Guns and stuff... [modified]

soap brain

I still don't see how it's a natural right. I don't think that the words 'natural' and 'right' can waltz.

Richard of York gave battle in vain.

realJSOP

When you're finally an adult, maybe you'll understand.

"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz · modified on Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:34 AM

digital man wrote:

I can see how the 2nd amendment gives you that right

That's like saying if there were a constitutional amendment prohbiting abortion that it would "give the right to life" to the unborn. The 2nd amendment doesn't give us a right, it restricts the Federal gov't and the states from infringing or diminishing or removing that right. The right exists in and of itself.

soap brain

No, there's nothing in nature that gives you the right to even live. It's about survival, pure and simple, and there are no rights involved. It's not natural, so STOP CALLING IT THAT!

Richard of York gave battle in vain.

realJSOP

When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. Thomas Jefferson

"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

you're an idiot. ok, since you have no right to live, i'll come over there and kick your ass until you die. and since you don't believe in the right to defend yourself or own guns, it'll be easy as pie.

soap brain

Quotation confesses inferiority. - Ralph Waldo Emerson (by the way, you don't need to point out the irony in using a quote about how bad using quotes is)

Richard of York gave battle in vain.

Stan Shannon

Wow, you just completely overturned the enlightenment and threw Locke and Jefferson right out the window. Not bad for a 13 year old. Will the Age of Reason be next on your hit list?

Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

you must also believe that the unborn don't have a natural right to live.

soap brain

What IS a right, and why does nature give them to you?

Richard of York gave battle in vain.

Matthew Faithfull

I'm all for intellectual honesty. Yes, this has happened under 'European' as opposed to 'conservative' influences but that does not in itself say much about left or right wing. It is worth noting that while those campaigning for, promoting and proposing the intellectual ideas underlying these destructive changes have largely been 'left' leaning academics, those benfiting in terms of power and profit have been 'right wing' crypto faschist globalists. This is why its so important to understand the deliberatly created nexus of cooperation between the two groups. Take the Council on Foreign Relations for example, set up and funded by Wall Street Bankers to pay 'left-wing' acedemics to promote anti-american foreign policy, and yet Dick Cheney is 'proud to be a member' in private but careful not to mention it when campaigning in his own state. Something non obvious that can't easily be pigeonholed as left-wing or right-wing is going on. The best explanation that anyone has come up with is that these people are signed up to a bigger agenda that they never publicly talk about, which both wings think will get them what they want but they know the public will never support. In Europe we know this to be true for a fact because of the details of the EU that have come out over the years, both ultra-left international socialists and ultra-right corporate faschists have been led to believe that it will result in their eventual domination and effective but covert control of the entire continent. Both sides have almost certainly been lied to, along with certain religious groups like the upper eschelons of the Catholic church, to get their cooperation. The question then becomes, by whom and to what end?

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

soap brain

I'm not saying that people shouldn't live. I'm merely saying that just because you think that nature gives you the right to live, doesn't mean it won't kill you horridly and for no reason. Nature isn't about rights. That's a human thing.

Richard of York gave battle in vain.

Matthew Faithfull

Good question! Keep that up and you'll end up like me with any luck :laugh:

Nothing is exactly what it seems but everything with seems can be unpicked.

Stan Shannon

I'm not quite sure I agree with that. The right of self defense must certainly be considered a natural right, but, to me, that hardly translates into an unrestricted, unregulated right to own weapons.

Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

nature doesn't give us rights, it's part of who we are as human beings. it's like saying why does nature give the flower a red color? no, wrong. the flower is just red, it's just the way it is. rights exist as a universal, eternal law. Kind of like the Law of Gravity.

Stan Shannon

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

What IS a right, and why does nature give them to you?

That is a good question, and one which the philosophers who created our form of government clearly put a lot of thought into. The answer to that question clearly reflects upon one's overall view of what constitutes 'nature'.

Please excuse my refusal to participate in the suicide of western civilization

soap brain

I think I've defined it as being rather different to everyone else.

Richard of York gave battle in vain.

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

i didn't say that there should be no restrictions. I'm all for licensing, etc. Licensing doesn't remove or infringe the right. For instance, I don't think individuals should necessarily be able to own a tank, at least not without paying lots of money for a license and going through training, background checks, etc.

soap brain

So, if Earth were to suddenly disappear, would the right to bear arms live on, built into the very stuff the universe is made of?

Richard of York gave battle in vain.

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

yes