeed it is but these are mostly christian youth spilling out of inner city churches...
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When I was a kid I lived in the countryside. No youth clubs, no scouts, no organized activities. Nonetheless, we did not destroy everything, we did not spit on people in the streets. Why? Because we were educated this way. Of course, we were not angels and made some stupid things. However they stayed well below today's destructions and aggressions, because the limits imposed on us were more strict. So, children do stupid things? Blame the parents.
Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first Fold with us! ¤ flickr
K(arl) wrote:
So, children do stupid things? Blame the parents.
Don't forget the society in which the parents live. Unless a family is able to homeschool, they give up their children and their rights over their children for a third of the child's waking hours to an organization that is often committed to a view of correct behavior antithetical to that of the parents.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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K(arl) wrote:
So, children do stupid things? Blame the parents.
Don't forget the society in which the parents live. Unless a family is able to homeschool, they give up their children and their rights over their children for a third of the child's waking hours to an organization that is often committed to a view of correct behavior antithetical to that of the parents.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
On the contrary, I think every child older than 5 year old should be taken from his/her parents and his/her education made by the Nation's School, to get there a Republican Education.
If you kill a whale, you get Greenpeace and Jacques Cousteau on your back, but wipe out sardines and you get a canning subsidy! Fold with us! ¤ flickr