DC Handgun Ban
-
A simple outsider's view (based on my own arrogant assumptions) is that things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today. I'm still astounded that the assault weapon ban was allowed to expire. Why does anyone in a civilised society need to buy weapons that are designed specifically to kill as many people as possible in a short space of time? Those of you who don't buy those weapons should surely be concerned about those who do.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
A simple outsider's view (based on my own arrogant assumptions) is that things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today.
it isn't an idea, it is a right.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
-
cp9876 wrote:
A simple outsider's view (based on my own arrogant assumptions) is that things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today.
it isn't an idea, it is a right.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
it isn't an idea, it is a right.
What do you mean? Did this 'right' just materialise out of nowhere?
Richard of York gave battle in vain.
-
cp9876 wrote:
A simple outsider's view (based on my own arrogant assumptions) is that things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today.
it isn't an idea, it is a right.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Bu twhy do you need that right? What is th epurpose? I could understand if you were bemoaning the right to have children or to choose where you live or go to school. But the right to buy objects the sole purpose of which is to kill other people? Surely that is a right that is just plain wrong.
-
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Also, the 2nd amendment does not restrict the types of arms you may keep/bear.
Which is to say, were normal citizens as absolutist about the 2nd Amendment as the "free speach" preeners are about (their mis-application) of the 1st, then ... well, things would be interesting, wouldn't they?
All of the amendments have their detractors.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
digital man wrote:
where the vast majority of policemen are unarmed
Is that still true? I heard that the bobbies were insisting on being armed now - maybe that's true just in London?
digital man wrote:
What, exactly, do you need a gun for?
Remember we have Captain See Sharp running around on the streets stealing to get enough money to buy another bottle of cough syrup. :) Maybe more to the point we have street gangs who do have guns, assault weapons in many cases, and who out number, out weapon, and outspend the police departments. Maybe even more to the point there's never been a dictatorship yet that has not disarmed its citizens as part of its power grab.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Many policemen would probably like to be armed but that has always been resisted. In terms of London, yes, there are Diplomatic & Royal Protection teams that are armed as are police in high profile places at, for instance, Heathrow Airport. There are some armed response police, whose weapons are on-board their vehicle but locked away in a secure safe, but whose primary duties are as an ordinary policemen. And contrary to opinion, members of our Intelligence service are no more permitted to carry guns than an ordinary member of society - thus the concept of "James Bond 007 Licenced to Kill" never has been true. Street gangs - the weapon of choice here are knives and there have been a number of highly publicised murders in recent times.
-
Smithers-Jones wrote:
'nuff said
Wonderful. The guy quotes Homer Simpson and Stan Lee and actually thinks he's saying something. Maybe you should change your screen name to Donald-Duck?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Ah, i see... no jokes on that subject. So you want to know my opinion on guns? Can't stand them. Never had any interest in them, never wanted to hold one or shoot one... I hate it, when, being in a police control, coppers staying alert pull their guns already halfway out of their holsters. happened quite a few times to me already. Scares me pretty much. I know nobody who owns a gun, and also nobody who ever needed one. I leave the house without locking the door, never lock my car, have never knife nor pepper spray with me, when I am out for jogging. I fell as save as possible. There is simply no need for a gun in my opinion.
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." (DNA)
-
Mike Gaskey wrote:
it isn't an idea, it is a right.
What do you mean? Did this 'right' just materialise out of nowhere?
Richard of York gave battle in vain.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
What do you mean? Did this 'right' just materialise out of nowhere?
it always existed in the US. The 2nd Amendment to the Constituition codified the position that the government could not take the right away.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
-
cp9876 wrote:
A simple outsider's view (based on my own arrogant assumptions) is that things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today.
it isn't an idea, it is a right.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
It would seem beneficial if the courts interpreted this right in its historical context and allowed all citizens the right to carry muskets. Can you carry rocket launchers (you may be attacked by a tank), SAMs (attack from the air is commonplace these days), biological weapons (these could be your only defence if an army was forming on your doorstep), ballistic missiles (a preemptive strike capability is often the best defence - I went to school in the cold war) etc, and if not why not.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
-
As someone who lives in a country where there are few guns (contrary to what the Daily Mail might have you believe) and where the vast majority of policemen are unarmed and where I have never even considered owning a gun I do not understand the fuss. What, exactly, do you need a gun for?
For the very reason the amendment was created - to defend against all enemies, both foreign *and* domestic. I have a wide range of weapons, none of which are semi-autos. I don't feel the need to own an "assault weapon", but far be it from me to say that someone else can't own one.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Bu twhy do you need that right? What is th epurpose? I could understand if you were bemoaning the right to have children or to choose where you live or go to school. But the right to buy objects the sole purpose of which is to kill other people? Surely that is a right that is just plain wrong.
digital man wrote:
Bu twhy do you need that right?
First, it is an historical right - US citizens have always had it and in today's world, simply because there are bureaucrats that would like to eliminate the right.
digital man wrote:
But the right to buy objects the sole purpose of which is to kill other people? Surely that is a right that is just plain wrong.
not if I use it to defend my family, my home, myself.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
-
All of the amendments have their detractors.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
All of the amendments have their detractors.
Whether or not this is true, do all have their "absolutists?" (The quote marks are necessary, because even the "free speech" preeners are generally *for* actual/real censorship about some things, including the very thing the Amendment's clause is mainly addressing).
-
Oakman wrote:
Is that still true? I heard that the bobbies were insisting on being armed now - maybe that's true just in London?
Indeed it is.
Oakman wrote:
Remember we have Captain See Sharp running around on the streets stealing to get enough money to buy another bottle of cough syrup.
Oh, okay, that certainly is reason enough to arm everyone. :-)
Oakman wrote:
Maybe more to the point we have street gangs who do have guns, assault weapons in many cases, and who out number, out weapon, and outspend the police departments.
Yes, I know that: I'm not saying the problem is easily solvable. I think it is a great pity that people feel the need to carry weapons.
Oakman wrote:
Maybe even more to the point there's never been a dictatorship yet that has not disarmed its citizens as part of its power grab.
But we've never really been armed (not for a long time) and the vast majority of people don't miss it. Our government (as appalling and corrupt as they are) have not yet descended to pushing us around with an armed militia. Besides, the British army is entirely professional and would not back a government coup. I think. I hope. Gulp.
digital man wrote:
Indeed it is.
digital man wrote:
I think it is a great pity that people feel the need to carry weapons.
I know some folks do. However, most of the people I know support the right to carry a weapon if they chose to, which is not the same thing at all. By the way, in case you are wondering, I own four guns: an 1860's Springfield muzzle-loading rifled musket; a pepper-box revolver also from the American Civil War; a Colt Peacemaker from the 1870's and a 1-shot gambler's derringer from the 1880's. None of them are street legal. None of them have been fired for quite some time and the derringer has had the barrel plugged. For defense at home, I have an attack cat named Pixilated. Unfortunately she was born without eyes, so she's not street legal either. But I would react quite negatively to the idea that South Carolina might start telling me I couldn't have a weapon if I wanted one.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
-
A simple outsider's view (based on my own arrogant assumptions) is that things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today. I'm still astounded that the assault weapon ban was allowed to expire. Why does anyone in a civilised society need to buy weapons that are designed specifically to kill as many people as possible in a short space of time? Those of you who don't buy those weapons should surely be concerned about those who do.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today.
How is the 2nd amendment not still a good idea? Some say that the 1st and 4th amendment aren't still good ideas as well.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
What do you mean? Did this 'right' just materialise out of nowhere?
it always existed in the US. The 2nd Amendment to the Constituition codified the position that the government could not take the right away.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Either there was some point in history where the 'right' came into existence, or the US has existed through all time, the 'right' included along with it. Now, assuming that it is the former as opposed to the latter (although I could be swayed on the issue) then that 'right' must have come OUT OF somewhere. I don't think it's a law of nature that everyone can own a gun (assumed simply for the sake of the argument), so I'm assuming that someone came up with the notion that everyone can have a gun. That makes it an idea.
Richard of York gave battle in vain.
-
digital man wrote:
Bu twhy do you need that right?
First, it is an historical right - US citizens have always had it and in today's world, simply because there are bureaucrats that would like to eliminate the right.
digital man wrote:
But the right to buy objects the sole purpose of which is to kill other people? Surely that is a right that is just plain wrong.
not if I use it to defend my family, my home, myself.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
First, it is an historical right
Times have been known to change.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
not if I use it to defend my family, my home, myself.
So the success of this right is seen in the low crime rates in the US and reduced rate of murders and assaults?
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
-
Ah, i see... no jokes on that subject. So you want to know my opinion on guns? Can't stand them. Never had any interest in them, never wanted to hold one or shoot one... I hate it, when, being in a police control, coppers staying alert pull their guns already halfway out of their holsters. happened quite a few times to me already. Scares me pretty much. I know nobody who owns a gun, and also nobody who ever needed one. I leave the house without locking the door, never lock my car, have never knife nor pepper spray with me, when I am out for jogging. I fell as save as possible. There is simply no need for a gun in my opinion.
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." (DNA)
Smithers-Jones wrote:
I leave the house without locking the door, never lock my car
Thats extremely foolish! You may realize this someday when you are robbed blind.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
-
digital man wrote:
Bu twhy do you need that right?
First, it is an historical right - US citizens have always had it and in today's world, simply because there are bureaucrats that would like to eliminate the right.
digital man wrote:
But the right to buy objects the sole purpose of which is to kill other people? Surely that is a right that is just plain wrong.
not if I use it to defend my family, my home, myself.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
First, it is an historical right - US citizens have always had it and in today's world, simply because there are bureaucrats that would like to eliminate the right.
Saying you need the right simply because you have it isn't really an argument. Also, saying it's a good right simply because it's a historic one isn't really an argument either.
Richard of York gave battle in vain.
-
cp9876 wrote:
things that seemed a good idea 230 years ago may not be a good idea today.
How is the 2nd amendment not still a good idea? Some say that the 1st and 4th amendment aren't still good ideas as well.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
How is the 2nd amendment not still a good idea?
It is only a good idea if it provides a net benefit to your society. As I stated before I'm an outsider but when I compare what I see in the US compared to elsewhere I'm struggling to see the benefits.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
-
Smithers-Jones wrote:
I leave the house without locking the door, never lock my car
Thats extremely foolish! You may realize this someday when you are robbed blind.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
It doesn't look like he lives in the US. I know how that's a foreign concept for you.
Richard of York gave battle in vain.
-
It would seem beneficial if the courts interpreted this right in its historical context and allowed all citizens the right to carry muskets. Can you carry rocket launchers (you may be attacked by a tank), SAMs (attack from the air is commonplace these days), biological weapons (these could be your only defence if an army was forming on your doorstep), ballistic missiles (a preemptive strike capability is often the best defence - I went to school in the cold war) etc, and if not why not.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
cp9876 wrote:
It would seem beneficial if the courts interpreted this right in its historical context and allowed all citizens the right to carry muskets.
pretty silly. It isn't a context, it is the origin.
cp9876 wrote:
Can you carry rocket launchers
I don't know, but maybe. One element of the history is protection against an out of control government. If tommorrow my local government decided that all citizens who do not swear allegience to Allah be decapitated, they'd play hell coming into my home and attempting to enforce the new law. So in that context I want to be able to own anything up to and including what the government can own.
Mike Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
