This is a fucking disgrace
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
hell, as long as the foetus / child / person is still living at home or ugly or deformed or brain damaged from an accident or simply f***ing irritating - "adults" should have the right to snuff out the lil f***ers.
You certainly have the right to have that person removed from your home, don't you? That's what abortion is.
- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus
Al Beback wrote:
You certainly have the right to have that person removed from your home, don't you? That's what abortion is.
You have absolutely no right to kill (or have someone else kill) that person before or after removing them from your home. That's is what abortion is, too.
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No, the potential for life begins at conception.
Steve_Harris wrote:
Gary Kirkham: Life begins at conception. External viability is an irrelevant smoke screen. Steve_Harris: No, the potential for life begins at conception.
It always fascinates me, the blatant lies people will tell themselves to avoid admitting simple, obvious, and indisputable truth.
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Ummmm you do know that hes right on this one? http://www.snopes.com/science/nailgrow.asp[^]
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
as I understand it
You don't. I don't know why you skipped all your highschool biology classes, but between this and your views on evolution, I wonder why they gave you a diploma -- wait! Was it a church school???
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
You don't.
You're welcome to demonstrate that you do by posting something other than verbal abuse.
Oakman wrote:
I don't know why you skipped all your highschool biology classes,
No, what you clearly don't know is that I didn't.
Oakman wrote:
I wonder why they gave you a diploma
They didn't they gave me GCSEs and ALevels for what they're worth, not much probably.
Oakman wrote:
Was it a church school?
No. The only specialist biology teacher I ever had was a convinced evolutionist and he couldn't produce any evidence for it either.
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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Rob Graham wrote:
I question whether you are actually intelligent life...
Does that mean we can abort him? Post-partum?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Certainly we can, whether or not it would be moral to do so is a different argument (one on which I haven't expressed an opinion, as yet). ;P
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I have globs of the stuff and it works, ask my 2 kids.
I wasn't actually offering...:~
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
No, the potential for life exists in the individual egg and sperm. That potential is realized when the two are joined into one.
Actually given the number of spotaneous abortions that occur all the time, I'm not sure that the potential lasts long enough to be realized. God is the most active abortionist of all, you know.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Meh, people live and people die. Death is a natural part of life. It's when we decide the means of that death that we have more to answer for, not only to God, but to society as well. God, on the other hand, created us and if you accept the premise of His existence, then wouldn't it be reasonable to "allow" Him the right to decide our demise?
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Me blog, You read
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originSH wrote:
Ummmm you do know that hes right on this one?
Damn! Stop trying to confuse me with facts!!! :-O Sorry, Matthew.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
No problem I already flamed you right back. ;) Not having a good day today, hit myself in the eye with a tennis ball due to being an uncoordinated geek and can hardly see to read CP let alone do any useful work. :(
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
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An acorn is not an oak. It is a potential oak. In the same sense, a fertilised egg is a potential human being, it is not a human being.
Steve_Harris wrote:
An acorn is not an oak. It is a potential oak. In the same sense, a fertilised egg is a potential human being, it is not a human being.
Actually, an acorn *is* an oak tree -- all fertilized seeds (or, for a few species, dandelions for instance, _un-_fertilized seeds) are already a new individual plant. And a fertilised "egg" is not a potential human being, it *is* a human being.
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Rob Graham wrote:
As if the fetus could somehow ask for and obtain permission...or had any choice whatsoever in the matter.
Oh so the fetus' innocence makes all the difference. Is that your contorted thinking?
- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus
I made no such assertion. You, however, made a completely indefensible argument based on some perverse idea of a "right of occupancy" and "permission". The fact that you could only conjure up a very weak straw man in defense only confirms the absurdity of your original argument.
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Al Beback wrote:
You certainly have the right to have that person removed from your home, don't you? That's what abortion is.
You have absolutely no right to kill (or have someone else kill) that person before or after removing them from your home. That's is what abortion is, too.
Rob Graham wrote:
You have absolutely no right to kill (or have someone else kill) that person before or after removing them from your home. That's is what abortion is, too.
Let me ask you something. If doctors today had the technology to terminate a pregnancy by tranferring the fetus to an environment where he would very likely grow to a healthy child and beyond, would today's abortions still be legal? My point is that abortions result in the death of the fetus only because there's no other choice. You remove the fetus from the womb; it dies. The intent is to remove it, not to kill it.
- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus
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Their body cells continue to divide and reproduce, replacing worn out and dead cells. That they do not form a new individual is irrelevant. they live because their cells reproduce.
Rob Graham wrote:
Their body cells continue to divide and reproduce, replacing worn out and dead cells. That they do not form a new individual is irrelevant. they live because their cells reproduce.
What about hydra?
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I made no such assertion. You, however, made a completely indefensible argument based on some perverse idea of a "right of occupancy" and "permission". The fact that you could only conjure up a very weak straw man in defense only confirms the absurdity of your original argument.
Rob Graham wrote:
perverse idea of a "right of occupancy" and "permission".
Yes, I have the perverse idea that your body belongs to you, and the no one or nothing has a right to use it without your consent, even if when you deny them that right, they die. I will now ask you to refrain from brushing your teeth, as the bacteria that are on them were not capable of asking you to live and grow there.
- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus
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I wasn't actually offering...:~
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Rob Graham wrote:
perverse idea of a "right of occupancy" and "permission".
Yes, I have the perverse idea that your body belongs to you, and the no one or nothing has a right to use it without your consent, even if when you deny them that right, they die. I will now ask you to refrain from brushing your teeth, as the bacteria that are on them were not capable of asking you to live and grow there.
- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus
Al Beback wrote:
Yes, I have the perverse idea that your body belongs to you, and the no one or nothing has a right to use it without your consent
you gave your consent when you spread your legs, an open invitation.
Mike - typical white guy. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Rob Graham wrote:
You have absolutely no right to kill (or have someone else kill) that person before or after removing them from your home. That's is what abortion is, too.
Let me ask you something. If doctors today had the technology to terminate a pregnancy by tranferring the fetus to an environment where he would very likely grow to a healthy child and beyond, would today's abortions still be legal? My point is that abortions result in the death of the fetus only because there's no other choice. You remove the fetus from the womb; it dies. The intent is to remove it, not to kill it.
- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus
Al Beback wrote:
My point is that abortions result in the death of the fetus only because there's no other choice. You remove the fetus from the womb; it dies. The intent is to remove it, not to kill it.
Are you arguing that intent is the only basis for determining whether or not an act is right or wrong? And that even knowing the consequences is irrelevant if the intent was different? How can you say that there is no intent to kill when there is certainty that that will be one outcome of the act?
Al Beback wrote:
et me ask you something. If doctors today had the technology to terminate a pregnancy by tranferring the fetus to an environment where he would very likely grow to a healthy child and beyond, would today's abortions still be legal?
Speculative and irrelevant. One cannot judge existing acts by speculating on the development of some future technology that might change the outcome of the present act. One might as well ask "since that technology does not exist, why are todays abortions legal?".
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fat_boy wrote:
You dont suggest abortions up to 8 months and three weeks?
No, did you read my entire post?
- Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. - Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. - Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil? - Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Epicurus
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Oakman wrote:
Fat_Boy: When can it be stated that an individual exists, even IF they need a life support machine in the form of a womb to do so. Oakman: Then loan them yours.
It is a well known fact that infants cannot survive without the extensive (and adult-quality-of-life-ruining) "life support" supplied by adults. Therefore, IF a set of parents, so-called, choose to terminate their neonate because it's a bummer being at the constant beck-and-call of such a demanding (and unthankful!) individual, THEN no one else has the right to object that this is a wrong act ... unless these hypothetical objectors are *personally* able and willing to take on the unwelcome task. Brilliant! :rolleyes:
Ilíon wrote:
Therefore, IF a set of parents, so-called, choose to terminate their neonate because it's a bummer being at the constant beck-and-call of such a demanding (and unthankful!) individual, THEN no one else has the right to object that this is a wrong act ... unless these hypothetical objectors are *personally* able and willing to take on the unwelcome task.
That may be what you believe. Or it may be what you believe I believe. But you don't know I believe it (and since you are so laughably and simultaneously contemptibly wrong, you never will) - not that a lack of knowledge has ever stopped you from taking someone else to task just to exercise the sheer ugly shit-filled nastiness that you call a mind.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Life begins at conception. External viability is an irrelevant smoke screen.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
Life begins at conception. External viability is an irrelevant smoke screen.
And since Christians believe that the metaphysical "soul" enters the cells at conception since it is a human life, does that mean that when a zygote divides and forms twins that the twins will share one soul?
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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No problem I already flamed you right back. ;) Not having a good day today, hit myself in the eye with a tennis ball due to being an uncoordinated geek and can hardly see to read CP let alone do any useful work. :(
"The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)
Make sure you put really cold water on it for about 5 minutes at a time to keep the swelling down. Don't use ice unless you've got it proected in a couple of layers of cloth. Don't put hot water on it for at least 24 hours. . . .drink lots of chicken soup.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface