So Islam is a religion of peace
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leckey wrote:
I also agree on the non-violent Muslims. But being in such a rural area, where do I go to visit with other peaceful Muslims? Yeah, I could probably find something on the internet, but when it comes to religion, I think face to face is important.
I have daily contact with Muslim people. On the whole they're funny, caring, responsible and contribute to society. I guess you dont have that contact but what you do have is the brains to understand that what you see on the TV is not the reality.
leckey wrote:
As for the American military, they do the best they can with the intelligence given them. I do not deny that innocents were killed. My late father did two tours in Vietnam. Although we never talked about it, I saw the result of him killing people--"guilty" or otherwise. When it comes to strapping bombs, it's been at open areas such as bus stops and even universities. Why not focus on Israel military areas? Even rockets have hit close to schools. Again, not saying that Israel is 100% innocent--no one who has a military can say that.
My point was that both sides have, and continue to willfully kill innocent people which I think is wrong. We call it collateral damage. You can argue degrees and scale all day but a muslim woman greaving for the loss of her child to a US bomb is no different to a Jewish or American mother greaving the loss of her child to a terrorist bomb.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I guess the real question is, why do we assume all Muslims are the same as their lowest common denominator, but don't do the same for Christians ?
People like to like to call Islam violent and dangerous because they can single out a few verses in the Koran or Hadith that say to kill infidels, but the truth is the Old testament is full of similar or worse commandments from God. In fact, some of these commandments have been used as justifications for the inquisition. Source[^] Jesus did say that not one "jot or tittle" of the law will pass away until after Armageddon. I think what it boils down to is fundamental Islam is a few hundred years behind Christianity as far as watering down their religion.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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Wow, I swear you know WAYYYY too much about religion! :omg: ;)
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Phhh. I doubt it.
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Phhh. I doubt it.
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Why else would he devote so much attention to it? Then he goes on bashing Christianity, its like a homosexual pretending to be strait, bashing gays and all.
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leckey wrote:
I also agree on the non-violent Muslims. But being in such a rural area, where do I go to visit with other peaceful Muslims? Yeah, I could probably find something on the internet, but when it comes to religion, I think face to face is important.
I have daily contact with Muslim people. On the whole they're funny, caring, responsible and contribute to society. I guess you dont have that contact but what you do have is the brains to understand that what you see on the TV is not the reality.
leckey wrote:
As for the American military, they do the best they can with the intelligence given them. I do not deny that innocents were killed. My late father did two tours in Vietnam. Although we never talked about it, I saw the result of him killing people--"guilty" or otherwise. When it comes to strapping bombs, it's been at open areas such as bus stops and even universities. Why not focus on Israel military areas? Even rockets have hit close to schools. Again, not saying that Israel is 100% innocent--no one who has a military can say that.
My point was that both sides have, and continue to willfully kill innocent people which I think is wrong. We call it collateral damage. You can argue degrees and scale all day but a muslim woman greaving for the loss of her child to a US bomb is no different to a Jewish or American mother greaving the loss of her child to a terrorist bomb.
I agree that grief is grief, and that death and pain suck. But there is a large difference between blowing up a bomb in the middle of a group of civilians on purpose, and dropping one on a valid target, where there are civilians nearby, versus taking a head shot on a bad guy. I can see where you will say the dead won't see the difference, or their loved ones, but intent does count for something. But 'collateral damage' is a BS word for death and damage. Call a spade a spade.
Learn to write self marginalizing code! Call 1-888-BAD-CODE ------------------ Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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Wow, I swear you know WAYYYY too much about religion! :omg: ;)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Wow, I swear you know WAYYYY too much about religion! [OMG] [Wink]
Not that much, but I've done quite a bit of reading about it to get ammo for debating with Christians.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Wow, I swear you know WAYYYY too much about religion! [OMG] [Wink]
Not that much, but I've done quite a bit of reading about it to get ammo for debating with Christians.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
I find they're not usually in the mood for a debate, at least not the more outspoken ones. Not what I would call a debate, at least.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I guess the real question is, why do we assume all Muslims are the same as their lowest common denominator, but don't do the same for Christians ?
People like to like to call Islam violent and dangerous because they can single out a few verses in the Koran or Hadith that say to kill infidels, but the truth is the Old testament is full of similar or worse commandments from God. In fact, some of these commandments have been used as justifications for the inquisition. Source[^] Jesus did say that not one "jot or tittle" of the law will pass away until after Armageddon. I think what it boils down to is fundamental Islam is a few hundred years behind Christianity as far as watering down their religion.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
DemonPossessed wrote:
Source[^] Jesus did say that not one "jot or tittle" of the law will pass away until after Armageddon.
Actually, He said: Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Parse Before A B will not happen Before C Is that an "AND" construct, or an "OR" construct? :confused: I have a belief, but you seem to have a certainty. :| Mind open like a rusty trap?
Learn to write self marginalizing code! Call 1-888-BAD-CODE ------------------ Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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I find they're not usually in the mood for a debate, at least not the more outspoken ones. Not what I would call a debate, at least.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Not what I would call a debate, at least.
Most of the time they will either constantly make unsupported claims and pretend they are assumed to be right, or try to meticulously pick apart one small piece of what the other person said.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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I agree that grief is grief, and that death and pain suck. But there is a large difference between blowing up a bomb in the middle of a group of civilians on purpose, and dropping one on a valid target, where there are civilians nearby, versus taking a head shot on a bad guy. I can see where you will say the dead won't see the difference, or their loved ones, but intent does count for something. But 'collateral damage' is a BS word for death and damage. Call a spade a spade.
Learn to write self marginalizing code! Call 1-888-BAD-CODE ------------------ Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
RichardM1 wrote:
the middle of a group of civilians on purpose, and dropping one on a valid target, where there are civilians nearby
No doubt you've heard the saying about one mans freedom fighter is another terrorist. The same could be said about targets.
RichardM1 wrote:
versus taking a head shot on a bad gu
Thats a very valid difference. I've no doubt the allied forces would prefer that sollution where possible but they're not shy about the alternative either. And fair enough, war is war after all but we did kind of pick the fight in Iraq.
RichardM1 wrote:
But 'collateral damage' is a BS word for death and damage. Call a spade a spade.
Exactly
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What he said was blatant disrespect to the people who are risking their lives, dying, struggling to maintain, for people like you and me. As if the those solders are the bad guys for defending America after islamics destroyed the twin towers and damaged the Pentegon killing thousands of innocent men, women, and children in the process. He actually gives sympathy for those scumbags.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Not what I would call a debate, at least.
Most of the time they will either constantly make unsupported claims and pretend they are assumed to be right, or try to meticulously pick apart one small piece of what the other person said.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
Yeah, like, sometimes they'll sneakily call one thing another and refuse to explain their thought process. As if a faulty syllogism could ever pass off as an argument... :doh: *cough cough* Oh! What have I accidentally found here? :confused: IF 'materialism' is the truth about the nature of reality, THEN minds (or 'souls' if you prefer that word) cannot exist. BUT minds do exist. THEREFORE, 'materialism' (and 'physicalism,' and 'naturalism,' and 'atheism,' and 'agnosticism') is clearly seen to be false. It must be so easy to debate when your only aim is to impress yourself.
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What he said was blatant disrespect to the people who are risking their lives, dying, struggling to maintain, for people like you and me. As if the those solders are the bad guys for defending America after islamics destroyed the twin towers and damaged the Pentegon killing thousands of innocent men, women, and children in the process. He actually gives sympathy for those scumbags.
Um, no he didn't. He just acknowledged that we're not the only ones suffering. In fact, if you look at it properly, the innocents on their side are WAY more screwed-over. The militants and terrorists never deserve sympathy, but all of the people that they're hurting should be regarded with something more than hatred.
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Um, no he didn't. He just acknowledged that we're not the only ones suffering. In fact, if you look at it properly, the innocents on their side are WAY more screwed-over. The militants and terrorists never deserve sympathy, but all of the people that they're hurting should be regarded with something more than hatred.
Its their country(s), their people, their religion. If they can't maintain their own people then they will suffer the consequences. The simple fact is that is islam that motivates them to do these things, if they can't take control then they need to evacuate. Its their own fault, it sure as hell isn't non-islamic people's fault, or America's. Just think about how they treat their own women and children.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Um, no he didn't.
Oh yes he did. I would seriously punch him in the face for it too.
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Yeah, like, sometimes they'll sneakily call one thing another and refuse to explain their thought process. As if a faulty syllogism could ever pass off as an argument... :doh: *cough cough* Oh! What have I accidentally found here? :confused: IF 'materialism' is the truth about the nature of reality, THEN minds (or 'souls' if you prefer that word) cannot exist. BUT minds do exist. THEREFORE, 'materialism' (and 'physicalism,' and 'naturalism,' and 'atheism,' and 'agnosticism') is clearly seen to be false. It must be so easy to debate when your only aim is to impress yourself.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
It must be so easy to debate when your only aim is to impress yourself.
True, and Ilion and Matthew Faithfull seem to think they can win a debate just by frustrating the other person to the point of giving up.
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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Its their country(s), their people, their religion. If they can't maintain their own people then they will suffer the consequences. The simple fact is that is islam that motivates them to do these things, if they can't take control then they need to evacuate. Its their own fault, it sure as hell isn't non-islamic people's fault, or America's. Just think about how they treat their own women and children.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Um, no he didn't.
Oh yes he did. I would seriously punch him in the face for it too.
It's that simple, huh?
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It's that simple, huh?
Damn right it is. Don't forget islam is filthy moldy shit to begin with, it does not matter if there are innocents. Its like being a child molester (mohammad) living in a society where that is accepted and you live with similar people, and expecting people to tolerate it because its who you are.