[Message Deleted] [modified]
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I will send you a copy of my paper once it is finished.Plse give me some time an bear with me.
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Text file contains only character codes.What if i can hide data inside the text file without distorting/changing/replacing a single readable character.
Pallab: Your algorithm is unique if it really does what you say. I have a fair amount of experience with algorithms in general, and data compression and encryption in particular, and I've never heard of an algorithm that can do what you say. I'm not saying it's impossible; I've seen some very clever algorithms that do amazing things. You really shouldn't reveal the details until you get it patented. It potentially has value, and if you publicly disclose how it works you won't be able to patent it later. I don't know if you're in the US, but in the US you can get an inexpensive provisional patent that will give you a year to turn it into a more rigorous 20-year patent.
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Hi guys...I am from Bangladesh and my knowledge is very limited.I have developed an algorithm using which any data can be hidden in a text file.After hiding the data in the text file,the size of the text file remains absolutely unchanged and there is no change whatsoever in the file's content as far as reading the file is concerned.I know there r lots of data hiding techniques.Guys can you plse tell me if this techniq has already been implemented the way i have done it...I mean hiding the data in a text file without changing the file size even by a single byte and you wont see a single replacement/change/distortion in any of the letters of the file.As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged even after hiding the data in it.
modified on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:42 PM
Pallab_GT wrote:
.I mean hiding the data in a text file without changing the file size even by a single byte and you wont see a single replacement/change/distortion in any of the letters of the file.As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged even after hiding the data in it.
Ok so lets break your claim into this: 1) hiding the data in a text file without changing the file size even by a single byte 2) you wont see a single replacement/change/distortion in any of the letters of the file 3) As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged even after hiding the data in it. No problem with 1). I see problem in 2): "you wont see" and "letters of the file" and 3) "As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged" "Text files are sequences of readable characters such as letters, digits, punctuation, or whitespace; and control characters such as section boundaries, rendering instructions for different languages, line feeds and carriage returns. Embedded information such as font information, hyperlinks, or inline images do not appear in text files, though references to them can be included within (such as HTML elements or metadata)." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_file[^]) If you replace letter with different letters that *looks* same in some font, file is far from unchanged. Sure, person looking at it in notepad or whotever might not notice, but as far as reading the file for text editor, that is a difference. Sorry but if this is your idea it's close to using white font on white background :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
Sir...can i ask you something? If a character is not readable/invisible in MS-WORD/WORDPAD/NOTEPAD using all the english (cause i have tried it only using english fonts) font,will you consider that character readable/printable?
Pallab_GT wrote:
If a character is not readable/invisible in MS-WORD/WORDPAD/NOTEPAD using all the english (cause i have tried it only using english fonts) font,will you consider that character readable/printable?
what he is saying is that he, or I, or anyone desiring to see unprintable characters can look at them at a moments notice anytime we choose to. All characters, all ASCII codes from 0 to 255 are readable to a person who knows what they are doing. You may change the space to a hex 00 or higher order hex, but if I know what I am doing I will see it. More to the point "diff" works at both the character and binary level, so it will see that a change has been made and highlight every single change. I miss out on all the fun discussions.... :( I missed this until now....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Pallab_GT wrote:
.I mean hiding the data in a text file without changing the file size even by a single byte and you wont see a single replacement/change/distortion in any of the letters of the file.As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged even after hiding the data in it.
Ok so lets break your claim into this: 1) hiding the data in a text file without changing the file size even by a single byte 2) you wont see a single replacement/change/distortion in any of the letters of the file 3) As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged even after hiding the data in it. No problem with 1). I see problem in 2): "you wont see" and "letters of the file" and 3) "As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged" "Text files are sequences of readable characters such as letters, digits, punctuation, or whitespace; and control characters such as section boundaries, rendering instructions for different languages, line feeds and carriage returns. Embedded information such as font information, hyperlinks, or inline images do not appear in text files, though references to them can be included within (such as HTML elements or metadata)." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_file[^]) If you replace letter with different letters that *looks* same in some font, file is far from unchanged. Sure, person looking at it in notepad or whotever might not notice, but as far as reading the file for text editor, that is a difference. Sorry but if this is your idea it's close to using white font on white background :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfednh wrote:
it's close to using white font on white background
awww... that doesn't work????!!!???? Next thing you know you will tell me the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus are trickery too! ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I have used MS-WORD,WORDPAD and NOTEPAD with UTF-8 encoding. Can you refer me some other text editor and other encoding using which you can be proved right and where i can download them? Look I am just a novice in comparison with you people.I am knocking ur door just to be sure,what i think is right or wrong ?
Pallab_GT wrote:
Can you refer me some other text editor and other encoding using which you can be proved right and where i can download them?
diff the original and the new files. http://winmerge.org/[^] Hexedit the original and new files. (MS Visual C can hex edit, so can other editors) http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~prewett/hexedit/[^] if you just want to survive freeware stuff: http://www.digitaldarknet.net/thelist/[^]
AbiWord - Word processor with all the bells and whistles! Highly recommended. OpenOffice.org - Office suite, like Microsoft Office and compatable with MS Office formats. Word processor, Spreadsheets, Publisher, Presentation, HTML, and Powerful database (like Access) products. Impress (Like Powerpoint) exports to many formats including SWF (Flash). All can be exported as PDF. Highly recommended. Eclipse - Eclipse java IDE for Windows. ConText - Programmers text editor, supports most languages, shell scripts, plugin support. Crimson editor - Programmers text editor. Features tabbed interface, html, php, c, python syntax highlighting, code output window, and built in FTP! Highly recommended. Jedit - Jedit is a mature and well-designed programmer's text editor with a big focus on Java. Has nice Jython support!Microsoft will let you download the IDE with the basic edition for free. http://www.microsoft.com/express/product/[^] you would be surprised what a programmer's editor will show you about your own files._________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Pallab: Your algorithm is unique if it really does what you say. I have a fair amount of experience with algorithms in general, and data compression and encryption in particular, and I've never heard of an algorithm that can do what you say. I'm not saying it's impossible; I've seen some very clever algorithms that do amazing things. You really shouldn't reveal the details until you get it patented. It potentially has value, and if you publicly disclose how it works you won't be able to patent it later. I don't know if you're in the US, but in the US you can get an inexpensive provisional patent that will give you a year to turn it into a more rigorous 20-year patent.
Mr.Balkany : Thankyou for ur message.Sir I am from Bangladesh and i am a novice in software development in compared to you and my knowledge is very limited.So i am knocking ur door to render me some help on this issue.Sir below i am mentioning the aspects of my technic: 1.The size of the carrier text file does not change even by a single byte after hiding the data. 2.Not a single readable/printable letter of the carrier text file is changed/replaced/distorted. 3.You will notice absolutely no change whatsoever as far as reading the file is concerned. Considering the above points do u think that my technic is unique? Sir,if my technic is unique then what should i do with it?Can you plse guide me? As my knowledge is very limited,i am really confused by all the remarks i got till now.
modified on Friday, March 21, 2008 6:15 AM
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Pallab_GT wrote:
.I mean hiding the data in a text file without changing the file size even by a single byte and you wont see a single replacement/change/distortion in any of the letters of the file.As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged even after hiding the data in it.
Ok so lets break your claim into this: 1) hiding the data in a text file without changing the file size even by a single byte 2) you wont see a single replacement/change/distortion in any of the letters of the file 3) As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged even after hiding the data in it. No problem with 1). I see problem in 2): "you wont see" and "letters of the file" and 3) "As far as reading the file is concerned...the file will remain 100% unchanged" "Text files are sequences of readable characters such as letters, digits, punctuation, or whitespace; and control characters such as section boundaries, rendering instructions for different languages, line feeds and carriage returns. Embedded information such as font information, hyperlinks, or inline images do not appear in text files, though references to them can be included within (such as HTML elements or metadata)." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_file[^]) If you replace letter with different letters that *looks* same in some font, file is far from unchanged. Sure, person looking at it in notepad or whotever might not notice, but as far as reading the file for text editor, that is a difference. Sorry but if this is your idea it's close to using white font on white background :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne MetcalfeNo Sir,thats not my idea.I am again claiming that "You wont see any change/replacement/distortion in any of the readable/printable characters in the carrier text file" after hiding the data and the the text file will remain 100% unchanged as far as reading the file is concerned.
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Mr.Balkany : Thankyou for ur message.Sir I am from Bangladesh and i am a novice in software development in compared to you and my knowledge is very limited.So i am knocking ur door to render me some help on this issue.Sir below i am mentioning the aspects of my technic: 1.The size of the carrier text file does not change even by a single byte after hiding the data. 2.Not a single readable/printable letter of the carrier text file is changed/replaced/distorted. 3.You will notice absolutely no change whatsoever as far as reading the file is concerned. Considering the above points do u think that my technic is unique? Sir,if my technic is unique then what should i do with it?Can you plse guide me? As my knowledge is very limited,i am really confused by all the remarks i got till now.
modified on Friday, March 21, 2008 6:15 AM
Hey Pallab, have you the samples of text file and its twin with hidden information inside you promised yesterday?
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke -
Pallab_GT wrote:
If a character is not readable/invisible in MS-WORD/WORDPAD/NOTEPAD using all the english (cause i have tried it only using english fonts) font,will you consider that character readable/printable?
what he is saying is that he, or I, or anyone desiring to see unprintable characters can look at them at a moments notice anytime we choose to. All characters, all ASCII codes from 0 to 255 are readable to a person who knows what they are doing. You may change the space to a hex 00 or higher order hex, but if I know what I am doing I will see it. More to the point "diff" works at both the character and binary level, so it will see that a change has been made and highlight every single change. I miss out on all the fun discussions.... :( I missed this until now....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Sir,if u check other data hiding softwares i think you will the difference between my technic and the conventional technics that r in use. The whole point is obscuring the data in a text file so that even if the file is intercepted during transfering the file over a network,it should not be noticeable easily that some data is hidden inside the file.
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Hey Pallab, have you the samples of text file and its twin with hidden information inside you promised yesterday?
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke -
Pallab: Your algorithm is unique if it really does what you say. I have a fair amount of experience with algorithms in general, and data compression and encryption in particular, and I've never heard of an algorithm that can do what you say. I'm not saying it's impossible; I've seen some very clever algorithms that do amazing things. You really shouldn't reveal the details until you get it patented. It potentially has value, and if you publicly disclose how it works you won't be able to patent it later. I don't know if you're in the US, but in the US you can get an inexpensive provisional patent that will give you a year to turn it into a more rigorous 20-year patent.
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Yes sir,I have my promise on my mind and i promise to give u the file.Sir just give me sometime.Plse bear with me.
I will wait for with trepidation. :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke -
I will wait for with trepidation. :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain ClarkeSir,Learned man like you will for paper with trepidation from a man like me,I am really overwhelmed.Sir i will ask a little more than a week time from you.Cause before i give my proof to you i want be absolutely sure that my technic works in all possible scenario.By 30th March i will be able to give u the proof.Is that ok with you?
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Sir,Learned man like you will for paper with trepidation from a man like me,I am really overwhelmed.Sir i will ask a little more than a week time from you.Cause before i give my proof to you i want be absolutely sure that my technic works in all possible scenario.By 30th March i will be able to give u the proof.Is that ok with you?
OK. I will wait with increased trepidation. :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke -
Sir,if u check other data hiding softwares i think you will the difference between my technic and the conventional technics that r in use. The whole point is obscuring the data in a text file so that even if the file is intercepted during transfering the file over a network,it should not be noticeable easily that some data is hidden inside the file.
Pallab_GT wrote:
Sir,if u check other data hiding softwares i think you will the difference between my technic and the conventional technics that r in use. The whole point is obscuring the data in a text file so that even if the file is intercepted during transfering the file over a network,it should not be noticeable easily that some data is hidden inside the file.
I am fully aware of the other programs, and as I understand the issue at hand, you are misleading yourself. If you change any white space to a character other than the original white space, you are instantly obvious about the change. You may not see it in notepad, but upon review of the text, it is immediately obvious. If you qualify your algorithm as hiding only from a computer illiterate, I would understand that it would work perfectly, so would many messages. But upon any change to a so-called "non-printable character" can be and is very visible to most of us here.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Pallab_GT wrote:
If a character is not readable/invisible in MS-WORD/WORDPAD/NOTEPAD using all the english (cause i have tried it only using english fonts) font,will you consider that character readable/printable?
what he is saying is that he, or I, or anyone desiring to see unprintable characters can look at them at a moments notice anytime we choose to. All characters, all ASCII codes from 0 to 255 are readable to a person who knows what they are doing. You may change the space to a hex 00 or higher order hex, but if I know what I am doing I will see it. More to the point "diff" works at both the character and binary level, so it will see that a change has been made and highlight every single change. I miss out on all the fun discussions.... :( I missed this until now....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
El Corazon wrote:
I miss out on all the fun discussions.... I missed this until now....
I think this is the first time I've actually spent in this forum .. I've really missed out on some crackpot discussions. Sounds like someones got the wrong handle on steganography.
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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El Corazon wrote:
I miss out on all the fun discussions.... I missed this until now....
I think this is the first time I've actually spent in this forum .. I've really missed out on some crackpot discussions. Sounds like someones got the wrong handle on steganography.
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
This is the longest discussion about nothing that I can recall. I'm sure some punctuation in the above would help, but in the spirit of the thread..
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
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El Corazon wrote:
I miss out on all the fun discussions.... I missed this until now....
I think this is the first time I've actually spent in this forum .. I've really missed out on some crackpot discussions. Sounds like someones got the wrong handle on steganography.
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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I can't see who you are asking, but if you are asking me what my point was, I would summarise this thread as being about a simple data obscuration technique that may be useful for your purpose. As it is easily detected it doesn't appear to be of any great general interest. You ask in your first post:
Pallab_GT wrote:
Guys can you plse tell me if this techniq has already been implemented the way i have done it
The answer to this is that it has almost certainly been done somewhere by someone, but really - who cares? Is it a commonly known/used technique - no. I suspect that you are asking this question thinking that you have invented something (possibly of value). Whilst I encourage you to continue to try to develop new and interesting ideas, this one is no world beater. Unless you have the killer application in mind, use it to impress your friends by hiding data in text files and move on.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."