Caucus to Obama: Amnesty or No Latino Vote
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jgasm wrote:
i hear Brazil is doing well...they have no national debt and are investing in foreign markets as well as building a highway across the amazon? is that true?
Hmmm, yes and no. The economy is growing a lot, particularly the agriculture sector. And they are also discovering a lot of oil in the seashore. The environment is what anguishes me. I am affiliated to an environmental NGO and we are very scared of the political growth of the agriculture. Loggers and farmers are becomming very powerfull in the congress, particularly in the oposition parties. OTH the government is very inefective when it comes to control deforestation in the Amazon. They seem to be begginning to act a little more now, but it remains to be seen. The highway will not be across the Amazon, it is just in the northwest part of it, to connect the country with the Pacific Ocean, to ease exports to Asia. I don't think it will be that serious. Brazil already made a huge highway through the Amazon, 30 years ago. But since the maintenance of roads is very hard there (lots of very heavy rains) the older highway is vanishing slowly. And with rising prices of oil it will not be so easy to export things to Asia. The main problem is the steady devastation on the jungle borders by loggers and farmers.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Diego Moita wrote:
The main problem is the steady devastation on the jungle borders by loggers and farmers.
this is constantly being discussed in our media and financial markets. people wondering if they (powers that be) will enforce regulations or if the commercial entities will be allowed mostly free reign.
Diego Moita wrote:
The environment is what anguishes me.
i can understand that. no turning back once the damage is done.
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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That's a smart move. Obama shouldn't count on hispanic vote very easily, just by assuming he is the less of 2 evils. There are 2 reasons why the hispanic vote is important: 1) It may make a difference in some swing states (e.g.: Florida). 2) It is the fastest growing electorate; therefore it may become key to hold a long run majority in congress.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Diego Moita wrote:
Obama shouldn't count on hispanic vote very easily, just by assuming he is the less of 2 evils.
Actually, since McCain introduced the previous "comprehensive immigration reform" bill with Kennedy, and has refused to change his position on this on the campaign trail, Obama might well be seen as the greater evil in this regard. He needs to promise a path to citizenship just to be even with McCain on this issue.
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Okay, not to say you're wrong that it doesn't matter...but that is one of the problems the american people have with the system is that the popular vote doesn't carry the weight it should at the presidential level but you are correct, numbers do help with congressional and electoral representation. so i gave you a 5 for knowing longevity and sustainability as a political leader involves the concern for a rising minority. i hear Brazil is doing well...they have no national debt and are investing in foreign markets as well as building a highway across the amazon? is that true?
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
jgasm wrote:
that is one of the problems the american people have with the system is that the popular vote doesn't carry the weight it should at the presidential level
hold on there skippy, it has worked quite well for how many years? If not for the electoral college, California / New York and Texas would be the USA and the other 47 states would be damn glad they kept their hand guns.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Ilíon wrote:
al gore won the popular vote yet he didn't end up president. it is not simply a numbers game. *gladly unloads this one on the Brite Lites of the left*
Bush popular vote: 50,456,002 Gore popular vote: 50,999,897 Do the math
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Bush popular vote: 50,456,002 Gore popular vote: 50,999,897 Do the math
I've "done the math:" and the answer is that you're habitually dishonest, and so transparent at it. I spent several posts talking about the vote that matters, the Electoral College vote, and you image that your attemt to muddy the waters matters?
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Oakman wrote:
Bush popular vote: 50,456,002 Gore popular vote: 50,999,897 Do the math
I've "done the math:" and the answer is that you're habitually dishonest, and so transparent at it. I spent several posts talking about the vote that matters, the Electoral College vote, and you image that your attemt to muddy the waters matters?
Ilíon wrote:
I've "done the math:" and the answer is that you're habitually dishonest, and so transparent at it.
It's dishonest to point out that Al Gore won the popular vote? Maybe the Federal Government needs to change their archives.gov web page since you are of course the authority on the matter. http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/2000/popular_vote.html[^]
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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Ilíon wrote:
What you're probably overlooking -- though assuredly, the Democrats have not, for they have been importing "voters" for a long time -- is that Congressional representation (and consequently, Electoral College vote) is not allocated by the numbers of citizens, much less by the numbers of actual voters, but by the numbers of residents as reported in the Census.
While everything you say is true (although I'm not sure the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's members would like being called Democrats) what does it have to do with the number of votes Obama will get? While it may be that New Mexico or Texas may have a couple of extra electoral votes because of their demizens instead of citizens, if the registered Hispanic voters sit on their hands or vote for McCain, who can certainly make some claim to be in favor of amnesty, those same electoral votes will not go to Obama. N'est-ce pas?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
While everything you say is true (although I'm not sure the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's members would like being called Democrats) what does it have to do with the number of votes Obama will get? While it may be that New Mexico or Texas may have a couple of extra electoral votes because of their demizens instead of citizens, if the registered Hispanic voters sit on their hands or vote for McCain, who can certainly make some claim to be in favor of amnesty, those same electoral votes will not go to Obama. N'est-ce pas?
You're a "troll:" you're intellectually dishonest (i.e. you're a liar); you have no interest in getting at the truth about anything ... and then you want to whine because I treat your behavior exactly as it deserves.
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jgasm wrote:
that is one of the problems the american people have with the system is that the popular vote doesn't carry the weight it should at the presidential level
hold on there skippy, it has worked quite well for how many years? If not for the electoral college, California / New York and Texas would be the USA and the other 47 states would be damn glad they kept their hand guns.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
I'm not saying it doesn't work...but generally that's what most people complain about that feel "their vote doesn't count" because they don't realize the importance of all the other elections in the years. Most people only think about 1 election and that's the presidential one.
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) must commit to helping illegal immigrants achieve citizenship or else risk losing the vital Latino vote in the general election, Hispanic Democratic lawmakers are warning.
Well, of course Hispanics are going to say that. It is called lobbying. According to this Wall Street Journal poll, Obama currently has better than a 2 to 1 advantage over McCain with Hispanics. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121322048693265737.html[^] Here is Obama on immigration issues: http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060403-floor_statement_3/[^] I don't think Hispanics need to lobby him very hard on the issue.
John Carson
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Ilíon wrote:
I've "done the math:" and the answer is that you're habitually dishonest, and so transparent at it.
It's dishonest to point out that Al Gore won the popular vote? Maybe the Federal Government needs to change their archives.gov web page since you are of course the authority on the matter. http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/2000/popular_vote.html[^]
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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DemonPossessed wrote:
Ilíon: I spent several posts talking about the vote that matters, the Electoral College vote, and you image that your attem[p]t to muddy the waters matters? DemonChow: It's dishonest to point out that Al Gore won the popular vote?
Actually it goes more like this.
Ilíon wrote:
Oakman: Bush popular vote: 50,456,002 Gore popular vote: 50,999,897 Do the math Ilion: I've "done the math:" and the answer is that you're habitually dishonest, and so transparent at it. DemonChow: It's dishonest to point out that Al Gore won the popular vote?
I'm a Christian: I *know* that I'm perverted. - Ilion
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Oakman wrote:
Bush popular vote: 50,456,002 Gore popular vote: 50,999,897 Do the math
I've "done the math:" and the answer is that you're habitually dishonest, and so transparent at it. I spent several posts talking about the vote that matters, the Electoral College vote, and you image that your attemt to muddy the waters matters?
Ilíon wrote:
I spent several posts talking about the vote that matters,
So? Jgasm pointed out that the popular vote and the electoral vote didn't match. I provided the numbers. You have a problem with the numbers? You don't think the numbers are right? You want the numbers to go away? Tough.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
While everything you say is true (although I'm not sure the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's members would like being called Democrats) what does it have to do with the number of votes Obama will get? While it may be that New Mexico or Texas may have a couple of extra electoral votes because of their demizens instead of citizens, if the registered Hispanic voters sit on their hands or vote for McCain, who can certainly make some claim to be in favor of amnesty, those same electoral votes will not go to Obama. N'est-ce pas?
You're a "troll:" you're intellectually dishonest (i.e. you're a liar); you have no interest in getting at the truth about anything ... and then you want to whine because I treat your behavior exactly as it deserves.
Ilíon wrote:
and then you want to whine because I treat your behavior exactly as it deserves.
Not me. You're the one who keeps looking for sympathy because I laugh at you and demonstrate just how far off the mark you are and describe your failings as a human in detail and ask you embaressing questions Indeed, so far, you seem to have a lot of trouble dealing with my behavior in any manner - other that repeating your few shopworn epithets that you hurl at everyone who disagrees with you.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Oakman wrote:
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) must commit to helping illegal immigrants achieve citizenship or else risk losing the vital Latino vote in the general election, Hispanic Democratic lawmakers are warning.
Well, of course Hispanics are going to say that. It is called lobbying. According to this Wall Street Journal poll, Obama currently has better than a 2 to 1 advantage over McCain with Hispanics. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121322048693265737.html[^] Here is Obama on immigration issues: http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060403-floor_statement_3/[^] I don't think Hispanics need to lobby him very hard on the issue.
John Carson