The Obama problem
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Tempest in a teakettle. I can't remember a presidential election where friends and associates of a front-running politician weren't dragged out by opponents in hope of casting doubt on his character. Democrats have spent rather a lot of time demonizing preachers who support Republicans, so the Wright thing seems only fair. Accusations of impropriety in business dealings are pretty much standard. Doesn't mean i think Obama is worth putting into office, but i don't see how any of this makes him weaker than the other candidates at this point. Probably the best point in that essay was the comment on how Obama managed to avoid much of this controversy for the bulk of his campaign; although it's hardly a novel opinion, it does ring true and perhaps indicates that he's either been extremely lucky in the past, or rather incautious of late. ...Or maybe it just means that the Democrats are really tucking it away at the buffet when it comes to eating their own now. :rolleyes:
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
If experience is the yardstick by which one measures the quality of a politician, then by that standard, Cheney and Rumsfeld have over 60 years of combined experienc--and look where that got the U.S. I prefer to judge the candidates by how they run their campaigns because it is a microcosm of what their respective presidencies would be like if they were to get into office. Out of the three presidential candidates, Obama has taken the least amount of donations from PACs and lobbyists. Hillary, on the other hand, has put down more earmarks than McCain and Obama combined[^]. In Obama's case, I don't fault him for his association with Reverend Wright. Most people have been told by the media that Rev. Wright is a racist, but after seeing his whole sermon without any edits[^], he doesn't sound like a racist at all. In fact, I challenge anyone here to listen to what he's saying and find anything that is factually inaccurate. You don't have to agree with me, but at least do yourself a favor and don't always believe the "sound bites" that the media feeds you. Now, if the Clinton Campaign wants to use the Rev. Wright controversy to bury Obama, then it's obvious that Hillary (again) has had a lapse in memory. If they want to use "guilt by association" as a means to disqualify someone to be a presidential candidate, take a look at this photo[^]. That's Rev. Wright on the left, and the former president Clinton on the right. I guess that makes Clinton 'guilty' now too, doesn't it? :)
Do you know...LinFu?
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DemonPossessed wrote:
I thought you were the one who said you made straight F's in high school?
I didn't do a damn thing while in school, until it was around graduation time then I did just enough to graduate. I actually manipulated the system so I didn't have to do as much as the rest of th students. I got by with sleeping and goofing off. I got the same exact thing the rest of the students got, a diploma.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I didn't do a damn thing while in school, until it was around graduation time then I did just enough to graduate. I actually manipulated the system so I didn't have to do as much as the rest of th students.
Again, you're bragging about being an uneducated, ignorant lout. No wonder your slogan is "Want fries with that?".
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I got the same exact thing the rest of the students got, a diploma.
No, the ones who applied themselves got an education and the ability to move up in society. You have decided to move down. From what you said your grandfather was a reasonable person. So from reasonable productive person to asshole in 3 generations, the American dream. :laugh:
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
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Fail, I got my diploma, I have a job, I have my own place, I have a vehical, I have my computers and all that good stuff. You on the other hand are making no money and you still live with mommy and daddy.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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insight into why he'll not be elected[^]
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
The Obama problem is the propensity of so many people to be distracted by scaremongering nonsense and mudslinging. That is how John Kerry, a war hero, was made to look bad relative to George Bush, who avoided danger and sometimes didn't even show up for duty. Obama doesn't shy from meeting with and dealing with people he disagrees with. That has been a central part of his message from the beginning of his campaign. Seems he actually does live up to that message. What a shock. Here is another perspective on the Weathermen alumni with whom Obama has a slight relationship. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/17/AR2008041703910.html[^]
John Carson
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The Obama problem is the propensity of so many people to be distracted by scaremongering nonsense and mudslinging. That is how John Kerry, a war hero, was made to look bad relative to George Bush, who avoided danger and sometimes didn't even show up for duty. Obama doesn't shy from meeting with and dealing with people he disagrees with. That has been a central part of his message from the beginning of his campaign. Seems he actually does live up to that message. What a shock. Here is another perspective on the Weathermen alumni with whom Obama has a slight relationship. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/17/AR2008041703910.html[^]
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
John Kerry, a war hero, was made to look bad relative to George Bush, who avoided danger and sometimes didn't even show up for duty.
This was debated to the nth degree and I'll strongly disagree, Kerry was no war hero - but that isn't material at this point. as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
John Carson wrote:
Obama doesn't shy from meeting with and dealing with people he disagrees with.
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show. And by the way, as to "distractions and scaremongeing", while it may please you that: he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion While all the above might make you, Europeans and Hamas happy - it assures he'll not be elected.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I didn't do a damn thing while in school, until it was around graduation time then I did just enough to graduate. I actually manipulated the system so I didn't have to do as much as the rest of th students.
Again, you're bragging about being an uneducated, ignorant lout. No wonder your slogan is "Want fries with that?".
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I got the same exact thing the rest of the students got, a diploma.
No, the ones who applied themselves got an education and the ability to move up in society. You have decided to move down. From what you said your grandfather was a reasonable person. So from reasonable productive person to asshole in 3 generations, the American dream. :laugh:
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
Tim Craig wrote:
From what you said your grandfather was a reasonable person.
He was very stubborn and got drunk alot too.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I have my own place
It's not yours. It belongs to daddy. Of course, thieves rarely trouble themselves with who owns what. :mad:
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
I rent it, I pay for the cost.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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John Carson wrote:
John Kerry, a war hero, was made to look bad relative to George Bush, who avoided danger and sometimes didn't even show up for duty.
This was debated to the nth degree and I'll strongly disagree, Kerry was no war hero - but that isn't material at this point. as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
John Carson wrote:
Obama doesn't shy from meeting with and dealing with people he disagrees with.
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show. And by the way, as to "distractions and scaremongeing", while it may please you that: he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion While all the above might make you, Europeans and Hamas happy - it assures he'll not be elected.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
You appear to be repeating yourself. I read it and watched it the first time. The fact that they hold some strongly left wing views is not surprising or remarkable. There are quite a lot of people like that, particularly around universities. Most of them manage to play constructive roles in society nevertheless, as Ayers and Dohrn appear to be doing. The fact that Obama has a slight association with them should not be a cause for any alarm --- but of course it will be.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show.
So he has agreed to talk to them --- a bunch of war mongering, torture-loving, Constitution-trashing scum bags. Obama is indeed a statesman.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
Another perspective: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nickiekalla/gGBKlk[^]
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion
As a religious person himself, he was hardly likely to demean people for being religious. His point was simply that they had given up on economic issues and focussed on cultural ones. He may not have been right on this, by the way, but if you read the whole statement in context, then he is clearly sympathetic. See here:
OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because
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I rent it, I pay for the cost.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I rent it, I pay for the cost
So daddy still got paid while you were riding the tax payers with your food stamps?
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
Yeah, thats how I got in debt.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Tim Craig wrote:
From what you said your grandfather was a reasonable person.
He was very stubborn and got drunk alot too.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
got drunk alot too.
So you're claiming your substance abuse is hereditary? :laugh: Maybe he didn't start drinking until he saw what he had for a grandson?
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.
He started drinking fairly young. And yeah it is hereditary.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Wow! Good boy! What other tricks can you do?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
Stop talking, by god. :zzz:
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
You appear to be repeating yourself. I read it and watched it the first time. The fact that they hold some strongly left wing views is not surprising or remarkable. There are quite a lot of people like that, particularly around universities. Most of them manage to play constructive roles in society nevertheless, as Ayers and Dohrn appear to be doing. The fact that Obama has a slight association with them should not be a cause for any alarm --- but of course it will be.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show.
So he has agreed to talk to them --- a bunch of war mongering, torture-loving, Constitution-trashing scum bags. Obama is indeed a statesman.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
Another perspective: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nickiekalla/gGBKlk[^]
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion
As a religious person himself, he was hardly likely to demean people for being religious. His point was simply that they had given up on economic issues and focussed on cultural ones. He may not have been right on this, by the way, but if you read the whole statement in context, then he is clearly sympathetic. See here:
OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because
John Carson wrote:
You may even be right about that (except for the Hamas drivel). It is hard to be optimistic about a country that elected George Bush twice. Still, I retain some hope.
The first time George Bush ran, he was running on a change platform. His plans for the future sounded reasonable and optimistic. It may, of course, be the case that Oz only elects prime ministers of the first water, and is never fooled into thinking they have a politician of quality, when they have only one who reads speeches well. (He did when he started. A comparison of his speaking style between 2000 and now shows an amazing loss of language skills.)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Stop talking, by god. :zzz:
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
Should I talk by the devil?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Should I talk by the devil?
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
*puts finger to lips* Shhhh...
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
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He started drinking fairly young. And yeah it is hereditary.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Yeah, thats how I got in debt.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
You appear to be repeating yourself. I read it and watched it the first time. The fact that they hold some strongly left wing views is not surprising or remarkable. There are quite a lot of people like that, particularly around universities. Most of them manage to play constructive roles in society nevertheless, as Ayers and Dohrn appear to be doing. The fact that Obama has a slight association with them should not be a cause for any alarm --- but of course it will be.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show.
So he has agreed to talk to them --- a bunch of war mongering, torture-loving, Constitution-trashing scum bags. Obama is indeed a statesman.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
Another perspective: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/nickiekalla/gGBKlk[^]
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion
As a religious person himself, he was hardly likely to demean people for being religious. His point was simply that they had given up on economic issues and focussed on cultural ones. He may not have been right on this, by the way, but if you read the whole statement in context, then he is clearly sympathetic. See here:
OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because
John Carson wrote:
I must say, I regard all this talk about elitism and the rest as completely phony.
Most on both sides of the partisan divide in the US suffer from a virulent, incestuous case of schadenfreude. Nobody really cares about Obama's record, or his associations, or his advisors or his politics or any of those things. Nor do they care about Hillary's, or McCain's, and nobody cared about Kerry's or Bush's, either. What they care about is winning or losing, being right or wrong, having power or taking it. You're right, all that talk is phony, for the very simple reason that not one single person spewing it believes it. It's just a means to an end. And anything that can be used or abused to serve those ends is sufficient, without regard to what it is or how destructive it is, without regard to its honesty, its morality, its ethic, or its righteousness. No, the US has decided it prefers to destroy its politicians, even the best ones (not saying Obama is one of these - merely making a point), to the end that by the time any politician makes it into office, they're just as powerless, incompetent, and impotent as the rest of the gas bags we call "representatives." And then they, destroyed in equal measure to their long-cynical colleagues, are equally unable to do even the easiest of tasks, held up as triumphant proof that nobody can beat the system, nobody can change it, and all there is to do is submit, proof that the very act of participating makes you just as dirty, just as corrupt, and just as ugly as they are. Behold the politics of fear, of control through fear, the embodiment of a nation divided, and the worst part is, we're all aware of it, and we couldn't care less to change it.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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John Carson wrote:
John Kerry, a war hero, was made to look bad relative to George Bush, who avoided danger and sometimes didn't even show up for duty.
This was debated to the nth degree and I'll strongly disagree, Kerry was no war hero - but that isn't material at this point. as to perspective, here's yet another view[^]
John Carson wrote:
Obama doesn't shy from meeting with and dealing with people he disagrees with.
Oh? he's promised Chris Wallace and Bill O'Reilley an interview and after almost 2 years has finally condescended to be interviewed this Sunday on Wallace's Sunday morning show. And by the way, as to "distractions and scaremongeing", while it may please you that: he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have Then we have Obama, talking to money men in San Fransico, demeaning blue collar working folk for: 1. clinging to their guns 2. clinging to their religion While all the above might make you, Europeans and Hamas happy - it assures he'll not be elected.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
And by the way, as to "distractions and scaremongeing", while it may please you that: he's spent 20 years of Sunday's sitting in achurch pew while a minister spews "Black Liberation Theology" that: 1. Condems his own country for its drug problem 2. Condems his own country for creating and spreading AIDs 3. Condems his own country for the problems black have
I'm curious - what evidence have you that Wright said any of those things for 20 years? You've twisted the meaning of his words from just ONE speech - why should I believe you know a damn thing about anything else he's said for the last 20 years?
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
