Another dictator who didn't learn from past
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Actually, I agree with you in some points you have made. I know you are suprised. US had a very good relationship with musharaf and the world recoginized his rule. So whats next? Are you going to a democratic election? Who is the most popular candidate to win? moderate or Extremist?
Why election when there is already a party in power?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
moderate or Extremist?
depends on how do you define a Moderate or extremist. Musharraf was a left wing extremist for the country who wanted to enforce his rules in Pakistan to make it another Turkey. Irony is that apart from other countries, Turkey is also not willing to give him a long stay.
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Why election when there is already a party in power?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
moderate or Extremist?
depends on how do you define a Moderate or extremist. Musharraf was a left wing extremist for the country who wanted to enforce his rules in Pakistan to make it another Turkey. Irony is that apart from other countries, Turkey is also not willing to give him a long stay.
Who elects Presidents in Pakistan? Parliament or direct vote from the people? A moderate in the Arab/Islamic world is defined as someone who shows willingness to promote dialog over conflict with different cultures/religions. A moderate also condemns targetting of civilians and works with international governments in support of international Security. Moderates support freedom of speech and human rights as defined globally in the UN. Thats what I can think of right now.
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And thanks for your dumb answer. your shoe size IQ could produce only this sentence.
Hey, at least I can read the Qu'ran in Arabic. You can't do that, infidel.
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pseudonym67 wrote:
US played no part in Mushy siezing control
how sure you could be? by keeping the history in mind, I am sure US was well aware about military coup back in 99.
I've been well aware of many many things I had no hand in. What's your point?
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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fat_boy wrote:
true dictator
what do you mean by True here? was not saddam a dictator?
fat_boy wrote:
Like Stalin and Pol Pot you mean?
have no idea about them as such.
fat_boy wrote:
Actually Musharaf was more popular than many of your past leader
Like what? I would like to know what out siders think about his positive achievements.
fat_boy wrote:
you want to revert to a feudal system then fair enough
certainly you guys have no friggin idea about Pakistani politics. Musharraf created a party which was purely Feudal based because democracy and dictatorship can't lie in same slot. Apart from his party PML(Q), the other party in Karachi MQM which is controlled from his London exiled Chief is also a dictator party since only one man decides the fate of every issue of party so in reality Mush had only supported feudals who could speak his tone.
fat_boy wrote:
we wonl;t stand in the way pf your devolvement.
well nothing will change as such but definitely it would be a bit better anyway in near or far future since he was the only who screwed up every institute, from Judiciary to Army just to show loyalty to his allies.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
was not saddam a dictator?
And did he bow to public pressure?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
have no idea about them as such.
Then you are not qualified ot comment on dictators as a whole.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Like what? I would like to know what out siders think about his positive achievements.
Judging by his speech, a deent motorway system for one.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
certainly you guys have no friggin idea about Pakistani politics
A Q Khan? Urenco in Holland? I think you will find we know far more about your nukes than you give us credit for. At least the sentient amongst us that is.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
because democracy and dictatorship can't lie in same slot
Who ever said democracy was inherently the best system? A benign dictator is far cheaper, and effective.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
well nothing will change
OK, lets hope so eh?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Hey, at least I can read the Qu'ran in Arabic. You can't do that, infidel.
Ok then say Lahol Wala quat Illah Billah and get spoofed.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
was not saddam a dictator?
And did he bow to public pressure?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
have no idea about them as such.
Then you are not qualified ot comment on dictators as a whole.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Like what? I would like to know what out siders think about his positive achievements.
Judging by his speech, a deent motorway system for one.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
certainly you guys have no friggin idea about Pakistani politics
A Q Khan? Urenco in Holland? I think you will find we know far more about your nukes than you give us credit for. At least the sentient amongst us that is.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
because democracy and dictatorship can't lie in same slot
Who ever said democracy was inherently the best system? A benign dictator is far cheaper, and effective.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
well nothing will change
OK, lets hope so eh?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
And did he bow to public pressure?
since when a dictator start noticing Public pressure? he got dishearted after having no support by Army internally and cold attitude of US,Saudia and UK.
fat_boy wrote:
A Q Khan? Urenco in Holland?
He is not a politician.
fat_boy wrote:
I think you will find we know far more about your nukes than you give us credit for
and I am not surprised.
fat_boy wrote:
Who ever said democracy was inherently the best system?
Better than dictatorship. Atleast ruler is responsible to answer to parliment. The reason US-India deal is not getting done easily is due to democracy and their PM is not free to decide on his own. If it was Musharraf orany other dictator, he would have signed the deal with US along with some % of commission for his efforts.
fat_boy wrote:
A benign dictator is far cheaper, and effective.
For those who use him(e.g; US)
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
was not saddam a dictator?
And did he bow to public pressure?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
have no idea about them as such.
Then you are not qualified ot comment on dictators as a whole.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Like what? I would like to know what out siders think about his positive achievements.
Judging by his speech, a deent motorway system for one.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
certainly you guys have no friggin idea about Pakistani politics
A Q Khan? Urenco in Holland? I think you will find we know far more about your nukes than you give us credit for. At least the sentient amongst us that is.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
because democracy and dictatorship can't lie in same slot
Who ever said democracy was inherently the best system? A benign dictator is far cheaper, and effective.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
well nothing will change
OK, lets hope so eh?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
A benign dictator is far cheaper, and effective.
Trouble is, they almost all decide to have their sons inherit the job. And sons of dictators don't seem to inherit their father's benignity. Of course, you can have a strong praetorian guard to winnow out the losers.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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dont worry about Pakistan. Think about saving the ass of yours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Um how many coffins so far? around 100,000 now(officially)?
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Who elects Presidents in Pakistan? Parliament or direct vote from the people? A moderate in the Arab/Islamic world is defined as someone who shows willingness to promote dialog over conflict with different cultures/religions. A moderate also condemns targetting of civilians and works with international governments in support of international Security. Moderates support freedom of speech and human rights as defined globally in the UN. Thats what I can think of right now.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Who elects Presidents in Pakistan?
parliament.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
promote dialog over conflict with different cultures/religions.
He killed those who didn't speak his language. Many were sent to Gitmo for sake of few dollars. Recent scandal of Afia Siddiqi is enough to hang him.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
A moderate also condemns targetting of civilian
he rather handed over civilians to US.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Moderates support freedom of speech
He rather banend channels when they were covering news of chief Justice of Pakistan.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
n support of international Security
Oh yeah like any other dictator he tried his best to save US by every mean.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
human rights as defined globally in the UN
In his era women were tortured and abused by Policemen. there are pics available on Internet.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Thats what I can think of right now.
Hence he's not moderate.
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So another dictator surrendered. This time Musharraf. The dictator who was the strongest leader in Pakistani history quit like a rat when his allies back in Washington finally showed his back and he got no option. Ironically Musharraf is not being accepted by his FRIENDS country, US,UK,KSA or even TURKEY where he spent Childhood and considered his Vatican of Secularism since he is a fan of Ataturk. I Don't claim I know a lot about world dictators but observed few in my country and then guys like Saddam. One thing seems common in all. They are initially fed by US for US interest. America cunningly pampers them initially and make then feel that they are the best by providing them all kind of aid and support, then America use them for its own interest as long as they are giving output. Once they start failing, America show them back as if they they were never known. SO it's Zia or Saddam or Musharraf. They tasted similar fate despite of being educated and knowing history of past dictators. They never remember that America is just like a "client" for a prostitute. As long as prostitute has charm, she is blessed but once she loses all charm, she's thrown away like a used condom. Now if stupid prostitute starts dreaming of being a "wife" of her client then it's not client fault. I wonder why these dictators don't learn at all. Why is it so hard or is really power and money so magical that it makes one dumb enough that one even forget to use its mind. quite surprising and confusing as well.
Just so you're reminded of the questions you haven't answered, which is the reason I keep starting threads and trying to restart the discussion Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Very easy, by noticing conflict. for instance if there is an article in which a block is coded as: if(condtion){ foo++; } and then there is another article with your name where I find: if(condtion){foo=foo+1;} OK - I give up. What sources do you rely on to know what Jesus really said, as opposed to what others claim He said ? Adnan Siddiqi wrote: If there was no such errors in Bible, there was no reason to 'Islam' was sent on earth. And yet, the existance of the New Testament does not assume any errors in the OId. Instead it assumes a God whose will had been accurately recorded, and was being fulfilled. That's where Christianity assumes a more powerful God than Islam, one who is able to make sure that His will is accurately preserved and presented to future generations. Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Now God as a Product Owner knew that His product was not transferred properly and people had screwed it up after certain period. Thus he sent another manager with same product(the message) with new cover(Quran now). The message is same but different cover. OK - but you have to either reject the New Testament, or reject the Quran, they are mutually incompatible. You reject the New Testament, fair enough. But on what basis do you then not reject Jesus also ? Adnan Siddiqi wrote: So when GOd had capability to send Messengers from ADam to Jesus then how all of a sudden God could become incapable that He could not Muhammad(SAW)? Because Mohammed is both not needed ( in that Jesus fulfilled God's plan ) and does not add anything of value, unless the New Testament and Jesus are both a sham. Islam is completely against the God presented in the New Testament. Adnan Siddiqi wrote: c but don't underestimate your God I don't. I believe that He was able to preserve His Word, and I see how if Jesus was not real, then given that Mohammed did not fulfill the old testament prophecies fulfilled by Jesus, the God of Islam is one who cannot keep His promises. Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Even in Bible you have read that God could do anything when He could produce Jesus from Virgin Mary(AS). I'm not sure of your point here. I am not limiting God except in the way He limits Himself ( by assuming He keeps His Word )
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your q
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dont worry about Pakistan. Think about saving the ass of yours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Um how many coffins so far? around 100,000 now(officially)?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
dont worry about Pakistan
Oh, we won't, it's just another country waiting to be paved into a parking lot.
Member number three million seven hundred seventy two thousand nine hundred sixty three
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Who elects Presidents in Pakistan?
parliament.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
promote dialog over conflict with different cultures/religions.
He killed those who didn't speak his language. Many were sent to Gitmo for sake of few dollars. Recent scandal of Afia Siddiqi is enough to hang him.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
A moderate also condemns targetting of civilian
he rather handed over civilians to US.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Moderates support freedom of speech
He rather banend channels when they were covering news of chief Justice of Pakistan.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
n support of international Security
Oh yeah like any other dictator he tried his best to save US by every mean.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
human rights as defined globally in the UN
In his era women were tortured and abused by Policemen. there are pics available on Internet.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Thats what I can think of right now.
Hence he's not moderate.
I did not refer to Mushara as moderate or not. I meant the next candidate(s).
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Who elects Presidents in Pakistan?
parliament.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
promote dialog over conflict with different cultures/religions.
He killed those who didn't speak his language. Many were sent to Gitmo for sake of few dollars. Recent scandal of Afia Siddiqi is enough to hang him.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
A moderate also condemns targetting of civilian
he rather handed over civilians to US.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Moderates support freedom of speech
He rather banend channels when they were covering news of chief Justice of Pakistan.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
n support of international Security
Oh yeah like any other dictator he tried his best to save US by every mean.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
human rights as defined globally in the UN
In his era women were tortured and abused by Policemen. there are pics available on Internet.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Thats what I can think of right now.
Hence he's not moderate.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Many were sent to Gitmo for sake of few dollars
Only 82 prisoners at Gitmo were Pakistani. I guess not a lot of money changed hands, huh?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Oh yeah like any other dictator he tried his best to save US by every mean
You've already admitted you no absolutely nothing about some of the worst dictators of this or the last century. It is possible of course that in your local madras "dictator" translates as leader of a country that doesn't hate the U.S.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Ok then say Lahol Wala quat Illah Billah and get spoofed.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Lahol Wala quat Illah Billah
Can't even get THAT right, can you. The CORRECT phrase is: Lahol Wala quwata Illah Billah, infidel dog. How dare you soil the language of God with your filthy tongue. For your education, it means: There is no power, no strength except from Allah. Which is, of course, another of your lies.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Lahol Wala quat Illah Billah
Can't even get THAT right, can you. The CORRECT phrase is: Lahol Wala quwata Illah Billah, infidel dog. How dare you soil the language of God with your filthy tongue. For your education, it means: There is no power, no strength except from Allah. Which is, of course, another of your lies.
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Who elects Presidents in Pakistan?
parliament.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
promote dialog over conflict with different cultures/religions.
He killed those who didn't speak his language. Many were sent to Gitmo for sake of few dollars. Recent scandal of Afia Siddiqi is enough to hang him.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
A moderate also condemns targetting of civilian
he rather handed over civilians to US.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Moderates support freedom of speech
He rather banend channels when they were covering news of chief Justice of Pakistan.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
n support of international Security
Oh yeah like any other dictator he tried his best to save US by every mean.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
human rights as defined globally in the UN
In his era women were tortured and abused by Policemen. there are pics available on Internet.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Thats what I can think of right now.
Hence he's not moderate.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Recent scandal of Afia Siddiqi
A family member ?
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Lahol Wala quat Illah Billah
Can't even get THAT right, can you. The CORRECT phrase is: Lahol Wala quwata Illah Billah, infidel dog. How dare you soil the language of God with your filthy tongue. For your education, it means: There is no power, no strength except from Allah. Which is, of course, another of your lies.
Adnan must have been getting spoofed when he wrote that. I guess he babbles in many tongues...
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I'm still wondering what he thinks spoofed means.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Who knows - he chooses these words at random, I'm sure.
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fat_boy wrote:
A benign dictator is far cheaper, and effective.
Trouble is, they almost all decide to have their sons inherit the job. And sons of dictators don't seem to inherit their father's benignity. Of course, you can have a strong praetorian guard to winnow out the losers.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Trouble is, they almost all decide to have their sons inherit the job. And sons of dictators don't seem to inherit their father's benignity.
Often the case. I am contstantly reminded of the benefit of a benign dictator by the stories of the 'enlightened despots' of middle europe in the 19th century. As counts of small autonomous regions, on deciding to introduce reforms such as democracy the peasantry cried out that they didnt want change, they wanted to be governed by the incumbent method; an absolout monarch who cared for his people, protected them, and ran an effective government. The king of Thailand I believe has a similar standing today. Its a cracking system benign dictatorship if only one can find the right person to do the job.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription