The Obama problem
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
His ministry is founded on "Black lLiberation Theology" - it would be unusual in the extreme for him to say anything else.
.... You know this cause Fox News says it is so? Or because you actually took the time to watch all 3,000 hours of the DVDs of his sermons available?
Mike Gaskey wrote:
And by the way, the speeches (yes, that is plural) that have made their way to cable news shows
come up to a sum total of 4 minutes. Out of 20 years of speeches. Yep, that's conclusive proof of anything.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Patrick S wrote:
come up to a sum total of 4 minutes. Out of 20 years of speeches. Yep, that's conclusive proof of anything
Once someone has said what Wright said in those 4 minutes, it's up to him to provide proof that he didn't mean it, or was abjectly ashamed of saying it. It's only up to the media, or Mike, or anyone else to corrobarate that he did say it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
This may make them purer and more attractive to folks on the other continents (whom Stan is sure they want to emulate) but it has, demonstrably, made it harder for them to win elections.
You are too good for this place. Insight is lost in a place like this one. It's rather why my posting here has been reduced to just a few times every couple of weeks.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Patrick S wrote:
You are too good for this place
I don't know whether to laugh or blush.
Patrick S wrote:
Insight is lost in a place like this one.
Not really true. One does have to wade through the trolls, of course, but I have learned things, and changed my mind about things based on exchanges with other soapboxers. John Carson is, for instance, is someone who differs from me on a number of issues but who almost always challenges me to think hard and long about anything we exchange posts about. As a result, I tend to be better informed, i.e. wiser, and, it is my hope, so does he.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Patrick S wrote:
come up to a sum total of 4 minutes. Out of 20 years of speeches. Yep, that's conclusive proof of anything
Once someone has said what Wright said in those 4 minutes, it's up to him to provide proof that he didn't mean it, or was abjectly ashamed of saying it. It's only up to the media, or Mike, or anyone else to corrobarate that he did say it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Once someone has said what Wright said in those 4 minutes, it's up to him to provide proof that he didn't mean it, or was abjectly ashamed of saying it.
I'm not saying he didn't mean it, or didn't believe it. I'm not in any way attempting to refute it. I'm simply saying that I'm not one to make rash judgements, as others are, and 4 minutes of speeches are not conclusive proof of anyone's worthiness to be a pastor or their standing as a Christian. Personalities are simply far more complex than the parodies made of them. But my real purpose in addressing this goes more to what I posted above - if anyone REALLY cared about these issues, they'd ask McCain about Hagee and Robertson, because they've said almost exactly the same things that Wright did. Only, nobody asks about them. It's a double standard, and it's there precisely because nobody really cares about this; it's only yet another way to be right, to 'beat' your opponent, to manipulate the voters.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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Oakman wrote:
There are no facts in his rant, only opinions - which he's entitled to, as long as no-one mistakes them for facts.
You're correct - this is my opinion. One I happen to think accurately reflects the way people discuss politics, but it's not intended to be 'factual'. If it were, it wouldn't be a rant :-D
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Patrick S wrote:
You're correct - this is my opinion.
And I shall defend to my death your right to express it. Which is more than Dick Cheney would do - he only defends things to other people's death.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Patrick S wrote:
You are too good for this place
I don't know whether to laugh or blush.
Patrick S wrote:
Insight is lost in a place like this one.
Not really true. One does have to wade through the trolls, of course, but I have learned things, and changed my mind about things based on exchanges with other soapboxers. John Carson is, for instance, is someone who differs from me on a number of issues but who almost always challenges me to think hard and long about anything we exchange posts about. As a result, I tend to be better informed, i.e. wiser, and, it is my hope, so does he.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
I don't know whether to laugh or blush.
Probably both responses are appropriate :)
Oakman wrote:
Not really true. One does have to wade through the trolls, of course, but I have learned things, and changed my mind about things based on exchanges with other soapboxers.
Perhaps it's that process of wading and weeding I got tired of. Life is complicated enough without having to learn how much of the noise to ignore, when there are other places where discourse is far more nuanced anyway. One might ask, then, why I continue to drop by, and really I suppose it's exactly what you say - it's not ALL lost, and there's always some value to be gleaned even from discourse of the sort you see here.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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Oakman wrote:
Once someone has said what Wright said in those 4 minutes, it's up to him to provide proof that he didn't mean it, or was abjectly ashamed of saying it.
I'm not saying he didn't mean it, or didn't believe it. I'm not in any way attempting to refute it. I'm simply saying that I'm not one to make rash judgements, as others are, and 4 minutes of speeches are not conclusive proof of anyone's worthiness to be a pastor or their standing as a Christian. Personalities are simply far more complex than the parodies made of them. But my real purpose in addressing this goes more to what I posted above - if anyone REALLY cared about these issues, they'd ask McCain about Hagee and Robertson, because they've said almost exactly the same things that Wright did. Only, nobody asks about them. It's a double standard, and it's there precisely because nobody really cares about this; it's only yet another way to be right, to 'beat' your opponent, to manipulate the voters.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Patrick S wrote:
if anyone REALLY cared about these issues, they'd ask McCain about Hagee and Robertson, because they've said almost exactly the same things that Wright did. Only, nobody asks about them. It's a double standard,
I think you need to just wait. MoveOn.org is not known for letting the slightest conservative pecadillo go by without notice. Right now, I think they are laying low because of the general revulsion over their "Petreus/Betray us) ad. They seriously miscalculated the effect on the public when they published that. Besides, they want to wait until their efforts will do the most good, presumably after Labor Day.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
I don't know whether to laugh or blush.
Probably both responses are appropriate :)
Oakman wrote:
Not really true. One does have to wade through the trolls, of course, but I have learned things, and changed my mind about things based on exchanges with other soapboxers.
Perhaps it's that process of wading and weeding I got tired of. Life is complicated enough without having to learn how much of the noise to ignore, when there are other places where discourse is far more nuanced anyway. One might ask, then, why I continue to drop by, and really I suppose it's exactly what you say - it's not ALL lost, and there's always some value to be gleaned even from discourse of the sort you see here.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I got the same exact thing the rest of the students got, a diploma.
But not a decent job. Looks like the system worked!
And when the sunlight hits the olive oil, don't hesitate.
End the end we all get the same thing. Money.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Patrick S wrote:
You are too good for this place
I don't know whether to laugh or blush.
Patrick S wrote:
Insight is lost in a place like this one.
Not really true. One does have to wade through the trolls, of course, but I have learned things, and changed my mind about things based on exchanges with other soapboxers. John Carson is, for instance, is someone who differs from me on a number of issues but who almost always challenges me to think hard and long about anything we exchange posts about. As a result, I tend to be better informed, i.e. wiser, and, it is my hope, so does he.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Not really true. One does have to wade through the trolls, of course, but I have learned things, and changed my mind about things based on exchanges with other soapboxers. John Carson is, for instance, is someone who differs from me on a number of issues but who almost always challenges me to think hard and long about anything we exchange posts about. As a result, I tend to be better informed, i.e. wiser, and, it is my hope, so does he.
Aw shucks. :-O I agree with Patrick that the insightful and non-formulaic nature of your contributions sets you apart from most here and I certainly learn from our exchanges. My attitude to the Soapbox more generally waxes and wanes --- with more waning in recent times. As a forum for encountering a range of opinion that I would never experience in my offline world, it has been highly educational. Even, and in some cases especially, those on the far right have been interesting to engage. But, like Patrick, I come here less often these days. Most of the discussion is now fairly predictable.
John Carson
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Wow - you really ARE stupid. It's not uncommon for people who fail at life, to then blame minorities, I mean, people who can't hold down a job or get laid are surely the people with enough residual bitterness at their own failings to be ripe for the picking from hate groups looking to give such people an external 'them' to blame for all their self made problems. Yeah, black people are oppressing you. Give me a break.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
I would smack the shit out of you if I could. You totally twisted that into your liking. Get real you tardball, your understanding is severely corrupted.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Oakman wrote:
Not really true. One does have to wade through the trolls, of course, but I have learned things, and changed my mind about things based on exchanges with other soapboxers. John Carson is, for instance, is someone who differs from me on a number of issues but who almost always challenges me to think hard and long about anything we exchange posts about. As a result, I tend to be better informed, i.e. wiser, and, it is my hope, so does he.
Aw shucks. :-O I agree with Patrick that the insightful and non-formulaic nature of your contributions sets you apart from most here and I certainly learn from our exchanges. My attitude to the Soapbox more generally waxes and wanes --- with more waning in recent times. As a forum for encountering a range of opinion that I would never experience in my offline world, it has been highly educational. Even, and in some cases especially, those on the far right have been interesting to engage. But, like Patrick, I come here less often these days. Most of the discussion is now fairly predictable.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
My attitude to the Soapbox more generally waxes and wanes --- with more waning in recent times.
I do understand. I was sick for a couple of days and when I logged in to CP after that short a hiatus, I had to force myself to jump to the SoapBox.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Wow - you really ARE stupid. It's not uncommon for people who fail at life, to then blame minorities, I mean, people who can't hold down a job or get laid are surely the people with enough residual bitterness at their own failings to be ripe for the picking from hate groups looking to give such people an external 'them' to blame for all their self made problems. Yeah, black people are oppressing you. Give me a break.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Christian Graus wrote:
people who can't hold down a job or get laid are surely the people with enough residual bitterness at their own failings to be ripe for the picking from hate groups looking to give such people an external 'them' to blame for all their self made problems
One of the accomplishments CP may not want to claim is introducing CSS to Stanley and Ilidgit. Now he's parroting his (imperfect) understanding of their bushwa, next he'll shave his head and join up at Skinheads.net.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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End the end we all get the same thing. Money.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
End the end we all get the same thing. Money
Absolutely true. And if we didn't have people like you who are willing to work for nickles and dimes, where would we find our maids and day laborers, and short order cooks?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
End the end we all get the same thing. Money
Absolutely true. And if we didn't have people like you who are willing to work for nickles and dimes, where would we find our maids and day laborers, and short order cooks?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
You think your something special don't you? No body works for you asshole. I work for myself, not some asshole like you who measures success with a number, and considers those with a smaller number failures. Fuck off old man, you are worthless.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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Christian Graus wrote:
people who can't hold down a job or get laid are surely the people with enough residual bitterness at their own failings to be ripe for the picking from hate groups looking to give such people an external 'them' to blame for all their self made problems
One of the accomplishments CP may not want to claim is introducing CSS to Stanley and Ilidgit. Now he's parroting his (imperfect) understanding of their bushwa, next he'll shave his head and join up at Skinheads.net.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
You really are trying sound retarded, or are you really this fucking dumb? Stand and idion are completely irrelevant and I disagree with both of them on a lot of things. How are you actually a programmer? Do you actually design and write code or do you fiddle with some prebuilt shit and call it your own? Perhaps you are one of those infamous 'install and setup' programmers that just install shit.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
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You think your something special don't you? No body works for you asshole. I work for myself, not some asshole like you who measures success with a number, and considers those with a smaller number failures. Fuck off old man, you are worthless.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
You think your something special don't you?
Sometimes I like to think so. Thanks for asking.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
No body works for you asshole
Actually my maid does.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
I work for myself, not some asshole like you who measures success with a number, and considers those with a smaller number failures
I spent far to much time working for and with non-profits at considerably less than full value to be to worried about the veracity of your accusation.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
you are worthless
Oh how I wish you could convince the IRS of this.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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You really are trying sound retarded, or are you really this fucking dumb? Stand and idion are completely irrelevant and I disagree with both of them on a lot of things. How are you actually a programmer? Do you actually design and write code or do you fiddle with some prebuilt shit and call it your own? Perhaps you are one of those infamous 'install and setup' programmers that just install shit.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
Perhaps you are one of those infamous 'install and setup' programmers that just install sh*t.
Really? I'd never heard of anyone called a programmer who only installs and sets up software. But ironically, someone like that would be infinitely more hirable, infinitely more skilled, and making an infinitely more worthwhile contribution to the world, than you are.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
Once someone has said what Wright said in those 4 minutes, it's up to him to provide proof that he didn't mean it, or was abjectly ashamed of saying it.
I'm not saying he didn't mean it, or didn't believe it. I'm not in any way attempting to refute it. I'm simply saying that I'm not one to make rash judgements, as others are, and 4 minutes of speeches are not conclusive proof of anyone's worthiness to be a pastor or their standing as a Christian. Personalities are simply far more complex than the parodies made of them. But my real purpose in addressing this goes more to what I posted above - if anyone REALLY cared about these issues, they'd ask McCain about Hagee and Robertson, because they've said almost exactly the same things that Wright did. Only, nobody asks about them. It's a double standard, and it's there precisely because nobody really cares about this; it's only yet another way to be right, to 'beat' your opponent, to manipulate the voters.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. - Albert Einstein
Patrick S wrote:
I'm simply saying that I'm not one to make rash judgements, as others are
Rash? If you have ponder the word, "Not God bless America, no no, God damn America", for more than a second before making a judgement then you must ponder through a rainstorm before opening an umbrella.
Patrick S wrote:
if anyone REALLY cared about these issues, they'd ask McCain about Hagee and Robertson
Asked and answered, pay attention. The critical points are that: the reveruuund Wright is Barack Huessein Obama's pastor, his mentor (a direct quote). Hagee and Robertson are not McCain's pastors's, they have simply endorsed him. But if those endorsements upset you, how are you with the Hamas' endorsement of Barack Hussein Obama ??? Just checking. and, fyi - I am not a McCain supporter, yet. He's a sell out on a couple of fronts: freedom of speech and immigration, and so far removed from conservative principles that there's little difference between he and Clinton. Point in fact, I'll be voting in the Democratic Primary, specifically so Clinton will get the nomination - then in November my choice of the lesser of 2 evils will be a tad easier.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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End the end we all get the same thing. Money.
The Digital World. It is an amazing place in which we primitive humans interact. Our flesh made this synthetic machine. You see, we are so smart, we know a lot of stuff. We were grown from cells that came from the universe, which the matter and physics I'm typing in it is amazing how the universe is working. Human life is very amazing. How I experience this sh*t its like wow.
CataclysmicQuantum wrote:
End the end we all get the same thing.
Not quite. For example at the end of my day, my wallet holds more than yours.
And when the sunlight hits the olive oil, don't hesitate.
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Tempest in a teakettle. I can't remember a presidential election where friends and associates of a front-running politician weren't dragged out by opponents in hope of casting doubt on his character. Democrats have spent rather a lot of time demonizing preachers who support Republicans, so the Wright thing seems only fair. Accusations of impropriety in business dealings are pretty much standard. Doesn't mean i think Obama is worth putting into office, but i don't see how any of this makes him weaker than the other candidates at this point. Probably the best point in that essay was the comment on how Obama managed to avoid much of this controversy for the bulk of his campaign; although it's hardly a novel opinion, it does ring true and perhaps indicates that he's either been extremely lucky in the past, or rather incautious of late. ...Or maybe it just means that the Democrats are really tucking it away at the buffet when it comes to eating their own now. :rolleyes:
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
Shog9 wrote:
I can't remember a presidential election...
when there was a candidate running I wanted to vote for since Richard Nixon, and I was too young to vote in that one. Why do the parties so consistently put forth the absolute worst possible members as candidates? Maybe a random draw from each of the registry lists would give us a better assortment of leaders. Better yet, let's do a draft. If you register, you become eligible for election, whether you want to run or not. Every two years we can hold a confidence vote, and if the public agrees the sitting leader is doing a good job, we give the poor boob time off for good behavior and elect another victim. If not, (s)he's stuck with the job for another 2 years.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"