Craziness
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I just came across this[^] article and the upshot is that foreign politicians feel empowered to demand that Ireland ratify the Treaty of Lisbon; if not they are just going to ignore the no-vote. I'm not trying to throw stones here. But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote? More over, I really cant see how anyone could defend forcing the treaty onto anybody.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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I just came across this[^] article and the upshot is that foreign politicians feel empowered to demand that Ireland ratify the Treaty of Lisbon; if not they are just going to ignore the no-vote. I'm not trying to throw stones here. But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote? More over, I really cant see how anyone could defend forcing the treaty onto anybody.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote?
Not at all - ask Napoleon or Hitler.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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I just came across this[^] article and the upshot is that foreign politicians feel empowered to demand that Ireland ratify the Treaty of Lisbon; if not they are just going to ignore the no-vote. I'm not trying to throw stones here. But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote? More over, I really cant see how anyone could defend forcing the treaty onto anybody.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
And pro-Europeans wonder why so many people in the UK are anti-EU...:rolleyes:
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I just came across this[^] article and the upshot is that foreign politicians feel empowered to demand that Ireland ratify the Treaty of Lisbon; if not they are just going to ignore the no-vote. I'm not trying to throw stones here. But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote? More over, I really cant see how anyone could defend forcing the treaty onto anybody.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
"All animals votes are equal, but some animals votes are more equal than others"
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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I just came across this[^] article and the upshot is that foreign politicians feel empowered to demand that Ireland ratify the Treaty of Lisbon; if not they are just going to ignore the no-vote. I'm not trying to throw stones here. But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote? More over, I really cant see how anyone could defend forcing the treaty onto anybody.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
While a very strong Federal Europe dreamer this must be the biggest piece of retardness he could have poured out of his fried paper pushing brain. But you can't blame the bureaucracy of the EU/Lisbon treaty on the people that made it, it's all paranoia, every country is afraid of every other country, of what each may try to gain over the rest so every paper pusher in there just adds more crap to make sure that if his country won't be the one to gain, none of the others will. Not much of a bright future.
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I just came across this[^] article and the upshot is that foreign politicians feel empowered to demand that Ireland ratify the Treaty of Lisbon; if not they are just going to ignore the no-vote. I'm not trying to throw stones here. But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote? More over, I really cant see how anyone could defend forcing the treaty onto anybody.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
Didn't read the article, so I take your word for it. It really doesn't make my piss boil, the whole idea of the union is to create a common ground, and it is an ongoing process that will eventually lead to a blur of current known borders and legal institutions. If every single memberstate continues to demand special treatment whenever the next baby step towards unification occurs, then the whole project is doomed. I'm not a hardcore pro union guy myself, but I can understand why the majority of nations, including the largest, would rather exclude the smaller ones if they keep vetoing progress.
"God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr
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I just came across this[^] article and the upshot is that foreign politicians feel empowered to demand that Ireland ratify the Treaty of Lisbon; if not they are just going to ignore the no-vote. I'm not trying to throw stones here. But doesn't coercing and forcing a government onto people who have clearly rejected it remove it's legitimacy or at very least call into question the intentions of those attempting circumvent the results of the no-vote? More over, I really cant see how anyone could defend forcing the treaty onto anybody.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
From the article:
Mr Giscard d'Estaing also admitted that, unlike his original Constitutional Treaty, the Lisbon EU Treaty had been carefully crafted to confuse the public. "What was done in the [Lisbon] Treaty, and deliberately, was to mix everything up. If you look for the passages on institutions, they're in different places, on different pages," he said.
:wtf: I'd certainly say no thank you if anyone brought something like that my way.
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Didn't read the article, so I take your word for it. It really doesn't make my piss boil, the whole idea of the union is to create a common ground, and it is an ongoing process that will eventually lead to a blur of current known borders and legal institutions. If every single memberstate continues to demand special treatment whenever the next baby step towards unification occurs, then the whole project is doomed. I'm not a hardcore pro union guy myself, but I can understand why the majority of nations, including the largest, would rather exclude the smaller ones if they keep vetoing progress.
"God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr
jan larsen wrote:
the whole idea of the union is to create a common ground,
By (nations that didn't let their citizens vote on it) forcing it down the throats of those who don't want it (and did let their citizens say so)? Some "common ground". Sounds a lot more like tyranny to me.
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Didn't read the article, so I take your word for it. It really doesn't make my piss boil, the whole idea of the union is to create a common ground, and it is an ongoing process that will eventually lead to a blur of current known borders and legal institutions. If every single memberstate continues to demand special treatment whenever the next baby step towards unification occurs, then the whole project is doomed. I'm not a hardcore pro union guy myself, but I can understand why the majority of nations, including the largest, would rather exclude the smaller ones if they keep vetoing progress.
"God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr
jan larsen wrote:
If every single memberstate continues to demand special treatment whenever the next baby step towards unification occurs, then the whole project is doomed.
I have a hard time accepting the idea that 'citizen approval' of a treaty that impacts the sovereignty of a nation as special treatment.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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While a very strong Federal Europe dreamer this must be the biggest piece of retardness he could have poured out of his fried paper pushing brain. But you can't blame the bureaucracy of the EU/Lisbon treaty on the people that made it, it's all paranoia, every country is afraid of every other country, of what each may try to gain over the rest so every paper pusher in there just adds more crap to make sure that if his country won't be the one to gain, none of the others will. Not much of a bright future.
Dexterus wrote:
every country is afraid of every other country, of what each may try to gain over the rest so every paper pusher in there just adds more crap to make sure that if his country won't be the one to gain, none of the others will. Not much of a bright future.
Well, I think it is a very difficult thing to ask a group of citizens to accept laws and governance from a group of people not even in the same country.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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jan larsen wrote:
If every single memberstate continues to demand special treatment whenever the next baby step towards unification occurs, then the whole project is doomed.
I have a hard time accepting the idea that 'citizen approval' of a treaty that impacts the sovereignty of a nation as special treatment.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
And that is the case exactly. sovereignity. The whole point of a union is to unite. And that inevitably means loss of sovereignity. To be fair, you have to acknowledge that it isn't the EU that decides whether the government of a memberstate leave the choice to the voters. One could argue though that the EU could set up that member states should always hear their citizens on such issues, but that would require that the parliament had balls...
"God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr