Evolution works in mysterious ways

Matthew Faithfull

Zepplin turning into Ilion :laugh: The 2 sides of unreason I suppose. I'm sure they actually have much more in common than either would like to admit; Bright, angry, self important, utterly convinced of their own superiority of resonsing but not actually able to sustain an argument for more than 2 steps wihtout loosing their cool. Just you're average smart 7 years olds I suppose ;)

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

My words mean what they say, how about yours?

Yes, your words mean just that: nothing. Look, I don't care if you believe in God, the Great Turtle, the Garden Gnomes or the three Elves that make the popping sound in your Rice Krispies. Just stop pretending you have some kind of Magical Mystical Evidence (TM) that refutes the established fact that species evolve. It's irritating and sinks you to the level of the Great Idiot that I was forced to deal with the other day. Maybe you know the politics of the UKIP, maybe you've read the Bible, fine. What you have no understanding of is the theory of evolution. Just admit it and we can move on, or I can add you the list of morons on here that aren't worth acknowledging.

soap brain

Um, no, YOU'RE turning into Ilion. You're beginning to sound exactly like him. 73Zeppelin, on the other hand, is completely reasonable, and mostly in his right mind! :laugh:

Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Zepplin turning into Ilion

He meant you. I see you have the same reading comprehension/misrepresentation problem as Idiot. What is it with you fundies and your affinity for lies?

Oakman

Yes, I find it hard to give up on folks, even when their head has twisted all the way around and they're vomitting pea soup.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Christian Graus

Well, you're presenting an interesting dichotomy. What if not everyone who doesn't believe 100% in evolution believes in a young earth ? ( The Bible doesn't actually say that, BTW ).

Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )

Matthew Faithfull

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

Maybe you don't understand the word 'random'

Oh believe me I understand it very well, that's the whole point, random, undirected, arbitrary, stochastic, probabalistic and therefore destructive to a non random, useful, structured information set.

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

It adds ENERGY, which is used to build DNA, RNA, proteins, etc.

Which does not add information only increases the rate at which it is copied and thereby damaged, increase the solar activity and you get more rapid de-evolution :) Instead of assuming I don't understand basic scientific terms becuase that's easy, you should perhaps, as I said, set aside some time in your busy life to find out for yourself whether evolution is scientific or a dangerous pseudo religious delusion. ( Hint: asking someone subject to the delusion isn't going to teach you anything, try going about it scientifically :-D )

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Matthew Faithfull

73Zeppelin wrote:

Is it any wonder I have no patience for you and the other idiot?

No, but that's an issue you need to deal with. Patience is a hard lesson so be careful what you ask for.

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Oh believe me I understand it very well, that's the whole point, random, undirected, arbitrary, stochastic, probabalistic and therefore destructive to a non random, useful, structured information set.

Oh, you put words side by side alright. Too bad they don't mean anything. You wouldn't know a stochastic process if it hit you in the face. Anyways, interesting paragraph but the Law of Large Numbers and the Central Limit theorem prove you're wrong. Try harder next time.

73Zeppelin

I knew you wouldn't couldn't answer my questions. The reason? Because your remarks are meaningless and made up on the spot.

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

Well, you're presenting an interesting dichotomy

Again, it's a matter of whether the tool works.

Christian Graus wrote:

What if not everyone who doesn't believe 100% in evolution believes in a young earth

As long as it's a matter of belief, there will be an inability to accept facts that contradict what is believed. I personally don't believe in Evolution, I simply accept it as the best explanation possible. If there is a God that actually gives a damn about such things, then I would have to assume that He created the earth in such a way as to support the Theory of Evolution to such an extent that rejecting it might be a minor blasphemy Edit:

Christian Graus wrote:

The Bible doesn't actually say that

The quote regarding Giants is directly from the Bible, as I am sure you know.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Matthew Faithfull

:laugh: Never met anyone who can do that but have come across a few strange ones. How encouraging it is to know that my father is 'not willing that any should perish' and offers hope even to the worst of us. I for one will hold onto the hope that one day we will know completely, even as we are known. Perhaps I won't even miss the debate :)

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

R Giskard Reventlov

You believe in a god, do you not? Doesn't get any more fantasy based than that.

me, me, me

Matthew Faithfull

Perhaps it's not my voice you're hearing. :laugh:

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

Matthew Faithfull

73Zeppelin wrote:

I see you have the same reading comprehension/misrepresentation problem as Idiot.

A little unlikely to say the least.

73Zeppelin wrote:

What is it with you fundies and your affinity for lies?

Point to lie before uttering one at least please :confused:

"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

soap brain

Even if your dubious claims of 'de-evolution' were correct, how would that agree with the Bible?

Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.

Lost User

These are the ways a genome can change: Point mutation - change of one nucleotide to another - no information loss, can cause the acquisition of new features (e.g. antibiotic resistance) Insertion - insertion of 1+ nucleotides Deletion - removal of 1+ nucleotides Duplication - a gene can be duplicated Translocation - a gene can be placed under the control of another promoter Inversion - can have weird and interesting effects, but does appear to occur regularly Transformation/Conjugation - prokaryotes sharing genes or groups of genes Infection/Transduction - the integration of a viral genome - which can then be adapted to other purposes - see ERVs If I define 'information' as the number of functional genes in a species population's genome, then there are numerous ways that information increases. A gene is duplicated, mutates, is placed under the control of a different promoter so it is used for a different function. Very common if you believe the DNA evidence - but somehow I don't think you do. :laugh: Go BLAST it for yourself and see.

- F

73Zeppelin

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Point to lie before uttering one at least please

Perhaps "misrepresentation" is more appropriate. It was you suggesting Ravel was speaking about me. Forget it, it's not important.

Oakman

Fisticuffs wrote:

If I define 'information' as the number of functional genes in a species population's genome, then there are numerous ways that information increases. A gene is duplicated, mutates, is placed under the control of a different promoter so it is used for a different function.

Are you trying to confuse them with FACTS? :confused:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

soap brain

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Oh believe me I understand it very well, that's the whole point, random, undirected, arbitrary, stochastic, probabalistic and therefore destructive to a non random, useful, structured information set.

Not necessarily. Pathogens evolve a resistance to antibiotics.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Which does not add information only increases the rate at which it is copied and thereby damaged, increase the solar activity and you get more rapid de-evolution [Smile]

:confused: Nah. Anyway, the sun DOES communicate information. For example, it is yellow. But anyway, heat increases the rate of chemical reactions, but energy != heat.

Matthew Faithfull wrote:

Instead of assuming I don't understand basic scientific terms becuase that's easy, you should perhaps, as I said, set aside some time in your busy life to find out for yourself whether evolution is scientific or a dangerous pseudo religious delusion. ( Hint: asking someone subject to the delusion isn't going to teach you anything, try going about it scientifically [Big Grin] )

Evolution is very scientific. How isn't it? What I know about it is vastly different to the messed up picture you and Ilion like to paint of it. In fact, what you describe bears virtually no resemblance to Natural Selection.

Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.