An American Life Worth Less Today
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From the article: The "value of a statistical life" is $6.9 million in today's dollars, the Environmental Protection Agency reckoned in May — a drop of nearly $1 million from just five years ago. Consider, for example, a hypothetical regulation that costs $18 billion to enforce but will prevent 2,500 deaths. At $7.8 million per person (the old figure), the lifesaving benefits outweigh the costs. But at $6.9 million per person, the rule costs more than the lives it saves, so it may not be adopted. ---------------------------------- http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=5353888[^] well it is higher than i thought they would claim i am worth :)
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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From the article: The "value of a statistical life" is $6.9 million in today's dollars, the Environmental Protection Agency reckoned in May — a drop of nearly $1 million from just five years ago. Consider, for example, a hypothetical regulation that costs $18 billion to enforce but will prevent 2,500 deaths. At $7.8 million per person (the old figure), the lifesaving benefits outweigh the costs. But at $6.9 million per person, the rule costs more than the lives it saves, so it may not be adopted. ---------------------------------- http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=5353888[^] well it is higher than i thought they would claim i am worth :)
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
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it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
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Potato bugs disgust me. But, they are merely acting according to their nature, and cannot be expected to ignore the plants which i hold dear on their own...
Citizen 20.1.01
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'
you are deemed no longer a productive member of the community, please follow me so we can recycle your organs for a more profitable member.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
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you are deemed no longer a productive member of the community, please follow me so we can recycle your organs for a more profitable member.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
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it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
First off, profit was not at all involved. We're talking here of a rather Socialist approach to the prioritization of spending other people's money (tax revenues). Capitalists would look at lost profits or opportunity cost, not the "value" of lives saved versus enforcement cost... That measure is bureaucratic voodoo anyway, given the large variation in the two different estimates.
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From the article: The "value of a statistical life" is $6.9 million in today's dollars, the Environmental Protection Agency reckoned in May — a drop of nearly $1 million from just five years ago. Consider, for example, a hypothetical regulation that costs $18 billion to enforce but will prevent 2,500 deaths. At $7.8 million per person (the old figure), the lifesaving benefits outweigh the costs. But at $6.9 million per person, the rule costs more than the lives it saves, so it may not be adopted. ---------------------------------- http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=5353888[^] well it is higher than i thought they would claim i am worth :)
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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I dont really see whaty point you are making. Insurance companies have always put a finite value on a life for actuarial modeling
all i said was: "well it is higher than i thought they would claim i am worth" take from it what you want i guess.
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
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it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
You also put profit ... moreover your own "selfish" profit ... before "people." Consider: Everyone knows that the greater the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the greater the number of fatalities in automobile accidents (as collisions are so charmingly called). And, conversely, the lower the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the lower the number of fatalities in automobile accidents. And, for that matter, the lower the number of collisions, in the first place. THEREFORE ... we should reduce the MAXIMUM legal speed on ALL streets and highways to 5 miles per hour. With this speed limit in force, there will be almost no traffic fatalities anywhere in the US, as compared to the above 40,000 we currently "enjoy." WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY? It would be asinine to top the maximum legal speed limit everywhere in the US at 5mph? Why is that? Why would this be asinine? We'd be saving perhaps 43,000 lives per year[^]! What is it that YOU are valuing above the lives of up to 43,000 human beings ... per year? It is, of course, that you are valuing *your* time -- and all profit you hope to gain in expending that time as you see fit -- above the potential loss of lives of other human beings. edit: Just in case it wasn't clear -- I am assuredly not faulting you for this "selfishness" on your part (you will notice, I hope, that I put ironic scare-quotes around both pseudo-accusations that you are selfish). I am trying to explain and illustrate to you that your "disgust" at "capitalism" is quite unfounded ... and is, in fact, most irrational.
modified on Monday, July 14, 2008 11:03 PM
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DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
You also put profit ... moreover your own "selfish" profit ... before "people." Consider: Everyone knows that the greater the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the greater the number of fatalities in automobile accidents (as collisions are so charmingly called). And, conversely, the lower the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the lower the number of fatalities in automobile accidents. And, for that matter, the lower the number of collisions, in the first place. THEREFORE ... we should reduce the MAXIMUM legal speed on ALL streets and highways to 5 miles per hour. With this speed limit in force, there will be almost no traffic fatalities anywhere in the US, as compared to the above 40,000 we currently "enjoy." WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY? It would be asinine to top the maximum legal speed limit everywhere in the US at 5mph? Why is that? Why would this be asinine? We'd be saving perhaps 43,000 lives per year[^]! What is it that YOU are valuing above the lives of up to 43,000 human beings ... per year? It is, of course, that you are valuing *your* time -- and all profit you hope to gain in expending that time as you see fit -- above the potential loss of lives of other human beings. edit: Just in case it wasn't clear -- I am assuredly not faulting you for this "selfishness" on your part (you will notice, I hope, that I put ironic scare-quotes around both pseudo-accusations that you are selfish). I am trying to explain and illustrate to you that your "disgust" at "capitalism" is quite unfounded ... and is, in fact, most irrational.
modified on Monday, July 14, 2008 11:03 PM
Ignoring the people (kids mainly) killed in reversing accidents in driveways etc, this is a great analogy. 5.
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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Ignoring the people (kids mainly) killed in reversing accidents in driveways etc, this is a great analogy. 5.
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
Ignoring the people (kids mainly) killed in reversing accidents in driveways etc, ...
I implicitly acknowledged such (I said there would be few automobile fatalities, not none at all, with such a universal-within-the-US absolute speed limit).
_Damian S_ wrote:
... this is a great analogy. 5.
Thank you. What I offered is a crude/emotional ... or perhaps 'visceral' is a better word to use here ... illustration of how it is, and how and why it must be, that we attempt to place monetary value on human lives. When "capitalists" attempt to calculate the monetary value of human lives, they are attempting to refine and rationalize and quantify the above visceral understanding so that we may wisely use this knowledge -- which any intelligent/rational person knows if he but thinks for a moment, rather than emotes -- in deciding how to allocate our always limited and finite resources. You may recall some weeks ago my explanation of the relationship between money and time -- specifically, that the "value" which money *really* represents is time, for time is the universal currency by which all things in our lives are produced, measured, allocated, etc. This analogy is related to that understanding of what money really is.
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it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people
Any intelligent fool can announce what disgusts him. It takes a touch of genius and a big pair of balls to stfu and do something to make the world a better place.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people
Any intelligent fool can announce what disgusts him. It takes a touch of genius and a big pair of balls to stfu and do something to make the world a better place.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
And some wonder why I complain...
“If we are all in agreement on the decision - then I propose we postpone further discussion of this matter until our next meeting to give ourselves time to develop disagreement and perhaps gain some understanding of what the decision is all about.”-Alfred P. Sloan
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DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
You also put profit ... moreover your own "selfish" profit ... before "people." Consider: Everyone knows that the greater the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the greater the number of fatalities in automobile accidents (as collisions are so charmingly called). And, conversely, the lower the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the lower the number of fatalities in automobile accidents. And, for that matter, the lower the number of collisions, in the first place. THEREFORE ... we should reduce the MAXIMUM legal speed on ALL streets and highways to 5 miles per hour. With this speed limit in force, there will be almost no traffic fatalities anywhere in the US, as compared to the above 40,000 we currently "enjoy." WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY? It would be asinine to top the maximum legal speed limit everywhere in the US at 5mph? Why is that? Why would this be asinine? We'd be saving perhaps 43,000 lives per year[^]! What is it that YOU are valuing above the lives of up to 43,000 human beings ... per year? It is, of course, that you are valuing *your* time -- and all profit you hope to gain in expending that time as you see fit -- above the potential loss of lives of other human beings. edit: Just in case it wasn't clear -- I am assuredly not faulting you for this "selfishness" on your part (you will notice, I hope, that I put ironic scare-quotes around both pseudo-accusations that you are selfish). I am trying to explain and illustrate to you that your "disgust" at "capitalism" is quite unfounded ... and is, in fact, most irrational.
modified on Monday, July 14, 2008 11:03 PM
Ilíon wrote:
Everyone knows that the greater the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the greater the number of fatalities in automobile accidents
actually many many years ago that was proven not to be true on the Autobahn and then the number of people driving increased and it all changed. So, while your above statement is true eventually even if you lower the speed limit to 5mph it won't matter. It's like the ladder theory----more deaths are attributed to falling off a 6 foot ladder as opposed to a 12 foot ladder. Smaller(or less) is not always better. So, to wrap this up, size does matter. :-D :-D :-D
Don't take any wooden nickels.
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DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
You also put profit ... moreover your own "selfish" profit ... before "people." Consider: Everyone knows that the greater the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the greater the number of fatalities in automobile accidents (as collisions are so charmingly called). And, conversely, the lower the average speed at which we collectively travel on the streets and highways, the lower the number of fatalities in automobile accidents. And, for that matter, the lower the number of collisions, in the first place. THEREFORE ... we should reduce the MAXIMUM legal speed on ALL streets and highways to 5 miles per hour. With this speed limit in force, there will be almost no traffic fatalities anywhere in the US, as compared to the above 40,000 we currently "enjoy." WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY? It would be asinine to top the maximum legal speed limit everywhere in the US at 5mph? Why is that? Why would this be asinine? We'd be saving perhaps 43,000 lives per year[^]! What is it that YOU are valuing above the lives of up to 43,000 human beings ... per year? It is, of course, that you are valuing *your* time -- and all profit you hope to gain in expending that time as you see fit -- above the potential loss of lives of other human beings. edit: Just in case it wasn't clear -- I am assuredly not faulting you for this "selfishness" on your part (you will notice, I hope, that I put ironic scare-quotes around both pseudo-accusations that you are selfish). I am trying to explain and illustrate to you that your "disgust" at "capitalism" is quite unfounded ... and is, in fact, most irrational.
modified on Monday, July 14, 2008 11:03 PM
Can't find the strip, a transcript will have to do[^] Milo: I understand my opponent supports the 55 miles per hour speed limit on our highways. Opus: Saves 50,000 lives per year. I'm definitely in favor of saving lives! Milo: Then maybe my opponent would like to save another 30,000 lives per year by reducing the speed limit to 45. Opus: 45? Milo: Or perhaps save another 25,000 lives by reducing the speed limit to 35! Opus: Well, 35 is pretty slow. Milo: Apparently my opponent would send 55,000 men women and children to fiery mangled deaths so he can zip along to his manicurist at 55! Opus: I DON'T HAVE A MANICURIST! Milo: He probably doesn't. Most mass murderers don't. Hitler didn't. Opus: STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT! Milo: Rebuttal? Opus: Uh... Bush is a wimp.
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Can't find the strip, a transcript will have to do[^] Milo: I understand my opponent supports the 55 miles per hour speed limit on our highways. Opus: Saves 50,000 lives per year. I'm definitely in favor of saving lives! Milo: Then maybe my opponent would like to save another 30,000 lives per year by reducing the speed limit to 45. Opus: 45? Milo: Or perhaps save another 25,000 lives by reducing the speed limit to 35! Opus: Well, 35 is pretty slow. Milo: Apparently my opponent would send 55,000 men women and children to fiery mangled deaths so he can zip along to his manicurist at 55! Opus: I DON'T HAVE A MANICURIST! Milo: He probably doesn't. Most mass murderers don't. Hitler didn't. Opus: STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT! Milo: Rebuttal? Opus: Uh... Bush is a wimp.
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Fisticuffs wrote:
[nothing, really]
If all one wants is schtick, then Fisticuffs is your man[^]. However, if one wishes to think rationally about such matters, then one is well advised to look elsewhere[^].
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Fisticuffs wrote:
[nothing, really]
If all one wants is schtick, then Fisticuffs is your man[^]. However, if one wishes to think rationally about such matters, then one is well advised to look elsewhere[^].
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DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people
Any intelligent fool can announce what disgusts him. It takes a touch of genius and a big pair of balls to stfu and do something to make the world a better place.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
oh dear :sigh: you must be the guy that puts the rant in soapbox off topic rants?
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
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it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." -Albert Einstein
DownUnderDev wrote:
it is disgusting to me that capitalism puts profit before people....
That's because you're a whinging socialist.
I'm the ocean. I'm a giant undertow.